Electronic Charts V's Good Old Paper
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IO540
You're quite right, Googling Xpert 310 brings up nothing. The company that makes it is Motion Computing and they also do not have it on their web site! For some reason, they have chosen to sell it through Pen Mobile Solutions Ltd. They do not have it on their web site either! It's a very well kept secret. One would almost think that they don't want to sell any.
However, if you contact Tony Keogan at Pen Mobile ([email protected]), he will send you the full specs and price list. He was very helpful.
The short list of specs is: weight 2.05lbs, dimensions 8.3" X 10.3" X 0.8". Various Flash Cards available, together with a HDD or a solid state HD, but the latter adds a fair amount to the price.
However, if you contact Tony Keogan at Pen Mobile ([email protected]), he will send you the full specs and price list. He was very helpful.
The short list of specs is: weight 2.05lbs, dimensions 8.3" X 10.3" X 0.8". Various Flash Cards available, together with a HDD or a solid state HD, but the latter adds a fair amount to the price.
Last edited by thedeadseawasonlysick; 19th Feb 2008 at 08:02.
Current plane has ProLine 21 with IFIS and it is the cat's whiskers. The 10x12 screens with aircraft displayed on it is just a wonder. Especially an improvement taxying at night, IFR on unfamilar airports, huge safety improvement.
GF
GF
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An addition to my earlier post. The American company that actually makes the 310 is DT Research and the tablets name is the WebDT 310. The web site for them is www.dtresearch.com.
HDD failures at high altitude
I wouldn't be surprised to see failures at altitude. The heads 'fly' over the disc surface, at a height of next-to-nothing, using the aerodynamic 'ground effect' to control their height.
The speed and geometry are fixed, so a certain air density is needed to keep the heads flying. That's why there is a spec.
You should be OK as long as you shut the computer down just before the presurisation fails.
The speed and geometry are fixed, so a certain air density is needed to keep the heads flying. That's why there is a spec.
You should be OK as long as you shut the computer down just before the presurisation fails.
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Snow
I think the argument was put to rest when you stated that it cost so much money in paper etc, etc. What a waste of time...updating charts and spending the night before printing out plates...which is futile.
You see if half way into your flight you have a battery overheat for example...you can't fix it...so in most planes that means going to emergency power, battery of some sort. There goes your EFBs so you're hand flying now. In the decent you need your charts for Grand Juction, Colo. Blowing snow storm.you're a dark aircraft and I know that you didn't print out all the approach charts from LA to NY.
You're hosed unless you brought paper charts which you did because no one trusts the EFBs with thier lives. So EFBs are nice, fun, a new toy. Looks cool but.....
The point is if you're using paper with the EFB why not just use the paper to begin with? Jepps, NOS etc.
Flying back home yesterday, triple EFIS, dual FMS, dual RMU's at FL420
I remarked "Gee we should get a HUD, Synthetic Vision". We both chuckled. When did pilots get to the point where they needed all this stuff to get from point a to b?
Needless to say if you're bitching about pay and your boss just dropped a milllion bucks into this type of avionics..........
Another thought is my right seater had all the Jepps out loose leaf for the approaches so he's fumbling for the Ziggy 4 and the ILS, handing them back and forth. Of course I just said "Why don't you use NOS charts?".
Maybe the only real argument for EFBs is to have the whole world on disk. I probably would for international flying and have the FO update the 'world' at the hangar. The other argument for it is in a crew, if both have EFBs, that might eliminate this silliness where crews with one set of charts are briefing each other, screwing up of course.
That's ok. I'm patient.
You see if half way into your flight you have a battery overheat for example...you can't fix it...so in most planes that means going to emergency power, battery of some sort. There goes your EFBs so you're hand flying now. In the decent you need your charts for Grand Juction, Colo. Blowing snow storm.you're a dark aircraft and I know that you didn't print out all the approach charts from LA to NY.
You're hosed unless you brought paper charts which you did because no one trusts the EFBs with thier lives. So EFBs are nice, fun, a new toy. Looks cool but.....
The point is if you're using paper with the EFB why not just use the paper to begin with? Jepps, NOS etc.
Flying back home yesterday, triple EFIS, dual FMS, dual RMU's at FL420
I remarked "Gee we should get a HUD, Synthetic Vision". We both chuckled. When did pilots get to the point where they needed all this stuff to get from point a to b?
Needless to say if you're bitching about pay and your boss just dropped a milllion bucks into this type of avionics..........
