Netjets Europe (Mis)Management. Again.
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Originally Posted by onetimeonly
Smeagel,
Looks like your spies have got the wrong info - yes DT son was fired but nobody can say it was not coming. What do you expect from a person who managed to flunk out of a private school which is virtually impossible to do and then get a job at Daddy's work place? Then you get kicked out of fthe floor where Dad no longer has any clout (no longer a FM) and get stuck with a job which all you have to do is file paper. But then you decided that you would prefer to listen to your ipod the whole day and oblige the manager to hire somebody else to do the job you are supposed to be doing (and it only takes one person to do it)? Talk about taking the piss - it is amazing he lasted so long!
So Smeagel before you talk about something check your other spies before putting you foot in it - again!
Looks like your spies have got the wrong info - yes DT son was fired but nobody can say it was not coming. What do you expect from a person who managed to flunk out of a private school which is virtually impossible to do and then get a job at Daddy's work place? Then you get kicked out of fthe floor where Dad no longer has any clout (no longer a FM) and get stuck with a job which all you have to do is file paper. But then you decided that you would prefer to listen to your ipod the whole day and oblige the manager to hire somebody else to do the job you are supposed to be doing (and it only takes one person to do it)? Talk about taking the piss - it is amazing he lasted so long!
So Smeagel before you talk about something check your other spies before putting you foot in it - again!
Those in the know seem not to agree with you......
Originally Posted by FormerFlake
I don't think he was treated fairly
This company has one of the worst records when it comes to treating their staff badly. Summary dismissal is all too familiar as the record shows. So what should we believe? The many examples of piss poor management, dismissals and court cases or the pop-up naysayers? The company hardly helps itself when it comes to making that decision, does it?
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Is that all you have to say Smeagel? - it sucks to be shown wrong does it not?
Most of what you post here usually has little truth, but then it would become boring proving that you still get everything back-to-front. You are almost as bad as the postmaster - and if you know so much about NJE, then you should know who I am referring to.
Most of what you post here usually has little truth, but then it would become boring proving that you still get everything back-to-front. You are almost as bad as the postmaster - and if you know so much about NJE, then you should know who I am referring to.
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Originally Posted by onetimeonly
Is that all you have to say Smeagel? - it sucks to be shown wrong does it not?
It might. However....
Originally Posted by Former Flake
The thing is he is correct with the opening post.
Originally Posted by falconbis
I confirm the deal for some LTC !
Originally Posted by Bizantin
I am afraid, smeagel is right.
Yep, you got me
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Dear Smeagel
I work for a company that is changing dramatically for the better and they already were one of the better ones around. After having spend a lot of time at RYR and other outfits it is a breath of fresh air to work for a proper company that is great to work for and is constantly working on putting things right.
At NJE I work with great collegues who are working on making a difference it is sad that the same pathetic individual is attacking a company time after time. There are and ALWAYS will be things that can be better as is in any company.
It is sad that I have not read a single positive statement from you.
I stopped responding to your remarks as:
Every few months for three years now you claim that everybody is leaving and every single time you have been proofed wrong. Yes people have left as the terms were not the best and guess what: the terms have improved.
Every time that a manager changes positionm, is fired etc you claim it as a total burn down of the organisation. Guess what the organisation has gone from strength to strenght and since a year ago it is fun to be in LIS again.
On top of that the company has changed all contracts from off shore to onshore and is working on tax issues with the 20% of countries that have outdated pre EU double taxing bilaterals so that all crew are better off.
So I go back to one question I have: Do you know one single Biz Av company that has been pro actively in improving it's terms, communicates with it's crew openly, has a fixed schedule and allows you to live anywere?
There are nearly 600 of flying and more than 400+ in LIS who make a decent living out of great company and it is sad that the same people are negative about the same thing time after time without ANY constructive critism..
Q1 see notes on improved contract. 80% is better off the other 20% will follow
Q2 the FM is dealing with it himself as a private issue.
