LEA Mustang Operation
Join Date: Nov 2001
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the whole vlj thing is very interesting...with a complete contrast between AOC / Owner flying.
One has biz jet experience, management, sim training, opc, lpc, airways, atc, cfmu, mcc, crm, currency, mentors and knowledge base for glass cockpits and expereince thereof, and will typically operate into licensed fully nav aidable nice big airfields with set minima's and somebody else to tap you on the shoulder when they feel landing with the gear is more important than an instant deceleration with granite.....
The other has, by virtue of products available little or no jet time, little experience of such complex glass cockpit and sytems management, little experience in congested airways, little knowledge of knock on effect for level busts, little awareness on complexity in planning for eventualities, little knowledge base to draw upon at local flying club, little understanding of interaction with regional airfield traffic in jets with C152 also in circuit, blowing over said C152's whilst leaving stand - taxiing, little knowledge of effective cockpit management, little knowledge of coping with a pocket rocket from the front, whilst turning round to tell the kids and wife to be quiet whilst trying to perform a cloud break procedure at an unlicensed airfield with only an A/G operator for company on the radio??
Cant wait for them to arrive, and cant wait to help spearhead safety for everyone, this s going to be both fun and scary for al concerned.
The birth of VLJ's is a huge calling for investment in local regional airfields, get them open, licensed, available - create jobs, interest and boost the economy...... now where did i put my rose tinted specs...!!
One has biz jet experience, management, sim training, opc, lpc, airways, atc, cfmu, mcc, crm, currency, mentors and knowledge base for glass cockpits and expereince thereof, and will typically operate into licensed fully nav aidable nice big airfields with set minima's and somebody else to tap you on the shoulder when they feel landing with the gear is more important than an instant deceleration with granite.....
The other has, by virtue of products available little or no jet time, little experience of such complex glass cockpit and sytems management, little experience in congested airways, little knowledge of knock on effect for level busts, little awareness on complexity in planning for eventualities, little knowledge base to draw upon at local flying club, little understanding of interaction with regional airfield traffic in jets with C152 also in circuit, blowing over said C152's whilst leaving stand - taxiing, little knowledge of effective cockpit management, little knowledge of coping with a pocket rocket from the front, whilst turning round to tell the kids and wife to be quiet whilst trying to perform a cloud break procedure at an unlicensed airfield with only an A/G operator for company on the radio??
Cant wait for them to arrive, and cant wait to help spearhead safety for everyone, this s going to be both fun and scary for al concerned.
The birth of VLJ's is a huge calling for investment in local regional airfields, get them open, licensed, available - create jobs, interest and boost the economy...... now where did i put my rose tinted specs...!!
Join Date: Apr 2002
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reading this:
https://support.cessna.com/docs/cust...ust/mustsd.pdf
It should be good enough for 2.5 hours + decent reserve, dont underestimate how thrifty these things are, 250-300lbs p/hour would be very achievable.
LEA apparently looked at the average pax load and nominally its approaching two pax anyway although looking at the specs if LEA have kept them lean on weight they will no doubt get three pax to most of Europe without difficulty.
They only make sense based in the south of the country and from there will probably make the balearics, definetely Nice, Geneva and all the other places the budget charterer goes to in the kingair in 20 mins less. I admit 100kt h/winds will spoil the party
WRT redundancy its no more or less than the Kingair they replace. WRT standby battery endurance they ship a new lead acid now which is a new design and gone are the 30 mins after immense load shedding of the Bravo, I get 3hours on mine complete with FMS navigation in EMER.
Besides looking at the theatre that these a/c are going to fly in, even if it was 30 mins then I'm sure this would work as well.
Just to finish, Cessna are probably the most prolific builder of bizjets both historically and even now interms of an order book. Love them or hate them theres one on every ramp so all the talk of bad CG issues is probably bull****, they do know what they are and have been doing all these years.
I dont work for LEA but they have been around long time and probably would not order 8 of the things unless they had done their sums, besides you would probably pay $250,000 premium for an imminent C510 position so if they bring them over and stick for sale signs on them all they would probably make 1.5 - 2.0 million US$ anyway.
To summarise LEA can do two people to Nice on a one way and the aircraft will be on its way back before the Kingair would have got there. All this for the same price to the customer in Jet Style! If you need to go to Tangiers rent the 550!
Also wrt to the crews if they are upgrading their current Kingair captains of those 30yr old B200's with crap autopilots, then they will find the Garmin C510 a piece of piss.
https://support.cessna.com/docs/cust...ust/mustsd.pdf
It should be good enough for 2.5 hours + decent reserve, dont underestimate how thrifty these things are, 250-300lbs p/hour would be very achievable.
LEA apparently looked at the average pax load and nominally its approaching two pax anyway although looking at the specs if LEA have kept them lean on weight they will no doubt get three pax to most of Europe without difficulty.
They only make sense based in the south of the country and from there will probably make the balearics, definetely Nice, Geneva and all the other places the budget charterer goes to in the kingair in 20 mins less. I admit 100kt h/winds will spoil the party
WRT redundancy its no more or less than the Kingair they replace. WRT standby battery endurance they ship a new lead acid now which is a new design and gone are the 30 mins after immense load shedding of the Bravo, I get 3hours on mine complete with FMS navigation in EMER.
Besides looking at the theatre that these a/c are going to fly in, even if it was 30 mins then I'm sure this would work as well.
