The NetJets contract - Good or Bad?
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The NetJets contract - Good or Bad?
What do NetJets Europe pilots think about your new contracts?
Do you think it is has improved working conditions and benefits?
Do you think it is has improved working conditions and benefits?
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Nimbus21 if you don't mind me asking, how many hours do you have ?
As fr the Question on NJE, there is so much already on it, do we really need to re start yet another thread. Like I said there is so much on it and it is regularly updated by various members.
As fr the Question on NJE, there is so much already on it, do we really need to re start yet another thread. Like I said there is so much on it and it is regularly updated by various members.
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Amex - zero hours!
Perhaps NJE should have their own forum in the Airline section?! But I still want to ask these questions to the experienced Netjets pilots as it is very beneficial insight for someone like me who has no experience. I dont want to make such an important career decision without fully exploring the subject. So the opinions and views of current NetJets pilots would be very much welcome.
Perhaps NJE should have their own forum in the Airline section?! But I still want to ask these questions to the experienced Netjets pilots as it is very beneficial insight for someone like me who has no experience. I dont want to make such an important career decision without fully exploring the subject. So the opinions and views of current NetJets pilots would be very much welcome.
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Amex - zero hours!
Basically, I have been offered a job as a Biz Jet pilot but I think I might prefer to be a pilot on the larger jet aircraft like the 737, A319, etc, etc
Ok you got me confused then because I thought you were already holding a licence.
All I am saying is that most if not all the questions you have asked so far are already in this part of pprune.
You will find the Wannabes Forum full of good infos on how to get a licence, hours and a job. In aviation it is better to take things step by step although planning is good of course.
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To clarify: been offered the NJE cadet scheme! Therefore this is why I value the views and opinions of the current NJE pilots before I go ahead and invest £66,000. I want to be absolutely 100% sure it is the right thing for me to do.
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nimbus
in aviation you can't be 100%sure!
in life you have to take risks...yes even with 60000 pounds...this is what most people that write in this forum have done!
As I said before the only thing you have to be sure is why you want to fly...and if the answer is to look cool in the pub and have a better chance of pulling girls (belive me there are people that decide to fly for this) DON'T DO IT
you seems focus and that's great but at the same time you didn't take a chance for help....I gave you my phone number via PM....too shy maybe?
ANYWAY GOOD Luck whatever you choose to do....but maybe buying one hour lesson on a 150 to see what flying is, would be a good start
in aviation you can't be 100%sure!
in life you have to take risks...yes even with 60000 pounds...this is what most people that write in this forum have done!
As I said before the only thing you have to be sure is why you want to fly...and if the answer is to look cool in the pub and have a better chance of pulling girls (belive me there are people that decide to fly for this) DON'T DO IT
you seems focus and that's great but at the same time you didn't take a chance for help....I gave you my phone number via PM....too shy maybe?
ANYWAY GOOD Luck whatever you choose to do....but maybe buying one hour lesson on a 150 to see what flying is, would be a good start
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I may be talking out of turn here, but it seems to me Nimbus, that you're very likely the same person OAT spotted here:
http://ask.oxfordaviation.net/viewtopic.php?t=3963
If this is not you, I apologise, but frankly I'm slightly perplexed by your attitude - you're humming and harring over a cadet scheme offer...maybe you're not aware of this, but this puts you in a far, far better place than almost any other newbie out there. Go on the training forum and you'll find people that would sell various family members for the opportunity you seem intent on spurning... Personally, I was rejected by Netjets after interview in Lisbon. I'm not bitter, no doubt they had their reasons, but it does give me some clarity. NJE, may not be the best co in the world, but you know what? Having a job offer and a type rating offer in hand is a better position than I'm in.
If it is you, then you seem to have learned little from your run in with OAT, as you now have a fifth incarnation....
If there's one thing I've really picked up on my route to starting my training, it's that this is a very small industry indeed.....thus treading carefully is probably a very good idea...
http://ask.oxfordaviation.net/viewtopic.php?t=3963
If this is not you, I apologise, but frankly I'm slightly perplexed by your attitude - you're humming and harring over a cadet scheme offer...maybe you're not aware of this, but this puts you in a far, far better place than almost any other newbie out there. Go on the training forum and you'll find people that would sell various family members for the opportunity you seem intent on spurning... Personally, I was rejected by Netjets after interview in Lisbon. I'm not bitter, no doubt they had their reasons, but it does give me some clarity. NJE, may not be the best co in the world, but you know what? Having a job offer and a type rating offer in hand is a better position than I'm in.
If it is you, then you seem to have learned little from your run in with OAT, as you now have a fifth incarnation....
If there's one thing I've really picked up on my route to starting my training, it's that this is a very small industry indeed.....thus treading carefully is probably a very good idea...
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I can't believe they ask you 66000 pounds!!! I agree it would have been a great deal 5years ago but not now!