Q3 the figure was much higher 6000 of the 600 people accepted at lower pay (or am I doing the same fact bending as Smeagel now? I did hear it from the coffe lady at Sion who was talking to the guy refuelling)
Q4 this deal was not part of the major contract change yet. But hey if Smeagel was the CEO he would have changed not only the regular pay deal in a month but ALSO changed the tax billaterals between Swedenm and Portugal and France and the UK too AND every side contract all in one go as Smeagel is soooooooo smart (Smeagel's response will be: so you agree that there is a problem and all management are stupid)
Q5 Hahahahahahaha, we are unhappy about terms and think about a union: Terms are improved and our union plans die. That is sneaky management indeed: management agreeing to our term changes and taking away our main problems after independent consultation of the crew. Oooohhh wait the HR people who got our terms and who published ALL there findings were spies too!!!
Q6 Hahahaha figures wrong again: 600 resigned and some went out after one second. Please get you figures correct!
And answer to question number 7: You will see more and more aircraft being parked as that is part of the business model we only fly them 4 to 5 hours a day. There will be 24 more airplanes parked at an airfield near you in this year alone as the fleet grows to 140!
PS 150 plus negative posts about one subject!! Shows the narrow view you have of the world!
I work for a company that is changing dramatically for the better and they already were one of the better ones around. After having spend a lot of time at RYR and other outfits it is a breath of fresh air to work for a proper company that is great to work for and is constantly working on putting things right.
At NJE I work with great collegues who are working on making a difference it is sad that the same pathetic individual is attacking a company time after time. There are and ALWAYS will be things that can be better as is in any company.
It is sad that I have not read a single positive statement from you.
I stopped responding to your remarks as:
Every few months for three years now you claim that everybody is leaving and every single time you have been proofed wrong. Yes people have left as the terms were not the best and guess what: the terms have improved.
Every time that a manager changes positionm, is fired etc you claim it as a total burn down of the organisation. Guess what the organisation has gone from strength to strenght and since a year ago it is fun to be in LIS again.
On top of that the company has changed all contracts from off shore to onshore and is working on tax issues with the 20% of countries that have outdated pre EU double taxing bilaterals so that all crew are better off.
So I go back to one question I have: Do you know one single Biz Av company that has been pro actively in improving it's terms, communicates with it's crew openly, has a fixed schedule and allows you to live anywere?
There are nearly 600 of flying and more than 400+ in LIS who make a decent living out of great company and it is sad that the same people are negative about the same thing time after time without ANY constructive critism..
Q1 see notes on improved contract. 80% is better off the other 20% will follow
Q2 the FM is dealing with it himself as a private issue.
Q3 the figure was much higher 6000 of the 600 people accepted at lower pay (or am I doing the same fact bending as Smeagel now? I did hear it from the coffe lady at Sion who was talking to the guy refuelling)
Q4 this deal was not part of the major contract change yet. But hey if Smeagel was the CEO he would have changed not only the regular pay deal in a month but ALSO changed the tax billaterals between Swedenm and Portugal and France and the UK too AND every side contract all in one go as Smeagel is soooooooo smart (Smeagel's response will be: so you agree that there is a problem and all management are stupid)
Q5 Hahahahahahaha, we are unhappy about terms and think about a union: Terms are improved and our union plans die. That is sneaky management indeed: management agreeing to our term changes and taking away our main problems after independent consultation of the crew. Oooohhh wait the HR people who got our terms and who published ALL there findings were spies too!!!
Q6 Hahahaha figures wrong again: 600 resigned and some went out after one second. Please get you figures correct!
And answer to question number 7: You will see more and more aircraft being parked as that is part of the business model we only fly them 4 to 5 hours a day. There will be 24 more airplanes parked at an airfield near you in this year alone as the fleet grows to 140!
PS 150 plus negative posts about one subject!! Shows the narrow view you have of the world!
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Looks like your spies have got the wrong info - yes DT son was fired but nobody can say it was not coming. What do you expect from a person who managed to flunk out of a private school which is virtually impossible to do and then get a job at Daddy's work place? Then you get kicked out of fthe floor where Dad no longer has any clout (no longer a FM) and get stuck with a job which all you have to do is file paper. But then you decided that you would prefer to listen to your ipod the whole day and oblige the manager to hire somebody else to do the job you are supposed to be doing (and it only takes one person to do it)? Talk about taking the piss - it is amazing he lasted so long!