Just to finish, Cessna are probably the most prolific builder of bizjets both historically and even now interms of an order book. Love them or hate them theres one on every ramp so all the talk of bad CG issues is probably bull****, they do know what they are and have been doing all these years.
I dont work for LEA but they have been around long time and probably would not order 8 of the things unless they had done their sums, besides you would probably pay $250,000 premium for an imminent C510 position so if they bring them over and stick for sale signs on them all they would probably make 1.5 - 2.0 million US$ anyway.
To summarise LEA can do two people to Nice on a one way and the aircraft will be on its way back before the Kingair would have got there. All this for the same price to the customer in Jet Style! If you need to go to Tangiers rent the 550!
Also wrt to the crews if they are upgrading their current Kingair captains of those 30yr old B200's with crap autopilots, then they will find the Garmin C510 a piece of piss.
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Link worked fine for me, looking at thier figures it would be 250-300lbs per engine per hour. Quoting 1150nm max @ 41000 100nm alternate with a 2600lb max fuel capacity. KTAS 340 at 35000. Didnt find any definitive fuel figures though in the document.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Yes, I spoke to one of the senior guys at West Drayton (now shifted) isn't looking forward to the VLJs.
ATC can cope with a lot but it's the London TMA that's pretty busy.
A VLJ in itself isn't a problem. However, Lon ATC is barely coping now with the amount of "pop ups". So too many more will over load them and lead to increased slot delays.
A pop up comes from places like Biggin, Farnborough etc.
ATC can cope with a lot but it's the London TMA that's pretty busy.
A VLJ in itself isn't a problem. However, Lon ATC is barely coping now with the amount of "pop ups". So too many more will over load them and lead to increased slot delays.
A pop up comes from places like Biggin, Farnborough etc.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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yes sorry figures were indeed per engine per hour,
Interesting about the ATC viewpoint, my £0.02's worth is that there wont be that much impact. The owners were probably going to buy some form of aircraft anyway, either that or they are flying around IFR in something smaller/slower so in terms of IFR "Numbers" they will be neutral or the increase would have been there regardless of whether Cessna/Eclipse built these things anyway.
Cant see somebody jumping from SR22 to one of these things just because they can afford it
I remember many moons ago witnessing a conversation between 4 flightsafety instructors about who was going to go on the "Yard Dart" program and nobody was interested. Whats interesting is that the FAA have subdivided the type rating into four different levels depending on how the TR course was completed and checked and JAA have not.
So rich guy sells the Seneca in Miami and can only bomb off with a type rated experienced guy in the RHS, Rich guy in Farnborough sells Seneca and causes chaos in the LTMA.
The insurers will have to play a huge part in this to ensure safety prevails, these things are as cheap as a four year old kingair. JAA has no provision for the mentoring program that the FAA have put in place.
Interesting times ahead for the traditional Beech 90/200 operators.
Interesting about the ATC viewpoint, my £0.02's worth is that there wont be that much impact. The owners were probably going to buy some form of aircraft anyway, either that or they are flying around IFR in something smaller/slower so in terms of IFR "Numbers" they will be neutral or the increase would have been there regardless of whether Cessna/Eclipse built these things anyway.
Cant see somebody jumping from SR22 to one of these things just because they can afford it
I remember many moons ago witnessing a conversation between 4 flightsafety instructors about who was going to go on the "Yard Dart" program and nobody was interested. Whats interesting is that the FAA have subdivided the type rating into four different levels depending on how the TR course was completed and checked and JAA have not.
So rich guy sells the Seneca in Miami and can only bomb off with a type rated experienced guy in the RHS, Rich guy in Farnborough sells Seneca and causes chaos in the LTMA.
The insurers will have to play a huge part in this to ensure safety prevails, these things are as cheap as a four year old kingair. JAA has no provision for the mentoring program that the FAA have put in place.
Interesting times ahead for the traditional Beech 90/200 operators.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Dutch startup Bikkair
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...operation.html Dutch startup Bikkair
http://www.scramble.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38186 photos of arrival of Bikkair's first Mustang PH-TXI C510-0050
http://www.bikkair.nl/airtaxi.php?id=23 Bikkair Website
http://www.scramble.nl/forum/viewtopic.php?t=38186 photos of arrival of Bikkair's first Mustang PH-TXI C510-0050
http://www.bikkair.nl/airtaxi.php?id=23 Bikkair Website
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Well, we have seen a few C510's for a while now. From an ATC pont of view they are just in the way. They want to fly between FL350 and FL410 at under .6 mach. Some have been as slow as .52. We just decend them out of the way to below FL310 where the PC12's run them over. Then they scream about not having enough fuel to make thier destination. If you want to fly at prop speeds plan your flight at prop altitudes. If your lucky enough to get higher that is a bonus. At first we climbed them up to altitude and played pool with the aircraft trying to run them over. that got old quick and now we just dont climb them if there is any traffic behind them.
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Aww comeon Slatch......
500's and crap 550's have been causing these problems for years, they were the "Next New Thing" 30 years ago, we've had long enough to get used to them.....
500's and crap 550's have been causing these problems for years, they were the "Next New Thing" 30 years ago, we've had long enough to get used to them.....
Join Date: Aug 2006
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interesting 'launch' of the mustang at EGLF last night where one of the head chaps at LEA announced that the mustang will be able to fly commercially from london, with 2 pax, non stop to the tip of north africa or Sophia.......I am no expert but this seems a tad optimistic...? please feel free to correct me.
