ProLine 21
Join Date: May 2007
Location: USA
Age: 61
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I have never like the auto capture function on this equipment. Its inconsistent.
I prefer the old method of switching to green needles from white and verfiying capture on both left and right seats.
To much automation eliminates the cross checking that is so fundamental to good cockpit operations.
I prefer the old method of switching to green needles from white and verfiying capture on both left and right seats.
To much automation eliminates the cross checking that is so fundamental to good cockpit operations.
ECON cruise, LR cruise...
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: MIRSI hold - give or take...
Age: 52
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PL21 is a good basic system...
However, compared to what you get in airliners - unnecessarily complicated and with limited sensor input.
I thought the inability to capture and track a LOC cleanly was due to us flying a small piece of kit with just 2 x AHRS iso 3 x ADIRU. However, reading Mad Russian's comments, it seems like PL21 FCCs don't take actual track info into account. The prominence that the guys and girls designing it placed on track info is probably best illustrated by how that info is presented - a tiny green dot, for
sake...
Have found the AutoTransfer reliable - only problems I have seen is when people don't let it do its own thing. However, have noticed that transfer to capture is very late - way after you'd have captured it in green needles. If on arrival usually not a problem, but staying in magenta during RV is not something I'd recommend.
The entire thing about having to switch to magenta needles to get LNAV is just daft - hasn't improved one little bit since I flew a B1900D 7 years ago... Again, looking at how it's done in a 777/330 wouldn't have hurt at all. Embedded LNAV for the next update, thanks! Would get rid of all that auto-switching / manual switching melakee as well in one, fell swoop.
Oh, and the EADI - for crying out loud, it's as small as in a 73CL or an ATR! Large format, thanks - 777/330-style again. BIG and EASY to read. DME read-out relocated to near primary scan as well, thanks.
...in fact, rip the entire installation out of a 73NG (incl. the excellent FMS) and throw it in instead - then we're getting somewhere!
However, compared to what you get in airliners - unnecessarily complicated and with limited sensor input.
I thought the inability to capture and track a LOC cleanly was due to us flying a small piece of kit with just 2 x AHRS iso 3 x ADIRU. However, reading Mad Russian's comments, it seems like PL21 FCCs don't take actual track info into account. The prominence that the guys and girls designing it placed on track info is probably best illustrated by how that info is presented - a tiny green dot, for
sake... Have found the AutoTransfer reliable - only problems I have seen is when people don't let it do its own thing. However, have noticed that transfer to capture is very late - way after you'd have captured it in green needles. If on arrival usually not a problem, but staying in magenta during RV is not something I'd recommend.
The entire thing about having to switch to magenta needles to get LNAV is just daft - hasn't improved one little bit since I flew a B1900D 7 years ago... Again, looking at how it's done in a 777/330 wouldn't have hurt at all. Embedded LNAV for the next update, thanks! Would get rid of all that auto-switching / manual switching melakee as well in one, fell swoop.
Oh, and the EADI - for crying out loud, it's as small as in a 73CL or an ATR! Large format, thanks - 777/330-style again. BIG and EASY to read. DME read-out relocated to near primary scan as well, thanks.
...in fact, rip the entire installation out of a 73NG (incl. the excellent FMS) and throw it in instead - then we're getting somewhere!
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Canada
Age: 43
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I have been flying the Pro-Line 21 for about a year now in a King Air 350. I agree with what most others have said on here. It sure does not like VFR flying in the mountains below the terrain! Doesn't seem to shut up sometimes 
Cheers
Cheers
I have deleted most of the PM , so canīt contact all of you that have asked me for a copy.
I forgot to put the manuel of the FMS on to the server. Done that now.
Inbalance
I forgot to put the manuel of the FMS on to the server. Done that now.
Inbalance
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Australia
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Hi,
I am currently a CPL pilot about to start a King Air IFR course,I was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction to download the Pro Line 21 FMS trainer (I gave inbalance a PM but no luck for 2 weeks now).
I am also wondering if there are CBT copies available for the actually PFD and ND of the Pro Line 21 (something similar to the Garmin G1000 trainer?).
Thanks
.
w627
I am currently a CPL pilot about to start a King Air IFR course,I was wondering if someone could point me in the right direction to download the Pro Line 21 FMS trainer (I gave inbalance a PM but no luck for 2 weeks now).
I am also wondering if there are CBT copies available for the actually PFD and ND of the Pro Line 21 (something similar to the Garmin G1000 trainer?).
Thanks
.w627
.Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida
Age: 51
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Anyone since, had any success locating a King Air 350 Proline 21 FMS guide or even a flightdeck companion equivalent? Closest I have found was a Pilot Manual from Collins (2in binder) for $42. Heading to FSI in a couple months, any help would be appreciated.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: FL430
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Hey RedBelly,
Unfortunately no. I fly a ProLine21 aircraft and have so many people asking me for info and material, unfortunately there is hardly any I can find, and what I do, it's expensive.
If you have EFIS time and a good concept of how electronic systems work, should be no real problem.
All the best
Unfortunately no. I fly a ProLine21 aircraft and have so many people asking me for info and material, unfortunately there is hardly any I can find, and what I do, it's expensive.
If you have EFIS time and a good concept of how electronic systems work, should be no real problem.
