Pay Structure (Oz Ag)
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: two feet AGL or wherever there's smoke
Age: 47
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Have done both at diferent times in different situations and weather you are on 10% day/12% night plus weekly retainer full time or 10% day/12% night plus daily rate casual or 18%-20% contract at the end of the day THEY ALL WORK OUT VERY CLOSE AND THAT IS FACT! (thats what mum says anyway)
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On contract, you bcome the contractor which means if you stuff up as a pilot, your number 1 in the firing line.
Best to check the history on this and what happened to the pilots involved and the fines they received.
I'm sticking to a paid pilot thanks!
Best to check the history on this and what happened to the pilots involved and the fines they received.
I'm sticking to a paid pilot thanks!
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Hot Section / Gas Turbines
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Contract sounds like a good idea at the time and may well be but wait till something goes wrong and the operator wants to get out of it your left to carry the can....Oh and if you think that you contract with the operator will cover your backside try it in court and see how far you get (cant make agreements against common law)...not to mention that at one time in the not to distant past you as contract pilot could be held resposible for the excess on insurance. Oh and one more thing the ato ???? 
ask them for a ruling on your contact setup if your so sure it is legal supplying your services and a crash helmet.
As for wages what choice is there apart from the award rates unless your one of the long white cloud variety of pilot who can do everything cheaper than us aussies...and in the process help to drag the pay rates and conditions of the industry.....down
ask them for a ruling on your contact setup if your so sure it is legal supplying your services and a crash helmet.As for wages what choice is there apart from the award rates unless your one of the long white cloud variety of pilot who can do everything cheaper than us aussies...and in the process help to drag the pay rates and conditions of the industry.....down
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: two feet AGL or wherever there's smoke
Age: 47
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Burnercan, how little do you know, as a kiwi I can assure you that I work no cheaper than any aussie, and infact do you know that one of our fellow pilots that has being most proactive in keeping rates and wages up for employes and contractors alike in recent times is very much a kiwi, so i would hold my tongue if I were you bro
CD
CD
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: australia
Posts: 24
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I did not mean for it to turn into a blue , I have heard so many different opinions on this and hoped thru this forum could find the best common ground between operators and pilots
There is lots to consider
There is lots to consider
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I like the award, 10% spraying, 8% spreading, 12.5% night which is worth every cent plus retainer.
If you go contract, make sure you go through a lawyer and accountant.
At the AAAA's conference in the pilots seminar, they do a talk on contract.
It's worth listening to every second.
If you go contract, make sure you go through a lawyer and accountant.
At the AAAA's conference in the pilots seminar, they do a talk on contract.
It's worth listening to every second.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Hot Section / Gas Turbines
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Apologies max speed if i offended u but maybe you can explain to me and others (unless i got the wrong end of the story) why is it in the land of the "leng whit clud" that pilots get paid less percentage to fly a walter, less percentage again to fly cresco than a 400 fletcher ?? maybe im missing something here as pauline once said please explain
And dont take it personally just getting a little friendly cross tasman banter going after all you folks keep kicking our ass at rugby
And dont take it personally just getting a little friendly cross tasman banter going after all you folks keep kicking our ass at rugby
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Australia
Posts: 1,082
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Percentage can be a problem with unscrupulous employers. (As can everything for that matter)
It is easy for a line pilot to keep track of how many hectares are going out.
It can be hard to know exactly what each client is being charged for those hectares and therefore what one's percentage is.
Also, if the operator goes cheap to try and score more market share, pilot percentage suffers through no fault of the pilot.
Hard ones to work around, food for thought.
It is easy for a line pilot to keep track of how many hectares are going out.
It can be hard to know exactly what each client is being charged for those hectares and therefore what one's percentage is.
Also, if the operator goes cheap to try and score more market share, pilot percentage suffers through no fault of the pilot.
Hard ones to work around, food for thought.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: In The Office
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Not so hard to work around. If you not happy find another employer. An experienced pilot's market at the moment, I would have thought.
Good pilots and good employers are always few and far between.
If you want good, secure money and a good employer, aim to be a bloody good pilot. For those who don't know what that means here are a few suggestions; trustworthy, punctual, safety conscious, friendly and helpful to fellow staff and clients, team players, look after their aircraft.
If your an operator and you can never get good pilots chances are you pay sh%$ and are an ar$^hol@ to work for. Having five pilots on standby just in case it rains or for that once in a century locust plague will not make for happy people. Try to appreciate that these people are here to help you make money, so look after them.
At the end of the day we are all on the same team trying to win the same game.
Good pilots and good employers are always few and far between.
If you want good, secure money and a good employer, aim to be a bloody good pilot. For those who don't know what that means here are a few suggestions; trustworthy, punctual, safety conscious, friendly and helpful to fellow staff and clients, team players, look after their aircraft.
If your an operator and you can never get good pilots chances are you pay sh%$ and are an ar$^hol@ to work for. Having five pilots on standby just in case it rains or for that once in a century locust plague will not make for happy people. Try to appreciate that these people are here to help you make money, so look after them.
At the end of the day we are all on the same team trying to win the same game.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: two feet AGL or wherever there's smoke
Age: 47
Posts: 112
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well said turboman. Money is not everything in a job. But it's kind of like saying "you don't need alcohol to have a good time........ But it sure f@#king helps!"
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
This one can go around and around and around. The ATO has there criteria for the definition of a contractor. All the states have there's for the defining of a contractor for workers comp purposes. Also years ago the NSW goverment had there's in regard to payroll tax. None are the same!!
