Bjets
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Startup companies always have hiccups and delays, even in an easy regulatory environment like UK. I can well imagine that trying to get a company off the ground in a difficult regulatory envrionment like India will always take longer and cost more than originally planned.
But some progress has been made - I got my interview expenses reimbursed last week!
But some progress has been made - I got my interview expenses reimbursed last week!
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Before the rumours start let's lay out the facts.
BJets is a start-up and as such had to make reaching decisions including some in the area of recruitment. They took on quite a few low houred pilots and out of necessity these crew had to be hired before the aircraft arrived.
After pilots were offered positions and some had embarked upon their (company funded) type rating courses the Indian authorities declared that no expat FO's would be allowed to work on Indian registered aircraft in any company, not just BJets. Why? Well maybe that had something to do with influential/moneyed families who sent their precious little princes and princesses overseas to become 'airline pilots'
. Said offspring are now back in India with their sausage factory, ink-still-wet-licences demanding jobs despite some barely having qualified and still being in need of further training. Again this is not BJets specific but countrywide.
Presented with a situation not of their making BJets management lobbied very, very hard to obtain a dispensation from the DGCA. This was denied and after several months of paying and training expats the company has had to admit that their time and money has been wasted. I know those who had to make this decision and it has been very difficult for them.
As for setting the company up..... you would not believe the bureaucracy. Obstacle after obstacle is invented by the authorities and each time a solution is presented yet another obstacle appears. Someone up there ^^^ made a smart arsed comment about the aircraft sitting in a hangar. Well, yeah. I guess that's what happens when your 'authorities' insist upon each aircraft being virtually stripped before it can go on the local register. Is that the company's fault or the authorities? Muppet.
BJets have at last conducted their first revenue flights in the face of this adversity. Their order book is huge and I for one wish them well having been offered (and declined) a senior position with them. Anyone who can start up a company from scratch under third, nay fourth, world conditions has my respect.
My opinion. The Indian authorities would rather have their low-time, scary-dangerous newbie pilots operating in their blisfully ignorant state than accept that they cannot cope without imported expertise and experience. I would not be at all surprised if this leads to some serious incidents knowing what I do of some Indian pilots and the aviation infrastructure in that country. They should all be very worried.
BJets is a start-up and as such had to make reaching decisions including some in the area of recruitment. They took on quite a few low houred pilots and out of necessity these crew had to be hired before the aircraft arrived.
After pilots were offered positions and some had embarked upon their (company funded) type rating courses the Indian authorities declared that no expat FO's would be allowed to work on Indian registered aircraft in any company, not just BJets. Why? Well maybe that had something to do with influential/moneyed families who sent their precious little princes and princesses overseas to become 'airline pilots'
. Said offspring are now back in India with their sausage factory, ink-still-wet-licences demanding jobs despite some barely having qualified and still being in need of further training. Again this is not BJets specific but countrywide.Presented with a situation not of their making BJets management lobbied very, very hard to obtain a dispensation from the DGCA. This was denied and after several months of paying and training expats the company has had to admit that their time and money has been wasted. I know those who had to make this decision and it has been very difficult for them.
As for setting the company up..... you would not believe the bureaucracy. Obstacle after obstacle is invented by the authorities and each time a solution is presented yet another obstacle appears. Someone up there ^^^ made a smart arsed comment about the aircraft sitting in a hangar. Well, yeah. I guess that's what happens when your 'authorities' insist upon each aircraft being virtually stripped before it can go on the local register. Is that the company's fault or the authorities? Muppet.
BJets have at last conducted their first revenue flights in the face of this adversity. Their order book is huge and I for one wish them well having been offered (and declined) a senior position with them. Anyone who can start up a company from scratch under third, nay fourth, world conditions has my respect.
My opinion. The Indian authorities would rather have their low-time, scary-dangerous newbie pilots operating in their blisfully ignorant state than accept that they cannot cope without imported expertise and experience. I would not be at all surprised if this leads to some serious incidents knowing what I do of some Indian pilots and the aviation infrastructure in that country. They should all be very worried.
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Flintstone
Cheers for all your efforts on behalf of all expats! I was offered a job by Bjets in December 07 but declined. I have family in India and they warned me about the massive and pointless bureaucracy and corruption in most facets of life. It's truly crippling! There is so much potential in India but........alas.......
Good luck those who are looking for jobs!
Cheers for all your efforts on behalf of all expats! I was offered a job by Bjets in December 07 but declined. I have family in India and they warned me about the massive and pointless bureaucracy and corruption in most facets of life. It's truly crippling! There is so much potential in India but........alas.......
Good luck those who are looking for jobs!
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CL.
I'd like to take the credit but in the words of the song it wasn't me. I do however know the people trying to sort this unholy mess and believe me if there was a way to keep these pilots employed it would have been done.
