Vista Jet
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ok gentlemen; I am not with Vista (yet) just have some info for all of you:
Austrian Tax system is kind of progressive, like you could read a couple of posts ago: you can expect to loose half your money you make over 50k. The sozial system is not bad though - still I don`t know if it applies to everybody. They contribution 14 salaries in this country (by law) and number 13 and 14 are almost tax free - so if you do a little math 90k gives you about 60k net + per diems which are tax free too in AUT. They started up by hiring nativ pilots (tyrolean aso) and its almost the same salary there.
There is no payscale yet, looks like they are building up something, but it is still a matter of negotiation, the numbers in here come close - still it is nothing like nje with the nice benefit package...
The company is also still young, no details about upgrading or bonding, some ideas are just developing. As long as they hire dec's you might face quite a long time in the right seat or at least stay on smaler ac's.
The base policy is also still developing, but I know guys on the asian operated a/c's (14/14) who operate out of really small airports - it doesn't really matter to them, if they deadhead you out of frankfurt or salzburg/graz or whatever if it goes to hongkong anyway.
The ops on the long haul seems to go towards 9on7off, southeast asia is 14/14 as you have to travell, have 24h and come back too. on smaller fleets within europe there might be a 9/7 or even 7/7 developing.
Thats all I know, going to check this place out, still I am more into airlines...
Cheers Y
Austrian Tax system is kind of progressive, like you could read a couple of posts ago: you can expect to loose half your money you make over 50k. The sozial system is not bad though - still I don`t know if it applies to everybody. They contribution 14 salaries in this country (by law) and number 13 and 14 are almost tax free - so if you do a little math 90k gives you about 60k net + per diems which are tax free too in AUT. They started up by hiring nativ pilots (tyrolean aso) and its almost the same salary there.
There is no payscale yet, looks like they are building up something, but it is still a matter of negotiation, the numbers in here come close - still it is nothing like nje with the nice benefit package...
The company is also still young, no details about upgrading or bonding, some ideas are just developing. As long as they hire dec's you might face quite a long time in the right seat or at least stay on smaler ac's.
The base policy is also still developing, but I know guys on the asian operated a/c's (14/14) who operate out of really small airports - it doesn't really matter to them, if they deadhead you out of frankfurt or salzburg/graz or whatever if it goes to hongkong anyway.
The ops on the long haul seems to go towards 9on7off, southeast asia is 14/14 as you have to travell, have 24h and come back too. on smaller fleets within europe there might be a 9/7 or even 7/7 developing.
Thats all I know, going to check this place out, still I am more into airlines...
Cheers Y
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Up north
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yannick - Could you please enlighten me on the "still it is nothing like nje with the nice benefit package..."-part of your post? I have loads of friends in NetJets and I am not aware of this "benefit package". ID tickets with airlines? Pension? Medical benefits? Loss of license?
As for tax I know for a fact that some corporate pilots, both some in NetJets and those with other operators, are walking a very fine line with regards to their tax situation/liability. This is also true for some airlines operating Pan-European operations today (Ryanair, EasyJet, Vueling etc etc). In VistaJet you pay tax in either Austria or Germany, depending on your contract, and then you make whatever tax deductions apply to your personal situation. No issues with tax authorities or social security. Yes, tax is rather high, but I have personal experience from taxation in 5 European countries and they are all very similar when looking at income beyond 70k per year.
Pay - Yes, NetJets has the advantage of offering same pay for all fleets. This is quite good pay for a Citation driver I guess, not sure what the going rates are, but how long does it take to get a command? My sources are getting closer and closer to 2 years for upgrade... So then you are looking at 55-60K (basic) per year for the first 2 years. Fleet - Citation/Hawker for 5-7 years before getting your hands on a Falcon or G? In Vista you can join, and stay, on the Challenger fleet. Fixed roster in NJ is very nice but not the standard in corporate flying, so nothing you can count on in most companies.
I am not having a go at you or NJ. I had a chance to join NJ about 5 years ago but had just signed for another company and decided to stick to my contract. I think that back then NJ offered a really good career opportunity, I am not sure the same is true for new joiners today. Do also keep in mind that you are comparing a company with a worldwide feet of 300 (?)+ aircraft with a company with around 20. Its just not the gonna be the same.
Flintstone - I know loads of operators where new joiners have to pay for their type ratings and get no pay, except for daily allowances, during training. In VistaJet you sign a type of bond, pay for tickets and hotel, but you get full pay during training. Which one would you go for? Having said that I would be the first one to agree that the employee should not pay for anything, but this is how most of this business work, weather we like it or not.
Pay way down the bottom of the league? Not true for all fleets. I know.
Why people would rush to join VistaJet (or any operator today!!)? Because there are lots of fellow pilots who have been laid off over the past 6 months. Add to that that many airline pilots have realized flying for an airline is not the only way forward in our industry.
Good luck to all and remember; There are always better gigs out there, no matter where you are sitting at the moment.
CP
As for tax I know for a fact that some corporate pilots, both some in NetJets and those with other operators, are walking a very fine line with regards to their tax situation/liability. This is also true for some airlines operating Pan-European operations today (Ryanair, EasyJet, Vueling etc etc). In VistaJet you pay tax in either Austria or Germany, depending on your contract, and then you make whatever tax deductions apply to your personal situation. No issues with tax authorities or social security. Yes, tax is rather high, but I have personal experience from taxation in 5 European countries and they are all very similar when looking at income beyond 70k per year.