All of us both pilots and operators have twisted things around a bit on this one to suit ourselves at the time. And most of us are guilty of a bit of tunnel vision here as well.
OK lets have a hands up out there for any contract pilot who is truly a full contractor responsible for everything to do with the job and has to where the consequences (financially) of his actions.
All I saw then was bums dissapearing down burrows. (mine one of them)
The reality is guys, what we are are pilots working for an operator for a while on a contract rate. True or false? And that is the way both sides of the fence want it to be.
Mrs Maxspeed has advised her son well as I agree there is not a lot of difference in the short term in the income. The difference as we all know is what that tax does to that amount under the payg system, isn't it. And also the claimability of the genuine expenses for a contract pilot operating a company is a hell of a lot simpler.
I think this is an industry problem for both operators and pilots and I wish it could be attacked that way by the AAAA's. I certinantly don't like the division that appears to be occuring on this. It's a little scary actually.
One thing I'm sure of is, when ever I worked for any company as a contract pilot I was still WORKING FOR THAT COMPANY and for any operator to try and ditch a pilot as a contractor when some sh#t hits the fan is as weak as pi##.
Now what about the withholding of part of the persentage of the pilots income rate on contract guys that I'm hearing about??? I havn't ever been at the pointy end on this one but some mates of mine have and they are not happy campers.
And don't forget boys and girls the beautiful Agwaggon is the MG of the ag industry.
All of us both pilots and operators have twisted things around a bit on this one to suit ourselves at the time. And most of us are guilty of a bit of tunnel vision here as well.
OK lets have a hands up out there for any contract pilot who is truly a full contractor responsible for everything to do with the job and has to where the consequences (financially) of his actions.
All I saw then was bums dissapearing down burrows. (mine one of them)
The reality is guys, what we are are pilots working for an operator for a while on a contract rate. True or false? And that is the way both sides of the fence want it to be.
Mrs Maxspeed has advised her son well as I agree there is not a lot of difference in the short term in the income. The difference as we all know is what that tax does to that amount under the payg system, isn't it. And also the claimability of the genuine expenses for a contract pilot operating a company is a hell of a lot simpler.
I think this is an industry problem for both operators and pilots and I wish it could be attacked that way by the AAAA's. I certinantly don't like the division that appears to be occuring on this. It's a little scary actually.
One thing I'm sure of is, when ever I worked for any company as a contract pilot I was still WORKING FOR THAT COMPANY and for any operator to try and ditch a pilot as a contractor when some sh#t hits the fan is as weak as pi##.
Now what about the withholding of part of the persentage of the pilots income rate on contract guys that I'm hearing about??? I havn't ever been at the pointy end on this one but some mates of mine have and they are not happy campers.
And don't forget boys and girls the beautiful Agwaggon is the MG of the ag industry.
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 19
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I dont really care for opinions on this one, if you cant satisfy the three tests set by the ATO no amount of legal lettering will turn a grey area into a white area. If you just front up with helmet in hand, dont bill the client direct, cant make good a mistake, then brace your self, your a contactor only in your eyes. This area extends to workers comp as well and this is where the operator will cop it in the neck. A false belief to date is the Operator has been comfortable to embrace pilots as Contractors to date knowing that should the ATO have a look the only penalties that will be handed out will effect the pilots pocket and not his... the trap is the ATO will view the payments to the pilot as 'net' not 'gross' with all the ensuing penalties, back tax, interest carving a nice hole in his supa.
If you really think that you have it in the bag ask the ATO for an opinion and if you satify them that you really are a Contractor then walk around with a big grin
so we know who you are and find out how you did it.
If you really think that you have it in the bag ask the ATO for an opinion and if you satify them that you really are a Contractor then walk around with a big grin
so we know who you are and find out how you did it.
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Hot Section / Gas Turbines
Posts: 40
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
my thoughts and my accoutants thoughts exactly cruzn for all the people out there that think they are grininning go get a ruling from the ATO or see what happens when things go pear shaped and u get dropped like a hot spud all of the above will wipe the smile off your face
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yep I agree Cruzn.
Nothing wrong with opinions though. Someone in the ATO will have one.
My point was however that there never has been any contractors in our industry! Only pilots working short time or seasonaly on a contract rate.
No it probably won't pass the ATO test ( in most cases anyhow).
That contract rate % was never designed to cover "making good a mistake"
or to cover the insurances to cover such things if you could get it.
I wonder how many "contractors" are sitting behing a computer terminal down at the ATO offices?
Nothing wrong with opinions though. Someone in the ATO will have one.
My point was however that there never has been any contractors in our industry! Only pilots working short time or seasonaly on a contract rate.
No it probably won't pass the ATO test ( in most cases anyhow).
That contract rate % was never designed to cover "making good a mistake"
or to cover the insurances to cover such things if you could get it.
I wonder how many "contractors" are sitting behing a computer terminal down at the ATO offices?
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Australia
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When the ag pilot standard was introduced it was supposed to be similar to a top airline pilots wages. Some how it did not keep up with the heavy metal wages as it was originay intended. Considering what the mines are paying and what an ag pilot gets for the responsibility he carries, we are getting the pointy end of the pineapple.
Sadly, the rates operators get have not increased much in the last 20 years either let alone adding in drought and ground rig operators who are prepared to go broke.
Sadly, the rates operators get have not increased much in the last 20 years either let alone adding in drought and ground rig operators who are prepared to go broke.