Another thought is my right seater had all the Jepps out loose leaf for the approaches so he's fumbling for the Ziggy 4 and the ILS, handing them back and forth. Of course I just said "Why don't you use NOS charts?".
Maybe the only real argument for EFBs is to have the whole world on disk. I probably would for international flying and have the FO update the 'world' at the hangar. The other argument for it is in a crew, if both have EFBs, that might eliminate this silliness where crews with one set of charts are briefing each other, screwing up of course.
That's ok. I'm patient.
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I've used straight EFB's, integrated, and of course all paper, with different paper formats. Presently we use one set of jepps with a printer and jeppview onboard, and will be integrating EFB's in the near future.
Over the years I've had a number of occasions in which the EFB's failed or locked up. With dual EFB's on board, I've had them both failed, and no charts available.
This has never occured for me with paper charts. In fact, the darn things just keep working every time. Imagine that.
Paper works.
Over the years I've had a number of occasions in which the EFB's failed or locked up. With dual EFB's on board, I've had them both failed, and no charts available.
This has never occured for me with paper charts. In fact, the darn things just keep working every time. Imagine that.
Paper works.
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EFBs don't "just fail" or freeze up because some mean goblins don't like the day you're having!!!
When you install and use EFBs, there are some rules and procedures to be followed (imagine that, procedures when operating an airplane!), like keeping the EFB batteries charged, and changed regularly, like avoiding an internet connection with any EFB, like keeping your operating system simple and uncluttered, or putting your EFBs in the shade when leaving them in the airplane...
Then of course, there is the way you learn to use them: familiarize yourself with the soft and hard reset features, learn all the features of Jeppesen Flitedeck, know your configuration, and most of all avoid the wild "pecking at the thing" with the stylus that I sometimes observe.
In other words, be computer-savvy, and treat the EFB like any other piece of equipment critical to the operation of the plane.
If you think computers are the spawn of the devil, then good news: your retirement is just around the corner.
When you install and use EFBs, there are some rules and procedures to be followed (imagine that, procedures when operating an airplane!), like keeping the EFB batteries charged, and changed regularly, like avoiding an internet connection with any EFB, like keeping your operating system simple and uncluttered, or putting your EFBs in the shade when leaving them in the airplane...
Then of course, there is the way you learn to use them: familiarize yourself with the soft and hard reset features, learn all the features of Jeppesen Flitedeck, know your configuration, and most of all avoid the wild "pecking at the thing" with the stylus that I sometimes observe.
In other words, be computer-savvy, and treat the EFB like any other piece of equipment critical to the operation of the plane.
If you think computers are the spawn of the devil, then good news: your retirement is just around the corner.
Last edited by FlyMD; 3rd Mar 2008 at 18:50. Reason: edited for sucky typing skills...
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If you think computers are the spawn of the devil, then good news: your retirement is just around the corner.
EFBs don't "just fail" or freeze up because some mean goblins don't like the day you're having!!!
No goblins necessary.
Paper just doesn't do that.
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SNS3Guppy: Re-reading my post from yesterday, I realize it's full of unnecessary sarcasm and lowers the tone of the discussion: I apologize. Also, I certainly did not mean to take aim at You personally, or imply anything about the time of your retirement. Again, please accept my apology.
My point was this: after dealing with computers of all make and ilk for 25 years, I have yet to see one fail for no reason at all.. There is always something to be done, software or hardware wise, to prevent freezes or crashes.
Now I realize that the pen-tablets offered on the market for use as EFB are far from perfect. They have not been designed for airborne use, they are slow, and their operating system often limps years behind current releases. Proper care and operation, however, goes a long way towards reliability and ease of use.
My current EFB has quite a fast processor, enough memory, and uses Windows 98, devoid of any ancillary programs or gimmicks to slow it down. Cooling can be an issue, and we take extra care about placement in the cockpit and sufficient ventilation. Batteries are kept fully charged, and will not be allowed to get older than 2 years. Updates are made via CD, never the internet. While a double failure of EFBs is still possible, I just don't see it happening, and am very comfortable operating without paper.
That being said, we still keep a printer handy, for the benefit of freelance colleagues less enthused about the EFBs, and even I have been known to print out the Amsterdam ground chart, for example, because taxi instructions there can be enough of a b*tch without having to zoom around while reading back 17 different taxiway and gate designators..
My point was this: after dealing with computers of all make and ilk for 25 years, I have yet to see one fail for no reason at all.. There is always something to be done, software or hardware wise, to prevent freezes or crashes.
