Lufthansa Private Jet Management change
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Upset all round
You guys really are having a hard time if you are so worked up!! Corporate cheerleader maybe, but one of the ones that helped build the company that employs you, so stop moaning.
Without corporate cheerleaders you wouldnt have any customers and therefore no where to fly, so wake up and smell the caffeine!!! your place has the biggest team of corporate cheerleaders in the playground.
As for not answering any questions, "Somebody told me that VJ excists by the grace of Canadian Export credit for the Bombardier products and selling young aircraft at a profit and rich russians... Now that the quick profits on airframes are gone as well as the Russians who will fill the holes and how deep are his pockets? "
Answers:" There are no holes, and bloody deep ".... but we dont rely on cash in, we are self sustaining.
"somebody told me" ............you need to talk to better somebodies
DJ101
Without corporate cheerleaders you wouldnt have any customers and therefore no where to fly, so wake up and smell the caffeine!!! your place has the biggest team of corporate cheerleaders in the playground.
As for not answering any questions, "Somebody told me that VJ excists by the grace of Canadian Export credit for the Bombardier products and selling young aircraft at a profit and rich russians... Now that the quick profits on airframes are gone as well as the Russians who will fill the holes and how deep are his pockets? "
Answers:" There are no holes, and bloody deep ".... but we dont rely on cash in, we are self sustaining.
"somebody told me" ............you need to talk to better somebodies
DJ101
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Again I see my fellow workers writting with that superior face. Guys, you embarrass us all with this behaviour. Stop beleiving the indoc bullsh**. Just because they tell us we are the best of the best does not make it so and does not give us the right to act like it in public.
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Deskjockey 101. You obviously are not able to read between the lines are you. Are we not having a discussion about Netjets? The problem solving example was within Netjets, Ie at some point past or present been involved with an NJE office based duty! Is that simple enough language for you. So this time you have side stepped my question by your INCORRECT assumption i am threatening you. So i put my question to you for a third time WHERE DO YOUR NUMBERS COME FROM, or have you just made them up.
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VJ
Guys, this DJ can say whatever he wants (he is a cheerleader, its what they do - scream and shake fury balls), the fact is their model doesnt work, all of their aircraft are parked in Vko (ive seen it myself yeasterday) and all their flights are normal charters on a very discounted rates, knowing very well the prices of VKO, AOCs of 604/605 and L60 + all their aircraft are financed, and after ive seen few of their quotes, the losing a MASSIVE amount of money, so the only one question is how much money they have to lose. But as i know the quality of on-board service is falling down, they piss off o lot of brokers and the trying to renegotiate delivery times with Bombardier.
so DJ change your tone, you gona look smarter
so DJ change your tone, you gona look smarter
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Which specific numbers
SB, lets get specific, which numbers are you talking about? Just to help you here's a reasonably comprehensive list.
The fleet size (and aircraft composition) was published by NJ in a magazine article on RD and W(B)K (about 3 months ago), and just to be "belt and braces" this is public knowledge on the CS register.
Customer numbers are public knowledge, as published by NJ. Share sizes (1/8th, 1/16th etc...) public knowledge and in the brochure.
All other information is sent directly to me via various sources (you dont have to be a genius to work out where from). The business model hasnt changed since the purchase of MJ in 2003/4, the lease rate is in the contract and aircraft values fluctuate for all of us.
In order to make an intelligent comment about any business (excluding 4 years of internal experience) what else do you need to know....
If i had any negative intention there are a number of cheeky, possibly semi true, received wisdom type statements that i could peddle, but i have no interest in malicious gossip. It is in everybodies interest that Nj survive and prosper as you do 90% of business aviations retail advertising, which helps the industry as a whole, and now youre going into the airport business that opens up a whole new aspect to the operation.
So take some advice, I am more positive about you and your company than a % of the people who work there, so i would suggest you focus your attention on the things you can solve, and ignore the ones you cant, and stop sounding like an old woman....."Smeagals Boyfriend"??? "Smeagals mother in law more like"!!!!
The fleet size (and aircraft composition) was published by NJ in a magazine article on RD and W(B)K (about 3 months ago), and just to be "belt and braces" this is public knowledge on the CS register.