I will give you the benefit of the doubt just to keep things pleasant. Lets just assume the the person in question was as bad as you state. What sort of company gives a job to a young person, as you imply, just because their father is a FM? What sort of company gives a young school drop out a job without formal training? What sort of companies manger do not supervise such a person when they are clearly so bad? What sort of company allows, what you claim to be a bad worker, to continue working at the company when he is so clearly bad at his job for so long? What sort of management who, as you imply, know how bad this employee is make him responsible for the basic training of the person who is hired to help him do his easy job?
Even if, and I mean if, you are 100% correct there is a long list of failures from the management that you conveniently ignore.
trainer too 2,
Sorry, but you do you even work for NetJets?
So I go back to one question I have: Do you know one single Biz Av company that has been pro actively in improving it's terms
I work for a company that is changing dramatically for the better
There are and ALWAYS will be things that can be better as is in any company.
There are nearly 600 of flying and more than 400+ in LIS who make a decent living out of great company and it is sad that the same people are negative about the same thing time after time without ANY constructive critism.
Why is the company having problems recruiting aircrew and office staff is the can make " a decent living out of great company"?
The employee survey allowed many of us to make constructive comments and a lot of us took the time to do it (although many were too scared of getting the sack to take part). We have all read the reports from the survey and are waiting for the constructive comments to be actioned. The ball is firmly in the managements court and has been for 6 months.
You will see more and more aircraft being parked as that is part of the business model we only fly them 4 to 5 hours a day. There will be 24 more airplanes parked at an airfield near you in this year alone as the fleet grows to 140!
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You came from RYR? ANYTHING would be a step up from that. No wonder you are so easily pleased.
I have said before that things were improving (which scuppers your assertion that I never say anything possible but hey, never let the truth get in the way eh?) but there is a long, long way to before they get it right and recent behaviour shows that Lisbon just cannot break their old habits.
There are some great people in the company who mean well but are stymied by a few in strategic positions who are fighting to maintain their little fiefdoms. If only these few could be removed then a real effort could be made. Without doubt morale has improved and on the whole many people enjoy going to work but until the few remaining incompetents are removed their efforts will have only limited effect.
How is it CR said that he did not know of special deals with LTC's? Is he being kept in the dark or denying it for other reasons? Suely those below him in the food chain wouldn't be lying to him would they? How many LTC's have given up emailing the Training Department about various issues because they never get a reply?
Speak to the fbo's and other outsiders that deal with the company and they will tell you how chaotic things still are. There was a post in this very thread (now deleted) saying just that.
Idle aircraft. I know just how the aircraft work in NJE, I was flying them for longer than you. The ones I was referring to are those that sit there for days, they can't all be tech surely?
Companies offering better deals? There are many. By its nature the business has many small fleets and one aircraft operations a lot of whom have far better T&C and treat their crew better than Netjets. Your experience is limited to ONE company which you found better than Ryanair The bizjet world is a small and tightknit one and Netjets is not a part of it. Generally speaking the only NJE crew who know about it are those who worked there before.
Contracts also vary from aircraft to aircraft but people I know have recently joined companies like Jet Aviation, TAG and a variety of smaller operators all of whom will fly you in and out for your tours. You'll deny this of course but given your limited view of the outside world I would expect that.
Q1. Why must the 20% wait? Why could it not have been organised properly in the first place by discussion, negotiation and reason? Because that is not how Netjets work. They impose changes as and when it suits them, have done for years.
Q2. Oh how convenient, you don't want to talk about it. That's alright then
Q3. "..6000 of the 600.." What are you talking about? Line pilots refused to be 'upgraded' to LTC's and Standards Captains. What on earth has your response to do with that?
Q4. Instead of an answer you post rambling gibberish. Interesting tactic. The fact remains that the company were held to ransom by resigning LTC's and did an 'interesting' deal to retain them. Others here and in the outside world (I have spoken to one of the companies wishing to employ one of the pilots) confirm this yet still you ignore the point.
Q5. More rambling. I appreciate that English is not your first language but please make the effort. Those with the balls to stand up and introduce some form of representation took great personal risk and to a certain extent it paid off. That does not change the fact that the company felt compelled to plant their people in the union/representation camp. I say again (because you've ignored it) if the company were as good as you claim why should it be worried about the prospect of a union? Why would the employees even feel the need for one? I appreciate however that those coming from Ryanair would be more than hapy.