All the best
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Florida
Age: 51
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Potatowings,
Thanks for responding. I'll see what I can get a hold of between now & FSI and maybe I can be helpful. I do have EFIS/PFD/FMS time but any insight ahead of time would be helpful.
RBW
Thanks for responding. I'll see what I can get a hold of between now & FSI and maybe I can be helpful. I do have EFIS/PFD/FMS time but any insight ahead of time would be helpful.
RBW
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bristol
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Proline 21
Proline 21 is simply the screens it is what drives the Proline that is important. For example the Citation C525+ tend to have Cpllins 3000 whereas the straight C525 has Universal. The B200 and B90 GT both use the Collins 300. Collins have CBT training but it isnt great - the best way is to sit in an aircraft with ground power and someone who knows what they are doing.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: European Union
Age: 44
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RedBellyWarrior,
I still have some Pro Line 21 manuals for the Hawker 800XPi. Of course, some of the items are Hawker specific but the overall package remains the same. Since you will be training with FSI, there is also the possibility to register with MyFlightSafety and download the King Air training manuals a couple of weeks ahead of course start.
I still have some Pro Line 21 manuals for the Hawker 800XPi. Of course, some of the items are Hawker specific but the overall package remains the same. Since you will be training with FSI, there is also the possibility to register with MyFlightSafety and download the King Air training manuals a couple of weeks ahead of course start.
Last edited by Max Payne; 29th Dec 2010 at 11:54.
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: BFS
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Redbelly
I wouldn't worry too much. FSI have a fantastic set up for training. They have advanced 'cardboard bomber' procedural trainers with touch screens to simulate all of the PL21 functions. from memory you're free to use these as often as you like once the instructors have shown you the basics. You'll learn more in an afternoon on that than you will in a week in the books.
The FMS drives the screens but there is a bit of function around the actual PFD's and MFD's too. The only way to learn it is practice, and the best place is Flight Safety on the actual sim and trainers. Relax, you'll be fine!! And as Max says you can begin pre course study through their web site.
I wouldn't worry too much. FSI have a fantastic set up for training. They have advanced 'cardboard bomber' procedural trainers with touch screens to simulate all of the PL21 functions. from memory you're free to use these as often as you like once the instructors have shown you the basics. You'll learn more in an afternoon on that than you will in a week in the books.
The FMS drives the screens but there is a bit of function around the actual PFD's and MFD's too. The only way to learn it is practice, and the best place is Flight Safety on the actual sim and trainers. Relax, you'll be fine!! And as Max says you can begin pre course study through their web site.
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: ecuador
Age: 53
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question about fms-3000
hi, i have a problem with the fms-3000, after turn off the electrical power in the plane, and turn on again, all information in the FMS disappears, please help me what is the reason, what do i have to do .....thanks
Do you mean you lose GPS pilot stored data / Flight Plan data or default settings?
Might be time to change the batteries, I think they have a 2 year life
Might be time to change the batteries, I think they have a 2 year life
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Portugal
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Mode on take-off question Hawker 900xp
Would like opinions on the above.
I haven't read any definitive guidance on the matter.
I recently completed the type rating in October and mode selection on take-off wasn't fully explored.
Current set up is HDG with NAV armed; PITCH with ALTS armed. Pitch wheel is rotated to 12 deg nose up.
Does anybody arm VNAV on the ground? I was thinking that this would work well, especially with no auto throttle available. Just trying to limit the button pushing I guess.
Further, anybody use the sync function?
Would be interested to hear opinions...
Cheers
I haven't read any definitive guidance on the matter.
I recently completed the type rating in October and mode selection on take-off wasn't fully explored.
Current set up is HDG with NAV armed; PITCH with ALTS armed. Pitch wheel is rotated to 12 deg nose up.
Does anybody arm VNAV on the ground? I was thinking that this would work well, especially with no auto throttle available. Just trying to limit the button pushing I guess.
Further, anybody use the sync function?
Would be interested to hear opinions...
Cheers
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Wet Coast Canada
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"Positive rate, gear up"
"Gimme heading (or Nav) FLC (or VS)"
"Autopilot engaged"
Not so tough.
All you worried about the Nav-to-nav transfer, you can still select it manually, no biggy.
A 605 will not nav/nav if the intercept is too shallow, it needs to detect a solid motion from the ILS CDI. Select Nav Source manually.
Wing waggling? Need to consult Bombardier, they will send you to Collins.
"What is the best FMS system?" "The one you earn your living with."
Edited to add: save your money on learning software, if you can't pick it up at the training centre on your type rating you are not doing your homework.
ps Flying below terrain? TAWS/EGPWS not 21.
"Gimme heading (or Nav) FLC (or VS)"
"Autopilot engaged"
Not so tough.
All you worried about the Nav-to-nav transfer, you can still select it manually, no biggy.
A 605 will not nav/nav if the intercept is too shallow, it needs to detect a solid motion from the ILS CDI. Select Nav Source manually.
Wing waggling? Need to consult Bombardier, they will send you to Collins.
"What is the best FMS system?" "The one you earn your living with."
Edited to add: save your money on learning software, if you can't pick it up at the training centre on your type rating you are not doing your homework.
ps Flying below terrain? TAWS/EGPWS not 21.
Last edited by xsbank; 14th Feb 2011 at 11:07.