Customer numbers are public knowledge, as published by NJ. Share sizes (1/8th, 1/16th etc...) public knowledge and in the brochure.
All other information is sent directly to me via various sources (you dont have to be a genius to work out where from). The business model hasnt changed since the purchase of MJ in 2003/4, the lease rate is in the contract and aircraft values fluctuate for all of us.
In order to make an intelligent comment about any business (excluding 4 years of internal experience) what else do you need to know....
If i had any negative intention there are a number of cheeky, possibly semi true, received wisdom type statements that i could peddle, but i have no interest in malicious gossip. It is in everybodies interest that Nj survive and prosper as you do 90% of business aviations retail advertising, which helps the industry as a whole, and now youre going into the airport business that opens up a whole new aspect to the operation.
So take some advice, I am more positive about you and your company than a % of the people who work there, so i would suggest you focus your attention on the things you can solve, and ignore the ones you cant, and stop sounding like an old woman....."Smeagals Boyfriend"??? "Smeagals mother in law more like"!!!!
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Lets get serious
GEXRS
"He's a cheerleader.......It's what they do........scream and shake fury balls" At least the office get a laugh out of that!!!!
Their model??, you mean the charter model!!! if thats the case then we are all f***ed!!
The only thing we do differently is that we dont have to take our aircraft home to meet the demands of the owner, therefore we dont have to put fuel in it to fly it empty!!!!! It's just not that complicated!!
With thinking like yours, is it any wonder business aviation is thought of as a cottage industry.......
If you want to have a serious conversation, PM me with your mobile and i'll call you back, then there will be no more secrets!!!!!!
DJ101
"He's a cheerleader.......It's what they do........scream and shake fury balls" At least the office get a laugh out of that!!!!
Their model??, you mean the charter model!!! if thats the case then we are all f***ed!!
The only thing we do differently is that we dont have to take our aircraft home to meet the demands of the owner, therefore we dont have to put fuel in it to fly it empty!!!!! It's just not that complicated!!
With thinking like yours, is it any wonder business aviation is thought of as a cottage industry.......
If you want to have a serious conversation, PM me with your mobile and i'll call you back, then there will be no more secrets!!!!!!
DJ101
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"Guys, this DJ can say whatever he wants (he is a cheerleader, its what they do - scream and shake fury balls), the fact is their model doesnt work, all of their aircraft are parked in Vko (ive seen it myself yeasterday) and all their flights are normal charters on a very discounted rates, knowing very well the prices of VKO, AOCs of 604/605 and L60 + all their aircraft are financed, and after ive seen few of their quotes, the losing a MASSIVE amount of money, so the only one question is how much money they have to lose. But as i know the quality of on-board service is falling down, they piss off o lot of brokers and the trying to renegotiate delivery times with Bombardier."
Laughing.
I am a broker and i work with VJ quite a lot. More than 60 flights - no complain at all, not on catering, not on timetable, when the a/c gone tech they provided replacement (CL604 instead of LR60) without extra cost and timetable suffering.
Of course i believe that they started now to be little bit more economic with catering, but still it is much better comparing to NetJets
Most important all of non-standard catering wishes are fullfilled. Operation dep. is also very good, one time we did quite hard Mid-Asia flight (receiving overflight and landing permit in Kirgiztan, Turkmenistan and Kazakh) just for 4 hours.
Of course i still have to control them as any other operator (its broker job), but i still like this guys. They give good prices, but they are flying a lot, and i dont think they are loosing money, as they try to sell up every empty sector and they are quite succesfull with it.
There is nothing strange that operators a/c are parked in their homebase, if you go to any of NetJets bases you will see the same.
NetJets IMO quite bad with service, we had many complaints about them, and their share prices are much less attractive than regular charter. And one more simple thing about NJ: if you sell 16 shares for a/c in the peak period you have no availability. In that case they just _LIE_ to clients about "slots, permits, bla bla bla" and i catched them number of times, because when i applied to the same airport with different operator a/c - i ve always received slots.
