NJE Suspend Another Captain
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NJE Suspend Another Captain
Two captains flying together. One signs the paperwork, the other does the walk round. Unfortunately the second captain overlooks a staic port cover which becomes detached after take-off and is ingested.
Both are called to Lisbon for tea and biccies without the tea. Or biccies. The captain who signed the paperwork is told that he is responsible. He disagrees on the basis that his co-captain could surely be trusted.
His reward for refusing to bend over and take it nicely? Still suspended after two months.
Blame culture anyone?
Both are called to Lisbon for tea and biccies without the tea. Or biccies. The captain who signed the paperwork is told that he is responsible. He disagrees on the basis that his co-captain could surely be trusted.
His reward for refusing to bend over and take it nicely? Still suspended after two months.
Blame culture anyone?
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Why do we do walkarounds and how accurate must they be??? How many incidents happen annually due to poorly performed walk arounds?
Two Captains have what sort of experience??
Two Captains have what sort of experience??
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So what this would mean, if the story is accurate, is that the PIC (the one signing the paper) would ALWAYS have to do the walk around, because he could NEVER trust someone else, now matter how qualified, to do a an outside check....
bit strange, no?
bit strange, no?
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I am not the designated captain, but we both have P1 ratings on the plane and are both entitled to do the prefilght.
When I do the walk around I sign the book.
Not that insentive is needed, but I make sure I do a good and proper walk around as it is my name.
When I do the walk around I sign the book.
Not that insentive is needed, but I make sure I do a good and proper walk around as it is my name.
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.....(the one signing the paper) would ALWAYS have to do the walk around, because he could NEVER trust someone else, now matter how qualified, to do a an outside check....
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Oh dear has my son stirred up trouble?
I get confused between the terms "disciplinary" and "investigative". I always thought they meant different things.
Investigative hearings would mean that a cause might be found and thus preventative measures taken. Apparently, this was the 3rd static port cover to go hurtling through the wonderful t'fan.
First that any one heard about it was after the final one. A bit late?
Why do these things happen? Day 1. Very early show. Not a lot of sleep because they were only notified 11 hours before the show. Rain and strong wind making it a tad inhospitable to be outside. Very important pax. Aircraft arrived very late that night so difficult to get cleaned. Dispatched to an aeropdrome that wasn't going to be open so the crew had to negotiate that etc. etc.
We know what happened. It would be beneficial to all to know why it happened so all can learn. "Pilot error" whilst factually correct doesn't actually teach us any thing.
Any way, I hope the captain is returned to service promptly if he hasn't been already.
I get confused between the terms "disciplinary" and "investigative". I always thought they meant different things.
Investigative hearings would mean that a cause might be found and thus preventative measures taken. Apparently, this was the 3rd static port cover to go hurtling through the wonderful t'fan.
First that any one heard about it was after the final one. A bit late?
Why do these things happen? Day 1. Very early show. Not a lot of sleep because they were only notified 11 hours before the show. Rain and strong wind making it a tad inhospitable to be outside. Very important pax. Aircraft arrived very late that night so difficult to get cleaned. Dispatched to an aeropdrome that wasn't going to be open so the crew had to negotiate that etc. etc.
We know what happened. It would be beneficial to all to know why it happened so all can learn. "Pilot error" whilst factually correct doesn't actually teach us any thing.
Any way, I hope the captain is returned to service promptly if he hasn't been already.
Last edited by Smeagel's Mum; 13th May 2007 at 20:56.
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I am very careful concerning comments to incidents like that,because each of us is sitting in a glas house and should be careful with throwing stones, but what I know from my own experience, its easier to fly with an F/O than with a cpt, what I want to say, two captains can be more critical than the standart cpt/fo mix, therefore : Can anybody tell me, why so many times there are 2 captains in nje? thanks.
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austrian
I don't see anyone throwing stones. If anything the trend seems to be 'there but for the grace of God go I'.
The crew involved have my sympathy. I know one of them personally and he is a complete professional. I am assured by ex-colleagues that the other is also a captain with whom anyone would be more than happy to fly.
As Smeagel's Mum says it is a shame that certain people seem not to know the difference between 'investigatory' and 'disciplinary'. In my experience such conversations should be recorded. In fact, I think they sometimes are
I don't see anyone throwing stones. If anything the trend seems to be 'there but for the grace of God go I'.
The crew involved have my sympathy. I know one of them personally and he is a complete professional. I am assured by ex-colleagues that the other is also a captain with whom anyone would be more than happy to fly.
As Smeagel's Mum says it is a shame that certain people seem not to know the difference between 'investigatory' and 'disciplinary'. In my experience such conversations should be recorded. In fact, I think they sometimes are
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My spin on this is as follows.....................
At the start of each tour I now tell my First Officers that after a walk round the other guy should do another walk round anyway regardless of who signs for it. Its amazing what you find sometimes..I make a point of saying that I won't be offended if the guy double checks..some cultures have a bit of a problem with it .....Good luck..