From the outside it looks to me that 'some' people have certain interests and are constantly moving the goalposts but I'm sure someone who posted earlier will be along to correct me
I'd like to take the credit but in the words of the song it wasn't me. I do however know the people trying to sort this unholy mess and believe me if there was a way to keep these pilots employed it would have been done.
From the outside it looks to me that 'some' people have certain interests and are constantly moving the goalposts but I'm sure someone who posted earlier will be along to correct me
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There are definitely powers aligned against Bjets, even within the company itself. And the first revenue flight they are so proud of was done illegally, from another country. Also, it's never been any secret that expats cannot be hired as co-pilots on Indian registered aircraft. That law has been on the books for years.
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HGD. "Probationary PPRuNer" Two posts, both (negative) on BJets yet claiming to be in Dubai?
I'm not exactly pro the company but I do possess a healthy degree of cynicism which comes of having been around this place for too long I suppose.
Genuine question, how was it an illegal flight? I heard it was outside India but I'm sure that alone won't have the DGCA down on them. C'mon, spill the beans. Once I know the answer I can stick it to some people I know. Stir them up a bit
Edited: No response. I suppose that tells us all we needed to know.
I'm not exactly pro the company but I do possess a healthy degree of cynicism which comes of having been around this place for too long I suppose.
Genuine question, how was it an illegal flight? I heard it was outside India but I'm sure that alone won't have the DGCA down on them. C'mon, spill the beans. Once I know the answer I can stick it to some people I know. Stir them up a bit
Edited: No response. I suppose that tells us all we needed to know.
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Flintstone HGD might be a probationary ppruner with two posts and both negative , correct but one thing which he has written is 100% correct and it is that the Govt order of not hiring Expat F/O after 1stJune was there since Jan 2008 and a written order was passed a little later.
This company had great potential and still it have a great potential to prove itself.
Flintstone you seem to be very close to some one at a good position in the company, so please ask them to hire some good people who has good knowledge of civil aviation rules in India.
I am a Boeing 737-800 pilot flying with a schedule airlines and have a carrier of about 8 years in civil aviation and 15 years in Indian Air Force, the man who is thier advisor is a biggest fool and is not liked by anyone in DGCA. He has no aviation knowledge .
I along with a few experienced pilots wants to join this company but are waiting for the things to improve.
This company had great potential and still it have a great potential to prove itself.
Flintstone you seem to be very close to some one at a good position in the company, so please ask them to hire some good people who has good knowledge of civil aviation rules in India.
I am a Boeing 737-800 pilot flying with a schedule airlines and have a carrier of about 8 years in civil aviation and 15 years in Indian Air Force, the man who is thier advisor is a biggest fool and is not liked by anyone in DGCA. He has no aviation knowledge .
I along with a few experienced pilots wants to join this company but are waiting for the things to improve.
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sim-800
Firstly I did not say that HGD had posted anything that was incorrect so putting that slant on your post is a wee bit sneaky. We all know that Indian aviation is a minefield as far as rules and regs are concerned. The authorities seem to have been happy to turn a blind eye to this rule for quite some time otherwise how else did all those expats who have been working there the last few years get in? I think we both know how things work there and with the right 'friends' and arrangements they can be made easier.
I'm sure BJets would welcome you and your friends with open arms (or maybe not) but if you are as knowledgable as you suggest why not join them now and give them the benefit of your experience? I wouldn't count on them wanting you just because you fly a 737 though, it's an entirely different world.
Firstly I did not say that HGD had posted anything that was incorrect so putting that slant on your post is a wee bit sneaky. We all know that Indian aviation is a minefield as far as rules and regs are concerned. The authorities seem to have been happy to turn a blind eye to this rule for quite some time otherwise how else did all those expats who have been working there the last few years get in? I think we both know how things work there and with the right 'friends' and arrangements they can be made easier.
I'm sure BJets would welcome you and your friends with open arms (or maybe not) but if you are as knowledgable as you suggest why not join them now and give them the benefit of your experience? I wouldn't count on them wanting you just because you fly a 737 though, it's an entirely different world.
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Well said Flinty, Quite right!
I sense a degree of bias on sim-800s behalf! If you are interested in joining bjets but waiting until things correct themselves, I think you may be waiting a while. It'll be when the DGCA realises that backhanders and friendly deposits of varying amounts aren't the way to bring its aviation standards into the 21st century!
Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong!
As far as Bjets goes...well I wish them the very best of luck. I think there is the potential to build on something very successful. If various influential people would get a grip of their own self importance then maybe they might allow Bjets to offer India something great that barely exists over there and maybe the people that are so dead against anything progressive, might be able to take advantage of it!
Hmm...hadn't thought of that now had we?
I've said my tuppence worth!
I'm going to the pub!
I sense a degree of bias on sim-800s behalf! If you are interested in joining bjets but waiting until things correct themselves, I think you may be waiting a while. It'll be when the DGCA realises that backhanders and friendly deposits of varying amounts aren't the way to bring its aviation standards into the 21st century!
Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong!
As far as Bjets goes...well I wish them the very best of luck. I think there is the potential to build on something very successful. If various influential people would get a grip of their own self importance then maybe they might allow Bjets to offer India something great that barely exists over there and maybe the people that are so dead against anything progressive, might be able to take advantage of it!
Hmm...hadn't thought of that now had we?
I've said my tuppence worth!
I'm going to the pub!
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Let me make clear Bizjet that a few of my friends had applied in Bjets but their Manager mr. PS Ganesh told them that they were not hiring any Indian Pilots as Expats were available at a much cheaper Rate, and that now there a lot available in America from AA and United.
Then when this notice came of no more F/O expats they in a hurry hired raw Indian F/O who are not fit for flying immediately. Now they have fired 3 out of 4 and now these 3 F/O are back on the road again and the company has again wasted some more money.
We wanted the things to improve means that a company has not yet started and it has fired more than 25 employes, no job security.
Then when this notice came of no more F/O expats they in a hurry hired raw Indian F/O who are not fit for flying immediately. Now they have fired 3 out of 4 and now these 3 F/O are back on the road again and the company has again wasted some more money.
We wanted the things to improve means that a company has not yet started and it has fired more than 25 employes, no job security.
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sim-800
Please. If you're going to "make it clear" then at least get your facts straight.
The low-time Indian FO's were hired long before the authorities decided to enforce the no ex-pat rule and prior to any UA/AA pilots being available. If memory serves the UA/AA crew were furloughed in July whereas the local FO's were hired around the beginning of this year. Tell us how this fits in with your fanciful version of events?
If you want stability in the company have a word with the Indian authorities and ask them to stop moving the goalposts. Oh, and for the record poling a third-hand, clapped out Mig 21 around for the IAF does not instantly qualify you for a bizjet job.
Please. If you're going to "make it clear" then at least get your facts straight.
The low-time Indian FO's were hired long before the authorities decided to enforce the no ex-pat rule and prior to any UA/AA pilots being available. If memory serves the UA/AA crew were furloughed in July whereas the local FO's were hired around the beginning of this year. Tell us how this fits in with your fanciful version of events?
If you want stability in the company have a word with the Indian authorities and ask them to stop moving the goalposts. Oh, and for the record poling a third-hand, clapped out Mig 21 around for the IAF does not instantly qualify you for a bizjet job.
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Bjets?
I have been following this thread for a long time. I'd like to see it stay alive. If anyone can offer more updates regarding Captain hiring in the 525's as well as operational status - at the least I know I would appreciate it. Thank you to all whom have contributed thus far.
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I think Mr 800 needs to quantify his statements with some hard facts and not rumours. As for the cheap ex-pat statement...well i am pretty sure no ex-pat would regard himself to be cheap! Good value yes! I also don't think anyone with an ounce of professionalism would divulge the type of information you have regurgitated in this forum...if they have then all i can say is hopefully they don't work for Bjets any more.
The hiring of ex-pats was for the very simple reason of decent training and reliability. Unfortunately it seems that people are more concerned with their own success and self importance and don't want to admit that they need that level of trained personnel.
Like Flinty said...it will end up with some serious incidents. Maybe a couple of these might make someone in the DGCA wake up and then perhaps maybe something might move forward. They have to realise though, that progress is only achievable when you are willing to admit you need help.
Saving face and pride will ultimately prevent this!
The hiring of ex-pats was for the very simple reason of decent training and reliability. Unfortunately it seems that people are more concerned with their own success and self importance and don't want to admit that they need that level of trained personnel.
Like Flinty said...it will end up with some serious incidents. Maybe a couple of these might make someone in the DGCA wake up and then perhaps maybe something might move forward. They have to realise though, that progress is only achievable when you are willing to admit you need help.
Saving face and pride will ultimately prevent this!
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I am afraid national pride will over rule any safety concerns, in 3rd world countries.
Bjets is a civil operation, so correct me if I am wrong, why the hell do ex military public servants think they have an automatic seat, in civey street?
Where I come from, candidates are selected on merit and not how much clout the family have. The behaviour in India resembles that of a banana republic.
As correctly pointed out in this thread, type ratings dont make the man. You are born with ability, therefore, it cannot be bought or taught.
For above reasons and more, Bjets have a very uphill struggle indeed to succeed. When things do go wrong, the expats will be blamed of course.
Bjets is a civil operation, so correct me if I am wrong, why the hell do ex military public servants think they have an automatic seat, in civey street?
Where I come from, candidates are selected on merit and not how much clout the family have. The behaviour in India resembles that of a banana republic.
As correctly pointed out in this thread, type ratings dont make the man. You are born with ability, therefore, it cannot be bought or taught.
For above reasons and more, Bjets have a very uphill struggle indeed to succeed. When things do go wrong, the expats will be blamed of course.