Now I realize that the pen-tablets offered on the market for use as EFB are far from perfect. They have not been designed for airborne use, they are slow, and their operating system often limps years behind current releases. Proper care and operation, however, goes a long way towards reliability and ease of use.
My current EFB has quite a fast processor, enough memory, and uses Windows 98, devoid of any ancillary programs or gimmicks to slow it down. Cooling can be an issue, and we take extra care about placement in the cockpit and sufficient ventilation. Batteries are kept fully charged, and will not be allowed to get older than 2 years. Updates are made via CD, never the internet. While a double failure of EFBs is still possible, I just don't see it happening, and am very comfortable operating without paper.
That being said, we still keep a printer handy, for the benefit of freelance colleagues less enthused about the EFBs, and even I have been known to print out the Amsterdam ground chart, for example, because taxi instructions there can be enough of a b*tch without having to zoom around while reading back 17 different taxiway and gate designators..
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I believe these utilized windows XP, and the most common failure point was a lockup when in map mode. They would slow down and quit. Occasionally just quit...dark screen and all. We had about two hundred of them, tracked by serial number...Fujitsu's. Overall, I wasn't impressed.
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Another thing to consider....
We all know that everything is going electronic and paperless. Inevitable.
It's just that for those that do this for a living in hard IFR weather on an almost daily basis printing out charts everyday would be a real time sucker and you don't want to run out of printer ink at 9pm the night before the flight.
The fact that everyone has a spare set of Jepps behind a seat and/or printing out some charts beforehand shows that paper is the ultimate backup and the most reliable form of approach chart depiction.
I am not anti-technology, far from it, but too many people I know go out and grab all this stuff, spend gobs of money and then whine when they have to maintain it, get it fixed, installed, updated, etc. Technology for the sake of technology is just someone trying to get a new toy for someone to play with.
That said let's leave the toys for the kids because like I said before if we asked the passengers what they think, safety being thier first concern, what would they prefer the pilot to use? Paper or electronic charting?
Something I have noticed, and you don't see this often, is a flight dept where they use NOS charts. It's usualy with an old timer that came to realize that less time at the hangar updating charts is more time doing what he wants. The trade off is NOS charts are smaller, duller looking, a little tougher to hold in your lap but you can put half the US behind a seat, the other half up in the nose.
At the end of the day NOS charts simply give you the same info that all the other charting options do. An approach is an approach.
It's just that for those that do this for a living in hard IFR weather on an almost daily basis printing out charts everyday would be a real time sucker and you don't want to run out of printer ink at 9pm the night before the flight.
The fact that everyone has a spare set of Jepps behind a seat and/or printing out some charts beforehand shows that paper is the ultimate backup and the most reliable form of approach chart depiction.
I am not anti-technology, far from it, but too many people I know go out and grab all this stuff, spend gobs of money and then whine when they have to maintain it, get it fixed, installed, updated, etc. Technology for the sake of technology is just someone trying to get a new toy for someone to play with.
That said let's leave the toys for the kids because like I said before if we asked the passengers what they think, safety being thier first concern, what would they prefer the pilot to use? Paper or electronic charting?
Something I have noticed, and you don't see this often, is a flight dept where they use NOS charts. It's usualy with an old timer that came to realize that less time at the hangar updating charts is more time doing what he wants. The trade off is NOS charts are smaller, duller looking, a little tougher to hold in your lap but you can put half the US behind a seat, the other half up in the nose.
At the end of the day NOS charts simply give you the same info that all the other charting options do. An approach is an approach.
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310 performance
Woul the 310 tablet pc also run flitestar reasonably fast alongsite the plates (not at the same time)? I have flitestar IFR Europe and have to make a decision on how i start dealing with plates
Thx
Bert
Thx
Bert
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I've changed to Jeppview and it is a pain in the tail,
as bad as the paper is it is still the better option,
No batteries, no lockups, no ink, no spending much longer preparing for the flight printing charts. Just reach for the book and you are in business.
as bad as the paper is it is still the better option,
No batteries, no lockups, no ink, no spending much longer preparing for the flight printing charts. Just reach for the book and you are in business.
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We are in the market for 2 EFB's.
Is any one using the Ultra compact computers for their EFB's like the Fujitsu "lifebook U1010". Tablet with a 5.9 in screen. just wondering how the screen holds up with charts as all the other tablets seem bulky.
Is any one using the Ultra compact computers for their EFB's like the Fujitsu "lifebook U1010". Tablet with a 5.9 in screen. just wondering how the screen holds up with charts as all the other tablets seem bulky.