Q6. There you go again. I quote specifics such as 12 resignations and staff quitting after a week and you respond with rubbish. Why could this be? Because you either don't possess the information yourself, or don't want people to know? I suspect both.
Q7. See above. Aircraft sitting in the same place for 5 days are there as part of the company master plan? You crack me up.
Obfuscation and gibberish. A typical trainer response. Keep it coming though, you just serve to prove my points.
I have said before that things were improving (which scuppers your assertion that I never say anything possible but hey, never let the truth get in the way eh?) but there is a long, long way to before they get it right and recent behaviour shows that Lisbon just cannot break their old habits.
There are some great people in the company who mean well but are stymied by a few in strategic positions who are fighting to maintain their little fiefdoms. If only these few could be removed then a real effort could be made. Without doubt morale has improved and on the whole many people enjoy going to work but until the few remaining incompetents are removed their efforts will have only limited effect.
How is it CR said that he did not know of special deals with LTC's? Is he being kept in the dark or denying it for other reasons? Suely those below him in the food chain wouldn't be lying to him would they? How many LTC's have given up emailing the Training Department about various issues because they never get a reply?
Speak to the fbo's and other outsiders that deal with the company and they will tell you how chaotic things still are. There was a post in this very thread (now deleted) saying just that.
Idle aircraft. I know just how the aircraft work in NJE, I was flying them for longer than you. The ones I was referring to are those that sit there for days, they can't all be tech surely?
Companies offering better deals? There are many. By its nature the business has many small fleets and one aircraft operations a lot of whom have far better T&C and treat their crew better than Netjets. Your experience is limited to ONE company which you found better than Ryanair
The bizjet world is a small and tightknit one and Netjets is not a part of it. Generally speaking the only NJE crew who know about it are those who worked there before.Contracts also vary from aircraft to aircraft but people I know have recently joined companies like Jet Aviation, TAG and a variety of smaller operators all of whom will fly you in and out for your tours. You'll deny this of course but given your limited view of the outside world I would expect that.
Q1. Why must the 20% wait? Why could it not have been organised properly in the first place by discussion, negotiation and reason? Because that is not how Netjets work. They impose changes as and when it suits them, have done for years.
Q2. Oh how convenient, you don't want to talk about it. That's alright then
Q3. "..6000 of the 600.." What are you talking about? Line pilots refused to be 'upgraded' to LTC's and Standards Captains. What on earth has your response to do with that?
Q4. Instead of an answer you post rambling gibberish. Interesting tactic. The fact remains that the company were held to ransom by resigning LTC's and did an 'interesting' deal to retain them. Others here and in the outside world (I have spoken to one of the companies wishing to employ one of the pilots) confirm this yet still you ignore the point.
Q5. More rambling. I appreciate that English is not your first language but please make the effort. Those with the balls to stand up and introduce some form of representation took great personal risk and to a certain extent it paid off. That does not change the fact that the company felt compelled to plant their people in the union/representation camp. I say again (because you've ignored it) if the company were as good as you claim why should it be worried about the prospect of a union? Why would the employees even feel the need for one? I appreciate however that those coming from Ryanair would be more than hapy.
Q6. There you go again. I quote specifics such as 12 resignations and staff quitting after a week and you respond with rubbish. Why could this be? Because you either don't possess the information yourself, or don't want people to know? I suspect both.
Q7. See above. Aircraft sitting in the same place for 5 days are there as part of the company master plan? You crack me up.
Obfuscation and gibberish. A typical trainer response. Keep it coming though, you just serve to prove my points.
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The last time I saw such selective pieces of text to try to prove a point must of being when the US were trying to prove that WMD existed.
Smeagel you could at least use your own words...You know it is a pity you no longer with us - it was sometimes amusing seeing you live in your own world.
Smeagel you could at least use your own words...You know it is a pity you no longer with us - it was sometimes amusing seeing you live in your own world.
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Formerflake - You know very well that crazy things happen in NJE - I do believe that when DT asked for his son to have a job NJE gave him the benifit of the doubt. As to why did they leave it so long - well to this I don't know the anwser.
Training? Training? What sort of training do you need to file paper? What, do you need somebody to tell you that: No IPod during the whole day is no no. No you dont just surf the net and send emails all day, and yes your job is to file the ever growing stack of paper. Am I missing something.