They are desperate in pilots and you will be seat lock for a long time on the right hand seat. Consider you will not fly more than 300hours per year. You need 2500hours for command. That makes at least 7years solid before command! Man, a bravo might look "cool" the first 2 or 3 summers but...7!
66000pounds is what I paid in Euros for ATPL theory and CPL IR and Type rating on ATR42! was then full independant and normal salary scale and no seat lock...
They are desperate in pilots and you will be seat lock for a long time on the right hand seat. Consider you will not fly more than 300hours per year. You need 2500hours for command. That makes at least 7years solid before command! Man, a bravo might look "cool" the first 2 or 3 summers but...7!
66000pounds is what I paid in Euros for ATPL theory and CPL IR and Type rating on ATR42! was then full independant and normal salary scale and no seat lock...
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CJboy - whilst it has very little impact on me, one of the four "personalities" adopted by the OAT individual made specific reference to being sent for interview in Lisbon for a place on the Netjets scheme and then possibly dropping out half way through.
Given that in the first selection, 28 of us were sent down to Lisbon, it would follow that a similar amount were sent down for the second selection. I just find it very hard to believe that in this day and age, where the industry is so tough to get into that there would be two people who wouldn't JUMP at the chance for at least a partial sponsorship, coming from the same group of ? C. 28 people for the same scheme....
Also, fwiw, the comments about 7 years to command at NJE, may be true, but at the same time, you're not bonded to NJE if you take the cadetship...you just lose financial benefit if you leave before the training costs are re-paid....in that respect, I fail to see this as any worse than self sponsoring by whatever route and being 12 years from command at BA or someone else...
either way - I just really don't understand why you'd hesitate to grab ANY kind of financial assistance with both hands!
Given that in the first selection, 28 of us were sent down to Lisbon, it would follow that a similar amount were sent down for the second selection. I just find it very hard to believe that in this day and age, where the industry is so tough to get into that there would be two people who wouldn't JUMP at the chance for at least a partial sponsorship, coming from the same group of ? C. 28 people for the same scheme....
Also, fwiw, the comments about 7 years to command at NJE, may be true, but at the same time, you're not bonded to NJE if you take the cadetship...you just lose financial benefit if you leave before the training costs are re-paid....in that respect, I fail to see this as any worse than self sponsoring by whatever route and being 12 years from command at BA or someone else...
either way - I just really don't understand why you'd hesitate to grab ANY kind of financial assistance with both hands!
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That is right but still what company will give you command with so little. The pb remains. The flying hours you need at the beginning of a career is not there. Going to easy or ryannair for a couple years would give you much more hours although I agree experience and hours are not always linked but...still!
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Pay big bucks, get peanuts. Do you really want to invest so much money in a bussiness jet operator that has not made profit since it started?
There are enough airlines out there that offer cadet schemes, or, as bizantin said: get your atpl, buy a decent typerating (not a mickey mouse jet rating) and be a captain before those 7 years. E.g. Flybe fo's average 2-3 years from low time to captain. I admit that is a bit quick but that is how the industry is at the moment. But then you fly airline stuff, not boy toys. 7 year on a bravo or hawker without an apu and no space to turn your ..sh.....think twice. Business aviation can give you some good experience, but if your goal is airline than go straight to an airline, there has never been a better time than now.
There are enough airlines out there that offer cadet schemes, or, as bizantin said: get your atpl, buy a decent typerating (not a mickey mouse jet rating) and be a captain before those 7 years. E.g. Flybe fo's average 2-3 years from low time to captain. I admit that is a bit quick but that is how the industry is at the moment. But then you fly airline stuff, not boy toys. 7 year on a bravo or hawker without an apu and no space to turn your ..sh.....think twice. Business aviation can give you some good experience, but if your goal is airline than go straight to an airline, there has never been a better time than now.
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For clarity - it should be pointed out that we were not asked to pay 66k by or to NJE - this is the price of the Integrated Ab-Initio training course run by OAT. So we will be graduating with the same fATPL as self-sponsored students with 2 weeks of additional training focused on NJE such as unusual attitude flying etc (in a Zlin I think - which should be fun). Also our sim sessions are on a soon to be purchased bus. jet sim rather than the current 737 sims.
This is an informed choice made by all the cadets which is why most of us will have selected NetJets rather than some of the other cadet schemes out there (although there are not quite as many schemes as you may think).
For a newly qualified pilot with 225 hours - it would be hard to say that NetJets is not an attractive company for those of us who have understood the lifestyle etc.
This is an informed choice made by all the cadets which is why most of us will have selected NetJets rather than some of the other cadet schemes out there (although there are not quite as many schemes as you may think).
For a newly qualified pilot with 225 hours - it would be hard to say that NetJets is not an attractive company for those of us who have understood the lifestyle etc.
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reading all that stuff and guys like nimbus 21 coming in the industry I wonder about our future....I least we were overmotivated by flying any airplane, the carreer was not a concern at that time...it changed with time of course..
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For those wondering about life in the company that offers "The best deal in the industry" here's an update.
On one day recently 12 pilots resigned. Twelve resignations in one day!!