For instance - one year ago client wanted to do New Year trip to European ski resort with his family including small children on Falcon. From VKO he departed with 4 hour delay due to late arrival of the a/c. On the trip back they offered him to split his family and fly on two Hawker 400 XP as they told that (guess what?) airport dont have slots for Falcon...
But NetJets have really powerful business model, as it is based on very powerful marketing, and they keep gaining new clients - because people who become rich suddenly and are non experienced in that industry and cannot count all the hidden things in their contract - they are easily convinced by their sales, because they have really good marketing.
Laughing.
I am a broker and i work with VJ quite a lot. More than 60 flights - no complain at all, not on catering, not on timetable, when the a/c gone tech they provided replacement (CL604 instead of LR60) without extra cost and timetable suffering.
Of course i believe that they started now to be little bit more economic with catering, but still it is much better comparing to NetJets
Most important all of non-standard catering wishes are fullfilled. Operation dep. is also very good, one time we did quite hard Mid-Asia flight (receiving overflight and landing permit in Kirgiztan, Turkmenistan and Kazakh) just for 4 hours.
Of course i still have to control them as any other operator (its broker job), but i still like this guys. They give good prices, but they are flying a lot, and i dont think they are loosing money, as they try to sell up every empty sector and they are quite succesfull with it.
There is nothing strange that operators a/c are parked in their homebase, if you go to any of NetJets bases you will see the same.
NetJets IMO quite bad with service, we had many complaints about them, and their share prices are much less attractive than regular charter. And one more simple thing about NJ: if you sell 16 shares for a/c in the peak period you have no availability. In that case they just _LIE_ to clients about "slots, permits, bla bla bla" and i catched them number of times, because when i applied to the same airport with different operator a/c - i ve always received slots.
For instance - one year ago client wanted to do New Year trip to European ski resort with his family including small children on Falcon. From VKO he departed with 4 hour delay due to late arrival of the a/c. On the trip back they offered him to split his family and fly on two Hawker 400 XP as they told that (guess what?) airport dont have slots for Falcon...
But NetJets have really powerful business model, as it is based on very powerful marketing, and they keep gaining new clients - because people who become rich suddenly and are non experienced in that industry and cannot count all the hidden things in their contract - they are easily convinced by their sales, because they have really good marketing.
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"In Europe, by buying MJ the number of customers with guranteed availability (the key phrase) have gone up by a factor of 2, and thus NJE have potentially 32 (32 x 25hrs = 800hrs) guaranteed availability customers per aircraft. In reality the average number is around 12 (double that of NJ US)."
Continues
"this is a significant problem"
Those ones
Continues
"this is a significant problem"
Those ones
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And..........
SB, not sure which part of this you dont understand? The US NJ model is around 6 Guaranteed Availability owners per airframe, NJEU around 11-12, (150 planes, 1600 customers) !!!!!
PM me if anything is not clear!!
PM me if anything is not clear!!
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DJ, Pushkin
Im not saying that VJ is bad company, but please dont compare VJ and NetJets. NJ its financialy much more solid airline than VJ, globaly presented and with more than 700 planes around, their model works for 20 years and they have very good finansial advisors (Warren B). VJ is new company with some cash that they loosing very quikly (pushkin take your callculator and you will see it) with 20 aircraft with most of them right now working specifictly for russian market, VJ announsed their card programm 10 months ago, and it means you couldnt sell a lot of fractions. So we can can conclude that you carry a lot of mashinery that not only loosing money, but also depriciate very quickly in the carent market enviroment. im not a supporter of NJ model, cos it expencieve for a customer, but they dont have your problems because luckely for them most of their planes are sold and they dont have so much exposure.
but basically privat jet market is F......
Im not saying that VJ is bad company, but please dont compare VJ and NetJets. NJ its financialy much more solid airline than VJ, globaly presented and with more than 700 planes around, their model works for 20 years and they have very good finansial advisors (Warren B). VJ is new company with some cash that they loosing very quikly (pushkin take your callculator and you will see it) with 20 aircraft with most of them right now working specifictly for russian market, VJ announsed their card programm 10 months ago, and it means you couldnt sell a lot of fractions. So we can can conclude that you carry a lot of mashinery that not only loosing money, but also depriciate very quickly in the carent market enviroment. im not a supporter of NJ model, cos it expencieve for a customer, but they dont have your problems because luckely for them most of their planes are sold and they dont have so much exposure.
but basically privat jet market is F......