Pay - Yes, NetJets has the advantage of offering same pay for all fleets. This is quite good pay for a Citation driver I guess, not sure what the going rates are, but how long does it take to get a command? My sources are getting closer and closer to 2 years for upgrade... So then you are looking at 55-60K (basic) per year for the first 2 years. Fleet - Citation/Hawker for 5-7 years before getting your hands on a Falcon or G? In Vista you can join, and stay, on the Challenger fleet. Fixed roster in NJ is very nice but not the standard in corporate flying, so nothing you can count on in most companies.
I am not having a go at you or NJ. I had a chance to join NJ about 5 years ago but had just signed for another company and decided to stick to my contract. I think that back then NJ offered a really good career opportunity, I am not sure the same is true for new joiners today. Do also keep in mind that you are comparing a company with a worldwide feet of 300 (?)+ aircraft with a company with around 20. Its just not the gonna be the same.
Flintstone - I know loads of operators where new joiners have to pay for their type ratings and get no pay, except for daily allowances, during training. In VistaJet you sign a type of bond, pay for tickets and hotel, but you get full pay during training. Which one would you go for? Having said that I would be the first one to agree that the employee should not pay for anything, but this is how most of this business work, weather we like it or not.
Pay way down the bottom of the league? Not true for all fleets. I know.
Why people would rush to join VistaJet (or any operator today!!)? Because there are lots of fellow pilots who have been laid off over the past 6 months. Add to that that many airline pilots have realized flying for an airline is not the only way forward in our industry.
Good luck to all and remember; There are always better gigs out there, no matter where you are sitting at the moment.
CP
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Up north
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
el caballero rojo - Why would you ask to join on a fleet that is not yet operating? The airbus is scheduled to arrive Q1 2010. Did you not check this before you went for the interview? Global? Why take you (as new joiner) on a fleet that probably half of the current pilots want to get on? A group of pilots just finished type training on the 850. If you ask for 100K and the offer was 65K, would you take it and be happy with it? That's probably one reason why you got a "thanks but no thanks".
Good luck!
CP
Good luck!
CP
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 651
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is one Airbus flying for Vista according their website.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by CaptainProp
Flintstone - I know loads of operators where new joiners have to pay for their type ratings and get no pay, except for daily allowances, during training. In VistaJet you sign a type of bond, pay for tickets and hotel, but you get full pay during training. Which one would you go for?
Neither of them.
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I am not quite sure if I got you right, Captain - there is quite a nice package coming with nje, the medical insurance is unbeatable (its for the whole family and they even pay for ordinary sunglasses once a year!), there is a loss of licence and a life insurance for the family and the new pension scheme should come out any day now (this year).
I also was about to say, that the own payed hotel for type rating at vista is just a rumor... but this has been mentioned already.
Well, I have got the right rating, let's see what this guys tell me - I'll keep you up to date, guys (and girls, sorry)
cheers Y
I also was about to say, that the own payed hotel for type rating at vista is just a rumor... but this has been mentioned already.
Well, I have got the right rating, let's see what this guys tell me - I'll keep you up to date, guys
(and girls, sorry)cheers Y
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,482
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Regarding firing the CL300 and CL850 pilots rumour, would that be because they are disposing the aircraft? I would expect the CL300 would be a very much preferred aircraft given its comfort and versatility. That would be surprising. Getting rid of the former CRJs would not surprise me.
No more CL300s coming. Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,482
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Fired or let go? I'll be interested to hear the details on this situation. Again, you'd think they would transfer pilots to other fleets rather than firing them (Lear 60XR and CL605 fleets both use Pro Line 21 like the CL300). I understand that would involve extra training. Still, sounds a bit harsh unless they did something to warrent dismissal...
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thats no good news 
, but true!
They 'released' a few pilots because of delivery delays, hope the state takes over their wages for the next 6 month or so - they also going to 'optimize' the rosters and duties to the legal limits...
cheers
, but true!They 'released' a few pilots because of delivery delays, hope the state takes over their wages for the next 6 month or so - they also going to 'optimize' the rosters and duties to the legal limits...
cheers
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Up north
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Iver -
- What's the difference to the involved pilots and their families?
You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. Do you seriously think that four pilots
(it's spelled "warrant" by the way) Four guys are out, that's it. Pro line this, or pro line that has nothing to do with it........
Merry Christmas.
CP
Fired or let go?
Still, sounds a bit harsh unless they did something to warrent dismissal...
did something that warrent their
dismissal....
dismissal....
Merry Christmas.
CP
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: sURREY
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some FD crew have been furloughed (sp) as some of the 300/850 deliveries have been delayed. Some of theses crews were employed on a freelance basis.
It is not very nice but considering the current economic climate, no one can really afford to have pilots on their books, getting paid and not flying...
It is not very nice but considering the current economic climate, no one can really afford to have pilots on their books, getting paid and not flying...
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: I wouldn't know.
Posts: 4,499
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Don't say that, Air Berlin employs around 100 pilots who are not allowed to fly but get full pay, all of them in the highest quarter of the payscale. If they can afford it though is a totally different question 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Up north
Posts: 1,659
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is not very nice but considering the current economic climate, no one can really afford to have pilots on their books, getting paid and not flying...
CP