That's ok though because they have "...lots and lots of quality applicants..." (official version) or are "....really struggling, positively scraping the underside of the bottom of the barrel....." (version given in the bar).
As the deadline for signing the new contract approaches (December) I wonder how many improvements the company will offer if the exodus continues? No wonder they set the cutoff date so far away, they knew this would happen.
Watching that place is better than telly
On one day recently 12 pilots resigned. Twelve resignations in one day!!
That's ok though because they have "...lots and lots of quality applicants..." (official version) or are "....really struggling, positively scraping the underside of the bottom of the barrel....." (version given in the bar).
As the deadline for signing the new contract approaches (December) I wonder how many improvements the company will offer if the exodus continues? No wonder they set the cutoff date so far away, they knew this would happen.
Watching that place is better than telly
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Hello Smeagle,
after a long time just reading.
Watched your posts in the past a lot, seems to me quite informed info. Personally i left NJ a long time ago. Heard the dark master is gone (any info as to where to ?) and that that did not really improve things for the lot working there.
Who is running the show nowadays in Lis ?
What is the tally on resignations in middle management ie. Fleet managers.
I am quite curious.
Mike J. if you are reading feel free to post as well.
after a long time just reading.
Watched your posts in the past a lot, seems to me quite informed info. Personally i left NJ a long time ago. Heard the dark master is gone (any info as to where to ?) and that that did not really improve things for the lot working there.
Who is running the show nowadays in Lis ?
What is the tally on resignations in middle management ie. Fleet managers.
I am quite curious.
Mike J. if you are reading feel free to post as well.
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On one day recently 12 pilots resigned. Twelve resignations in one day!!
Happy Landings
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Well Fakawi some of my information is gradually passing its sell-by date as I'm no longer there either but I can answer some of your questions. I still have a few moles
Yes, DM left with a golden handshake though could be seen haunting the corridors on a 'consultancy' basis. As to whether or not he went elsewhere I don't know. He knows where the bodies are buried though so one would imagine he is well taken care of.
You heard right. The new management didn't really improve things for the employees although one or two things did get better. On the whole though the place is still not somewhere to build a career. Take the contracts for example, a mish-mash of UK, Portugal and Isle of Man based things. The latest spin is a 'UK contract' with tax paid in Portugal, NI paid in the UK and the employees spread across Europe/Scandinavia. Sadly there are more than a few tax authorities who refuse to accept this cobbled together arrangement and are demanding their pound of flesh. In one country the crew are anticipating this will mean them taking home 10% of their salary. It would be laughable were it not so serious.
The show is being run by new management one of whom learned all he knows about aviation within the one company. By all accounts he is well thought of but perhaps too trusting in that he believes that those beneath him tell him the truth when in fact some are continuing to cover their arse.
Fleet managers seem to roll on through though not as rapidly as they used to. Some really try to make a difference and balance out the madness imposed from above but are undermined by the less gifted. There are still more than a few who simply cannot grasp how to 'manage' and spend their days surfing the web (I'm including some departmental managers and supervisors in this) or in the case of at least one FM hiding from problems.
The crew turnover is increasing as the deadline to sign the new contract approaches and the supply of new hires is drying up, the quality is a lot lower than it used to be. Owners are bailing out too.
Shame really. If they'd thought long term a few years ago and not abused their crew they could have been on to a winner.
Drag King. I like your logic, you'd do well in Lisbon
Yes, DM left with a golden handshake though could be seen haunting the corridors on a 'consultancy' basis. As to whether or not he went elsewhere I don't know. He knows where the bodies are buried though so one would imagine he is well taken care of.
You heard right. The new management didn't really improve things for the employees although one or two things did get better. On the whole though the place is still not somewhere to build a career. Take the contracts for example, a mish-mash of UK, Portugal and Isle of Man based things. The latest spin is a 'UK contract' with tax paid in Portugal, NI paid in the UK and the employees spread across Europe/Scandinavia. Sadly there are more than a few tax authorities who refuse to accept this cobbled together arrangement and are demanding their pound of flesh. In one country the crew are anticipating this will mean them taking home 10% of their salary. It would be laughable were it not so serious.
The show is being run by new management one of whom learned all he knows about aviation within the one company. By all accounts he is well thought of but perhaps too trusting in that he believes that those beneath him tell him the truth when in fact some are continuing to cover their arse.
Fleet managers seem to roll on through though not as rapidly as they used to. Some really try to make a difference and balance out the madness imposed from above but are undermined by the less gifted. There are still more than a few who simply cannot grasp how to 'manage' and spend their days surfing the web (I'm including some departmental managers and supervisors in this) or in the case of at least one FM hiding from problems.
The crew turnover is increasing as the deadline to sign the new contract approaches and the supply of new hires is drying up, the quality is a lot lower than it used to be. Owners are bailing out too.
Shame really. If they'd thought long term a few years ago and not abused their crew they could have been on to a winner.
Drag King. I like your logic, you'd do well in Lisbon