I am not having a go at DT son but the situation was taking the piss and also a complete lack of respect for those who do work their butts off.
Training? Training? What sort of training do you need to file paper? What, do you need somebody to tell you that: No IPod during the whole day is no no. No you dont just surf the net and send emails all day, and yes your job is to file the ever growing stack of paper. Am I missing something.
I am not having a go at DT son but the situation was taking the piss and also a complete lack of respect for those who do work their butts off.
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ou know very well that crazy things happen in NJE
What sort of training do you need to file paper?
No you dont just surf the net and send emails all day
This is not a one off event. No one expects miracles and bumper pay packets (although it would be nice). We just want to be treated fairly and honestly. We all need training, we all need to be managed properly and if things are not working out the company needs to start issueing formal warnings and give people a chance to improve before they are fired. We all have bad days, we all make mistakes sometimes a kick up the arse is all people need to put them back on track. Whether young Mr T deserved the boot or not does not negate the negative effect all this has had on the many people who are on temporary contracts. All these people will now be spending more time watching their backs than on what they are supposed to be doing. It is a simple fact that the only way you can watch you arse and keep moving at the same time is to move backwards. We all need to be moving forwards.
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Nightmare
In my experience changing the flying programme at 22.00 then at 01.00, 02.00, 03.00 and then a crew arriving at the FBO without notice at 0330 with an aircraft stuck at the back of the stand behind the other 8 aircraft that were supposed to go first is always a good way to run an operation 
The sympathy for the crew is there but the good will for the operator left a week after they moved to the FBO.
The sympathy for the crew is there but the good will for the operator left a week after they moved to the FBO.
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Hi Senflyer,
Thanks for your support towards the crew who have nothing to do with that mess. I fully understand how painful can those changes be. Most of the FBOs hate working with NJE (only the boss looks happy but wait, they keep changing FBOs everywhere all the time).
I must say, the support from the FBOs is of great help and most of them are doing a fantastic job coping with the mess
Thanks for your support towards the crew who have nothing to do with that mess. I fully understand how painful can those changes be. Most of the FBOs hate working with NJE (only the boss looks happy but wait, they keep changing FBOs everywhere all the time).
I must say, the support from the FBOs is of great help and most of them are doing a fantastic job coping with the mess
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SMEAGEL:This is also the same management who are doing private deals with Line Training Captains in a bid to stop them resigning at a time when line captains are refusing to accept 'promotion' to training and standards slots.
I have been busy for a while, but NOT to my suprise, nothing has changed, people been fired as they please..........
They do not only try to keep the current linetrainers, but are also doing deals with the ones that have left.....................!!!
When I left I was so bloody fed up with them and the way I was treated, that I told them this in clear language.
To my suprise, I was approached recently if I wanted to come back, they had changed they said , I got my seniority back (in the top 50) and could choose the type an negotiate my salary. They said they were in "great need", read "desperate" of experienced linetrainers...
but me , and all the others, are NOT coming back guys, not for a million.
They will discover this summer that it will be a hot summer.
I have been busy for a while, but NOT to my suprise, nothing has changed, people been fired as they please..........
They do not only try to keep the current linetrainers, but are also doing deals with the ones that have left.....................!!!
When I left I was so bloody fed up with them and the way I was treated, that I told them this in clear language.
To my suprise, I was approached recently if I wanted to come back, they had changed they said , I got my seniority back (in the top 50) and could choose the type an negotiate my salary. They said they were in "great need", read "desperate" of experienced linetrainers...
but me , and all the others, are NOT coming back guys, not for a million.
They will discover this summer that it will be a hot summer.
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Space Pig.
They asked you to come back?!! Man, they must be desperate
Funny how nobody here piles into other people (like space pig, byzantin etc) when they bring bad news. Maybe I should re-register as someone else.
Space Pig forecasting a hot summer is spot on
Of course now that I've agreed the Lisbon Mafia will be along to rubbish the idea.
They asked you to come back?!! Man, they must be desperate
Funny how nobody here piles into other people (like space pig, byzantin etc) when they bring bad news. Maybe I should re-register as someone else.
Space Pig forecasting a hot summer is spot on
Of course now that I've agreed the Lisbon Mafia will be along to rubbish the idea.