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2 GEXRS: I agree that NetJets is more solid, but VJ is really much better in all terms - pricing, aircraft and quality, so i wish them to survive this.
I think VJ owners are not so stupid as well, and i am sure that they will get all possible support from Bombardier as they are one of largest customers, so if they will be busted, Bombardier also will be affected. I dont know how much money they loose, but last year in summer they earned quite not bad. Today their prices is still profitable, because price of fuel, etc, also gone down and i think crew salaries will also go down.
And i disagree that market is "*****ed up", the market is going down but it opens new opportunities - some people are buying a/c now when you dont need to wait 5 years to get new a/c, and the prices has gone significantly less.
I think VJ owners are not so stupid as well, and i am sure that they will get all possible support from Bombardier as they are one of largest customers, so if they will be busted, Bombardier also will be affected. I dont know how much money they loose, but last year in summer they earned quite not bad. Today their prices is still profitable, because price of fuel, etc, also gone down and i think crew salaries will also go down.
And i disagree that market is "*****ed up", the market is going down but it opens new opportunities - some people are buying a/c now when you dont need to wait 5 years to get new a/c, and the prices has gone significantly less.
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Its a shame
If you think it's all f****d then i feel sorry for the people who employ you!
P.S. Try booking a NJ plane in China, or KL or anywhere east, and then when you cant, give us a call!!
P.S. Try booking a NJ plane in China, or KL or anywhere east, and then when you cant, give us a call!!
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indeed
...there is no way comparing vj to nje, therfore I recommend even not to react for any of this "oh we are so good" phrases of so called "vj story tellers", its not worth to react , just my thoughts! The glass is half full, not half empty, hope for all in the business the best, but please dont try to post wrong facts about nje , try to solve your problems, I guess you have enough!
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DJ 101.....you said this
As I understand it, every team member is working very hard because there aren't many members of staff left and they certainly dont believe in the company!!!
As for the produce, yes I may be inclined to agree. The VJ product is good compared to most others and I believe VJ will ride out the current global crisis but to move forward alot has to happen, like clear and well thought of management decisions.
Working hard, working hard and more working hard............
That just about sums it up. Every member of the team is putting in an extraordinary amount of time and effort as we believe we have a great company, a fantastic and unique owner and a great product.
I dont believe that 110% exists, but if it did the VJ team are giving it.
That just about sums it up. Every member of the team is putting in an extraordinary amount of time and effort as we believe we have a great company, a fantastic and unique owner and a great product.
I dont believe that 110% exists, but if it did the VJ team are giving it.
As for the produce, yes I may be inclined to agree. The VJ product is good compared to most others and I believe VJ will ride out the current global crisis but to move forward alot has to happen, like clear and well thought of management decisions.
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Excellent result
I am encoraged that we (Capt/GEXRS and I) all agree.
Bravo chaps and well said
"The VJ product is good compared to most others and I believe VJ will ride out the current global crisis"
I knew youd come round in the end!
DJ101
Bravo chaps and well said
"The VJ product is good compared to most others and I believe VJ will ride out the current global crisis"
I knew youd come round in the end!
DJ101
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His dudeness:
Possible redundancies could always be part of necessary re-structuring of the company rather than an indication of how 'well' a company is doing.... ?
Are not ALL commercial operators looking at how they can improve efficiency in thier companies, particularly in the current climate ?
Possible redundancies could always be part of necessary re-structuring of the company rather than an indication of how 'well' a company is doing.... ?
Are not ALL commercial operators looking at how they can improve efficiency in thier companies, particularly in the current climate ?
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Wigan, sure is. However I was a little sarcastic, Pushkin said:
Today their prices is still profitable, because price of fuel, etc, also gone down and i think crew salaries will also go down.
The crew salaries are going down. To Zero for some.
Today their prices is still profitable, because price of fuel, etc, also gone down and i think crew salaries will also go down.
The crew salaries are going down. To Zero for some.