At the start of each tour I now tell my First Officers that after a walk round the other guy should do another walk round anyway regardless of who signs for it. Its amazing what you find sometimes..I make a point of saying that I won't be offended if the guy double checks..some cultures have a bit of a problem with it
.....Good luck..
PPRuNe Handmaiden
To answer Austrian's question.
NJE try to have more captains than FOs as a matter of course on the roster.
If an FO goes sick, s/he can be substituted by an FO or by a captain. If the captain goes sick, s/he can only be replaced by a captain.
NJE try to have more captains than FOs as a matter of course on the roster.
If an FO goes sick, s/he can be substituted by an FO or by a captain. If the captain goes sick, s/he can only be replaced by a captain.
My recipee:
1.) If my F/O does the pre-flight check (which is included in the post-flight check in a turn-around!) then he/she will sign the respective column in the Flight Log! It is their responsibility to fulfill their task accurately.
2.) The PNF makes, before closing the main-door before startup, a quick walk-around the aircraft in order to have a look for all hatches, locks, doors, covers and chocks.
This way I did not have any problem, so far *knocking on wood*
1.) If my F/O does the pre-flight check (which is included in the post-flight check in a turn-around!) then he/she will sign the respective column in the Flight Log! It is their responsibility to fulfill their task accurately.
2.) The PNF makes, before closing the main-door before startup, a quick walk-around the aircraft in order to have a look for all hatches, locks, doors, covers and chocks.
This way I did not have any problem, so far *knocking on wood*
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In fact he asked for a few days off after the severe grilling* and 'sympathetic' interrogation that Lisbon dished out in their usual fashion. How dare he? Who does he think he is?
He got his days off but in retaliation the company have left him grounded. Calls to the so-called Human Resources department go unanswered and the poor guy is in limbo.
*Gotta love those ex-third world air force jocks eh? Great at shooting up natives in their old african colonies but know sweet FA about man management and earning as opposed to demanding respect.
He got his days off but in retaliation the company have left him grounded. Calls to the so-called Human Resources department go unanswered and the poor guy is in limbo.
*Gotta love those ex-third world air force jocks eh? Great at shooting up natives in their old african colonies but know sweet FA about man management and earning as opposed to demanding respect.
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Smeagal
As usual your talking out of your jet pipe.
Try speaking to the pilots involved, get the facts and then you may apologise for your last comments.
Another pint mon amis?????
As usual your talking out of your jet pipe.
Try speaking to the pilots involved, get the facts and then you may apologise for your last comments.
Another pint mon amis?????
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I know the Captain involved quite well and personally too.
Found it hard to believe the mistake that was made, as he is nothing but ultra professional.
Can only sympathise with the shodding arse f***ing by scheduling and the crap lazy attitude of the outgoing crew by not having the aircraft serviced upon arrival.
This is happening more and more as crews rush to get home.
Unacceptable, with NO exceptions.
Rant over.
Found it hard to believe the mistake that was made, as he is nothing but ultra professional.
Can only sympathise with the shodding arse f***ing by scheduling and the crap lazy attitude of the outgoing crew by not having the aircraft serviced upon arrival.
This is happening more and more as crews rush to get home.
Unacceptable, with NO exceptions.
Rant over.
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Scroll lock,
Do you know what time that aircraft arrived? Do you know what day the previous crew had? I most certainly do. I can tell you right now that there was no way the aircraft could have been cleaned and serviced after midnight when we arrived after a 6.9 hour block flight and a 3.1 block flight immediately before it.
That aircraft hadn't been near a restock location for some time. It was in Nice for a little while but we all know what Nice can be like.
I wasn't aware of the juice spill in the drawer as I was outside in the weather getting the covers on.
Were we told when the aircraft was departing? No. If I had have known when it was going I most definitely would have taken the time to go over it a lot more carefully. Even a quick note on the BB would have made the difference.
Some crew are a bit lazy I won't deny, but to slag them off here when you don't have all the facts is just not acceptable IMHO. We had arranged for the cleaning and the stocking etc to be done in the morning. I don't think I am one of the more lazier crew around.
Do you know what time that aircraft arrived? Do you know what day the previous crew had? I most certainly do. I can tell you right now that there was no way the aircraft could have been cleaned and serviced after midnight when we arrived after a 6.9 hour block flight and a 3.1 block flight immediately before it.
That aircraft hadn't been near a restock location for some time. It was in Nice for a little while but we all know what Nice can be like.
I wasn't aware of the juice spill in the drawer as I was outside in the weather getting the covers on.
Were we told when the aircraft was departing? No. If I had have known when it was going I most definitely would have taken the time to go over it a lot more carefully. Even a quick note on the BB would have made the difference.
Some crew are a bit lazy I won't deny, but to slag them off here when you don't have all the facts is just not acceptable IMHO. We had arranged for the cleaning and the stocking etc to be done in the morning. I don't think I am one of the more lazier crew around.
Last edited by redsnail; 15th May 2007 at 10:37.
