Non type rated SIC in N reg ac in EU

[Itswindyout]

I know this is old news, but I can not find the thread.....
Please assist and direct me to the officlal reference that shows that on a N reg aircraft (citation 3,7 etc) that the right hand seat should be occupied by a type rated person.
Is the new FAA SIC qualification considered acceptable by the EU / JAA / who ever.
Thanks in advance.
Windy.

[Cathar]

See previous thread here

[FLEXJET]

http://web.nbaa.org/public/ops/sic/

I hope it is what you need ! (I gave up searching the FAA web site...).

You need a type if flying outside US.

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Very very old thread things have changed.
Right now if you are given appropiate training either by a certified course or a TYPE rated American ATP holder, you can act as 2iC.
The problem arose becuase this system in the States is an excemption to ICAO rules. It all kicked off a couple of years ago because some guys were flying some heavy iron into and out of Luton with Engineer/PPL/2ic in the RHS. The CAA ramp checked them and eventually formally objected to the excemption and told the US to sort the job out!
Previously the only evidence of training used to be log book entries with a suitable endorsement in the logbook which read something along the lines of:
.
.
.
14 CFR 61.55
Second in Command Qualification
I certify that _____________________________________
Holder of Airman Certificate # ¬¬___________________
Has demonstrated the skill and knowledge required for the safe operation of the_____________ type of Aircraft, relevant to the duties and responsibilities of a second-in-command.
SIM / Flight Training for Second In Command Training completed this date
___________________________ _____________________
Signature Certificate #
___________________________ _____________________
Name (Please Print) Date
Ground training has been provided IAW FAR 61.55(B)(1)(i) through (v).
.
.
what wasn't carried was an actual license, which was making the CAA have a baby.
The FAA has now basically agreed to withdraw their exemption to ICAO for flights outside the US but has postponed the withdrawal till I think July 06 so that 2iC holders can apply to the FAA to get their 2ic TYPE ratings actually issed onto their airmans certificate if they want to operate outside the US. This is simply done at any FSDO in the US with a 8710 form
On their actual license they will get something like:
Types: 737 (SIC)
with limitations being.
BOEING 737 (second in command privileges only)
Do a google search on FAR 61.55 for the absolute regs
Also just found this which explains things a little better.
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory...ighlight=61.55
2iC is a great tool for bringing people on, Im a Brit and luckily had a US PPL which enabled me to get some serius Jet time. You will need to have a US IR which can be converted from your JAA/IR if required.
So the answer is yes you can, but do it properly after June

[123567]

Yes, the second-in-command must have a type rating. On August 4, 2005, the FAA released a final rule that changed 14 CFR 61.55 "Second-in-command qualifications." The changed rule requires pilots who plan to fly outside U.S. airspace and land in foreign countries, and who are acting as second-in-command of an aircraft certificated for operations with a minimum flightcrew of at least two pilots, to obtain an appropriate pilot type rating. The rule established a new "SIC type rating" that will meet this requirement, and pilots must comply with this requirement no later than June 6, 2006. More information about the new SIC rule may be found on the NBAA web site at:
http://web.nbaa.org/public/ops/sic

[NZLeardriver]

I think it also says on your FAA medical or somewhere that the SIC rating is only valid in the US.

[LJDRVR]

Just was issued my temporary certificate with Embraer 145 SIC type rating. Nowhere on the US medical does it say anything about your certificate. Just take your 61.58 card or 8710 from Flight Safety or Simuflite down to your local FSDO, and they'll write you out one on the spot.

Windy, one other consideration when operating internationally. The FAA is about the only entity I'm aware of that allows the calender month exemption. In other words, if your medical is dated 2 Mar 06, and you're landing at Luton on the 4th, good luck with the CAA. As far as they're concerned, your medical is expired. Even though the FAA says it's good till the last day of March.

I wish you success!

[Itswindyout]

thanks to you all

I hope to be in USA very soon, just jumping thru the fingerprinting hoops and things. FSI in Farnborough were very efficient.
Hope to get to Tucson to do the LR31 course. I would have prefered to do the PIC but the company are a little tight for money.......so SIC it must be, I even offered to pay a few $ myself.

I assume the validity is as per PIC validity.

Windy

[G-SPOTs Lost]

Did I read somewhere that a Lr31 will do 300 knots IAS level on one engine?

Have fun with the course, if you are validating a UK license to achieve an FAA ticket make sure the CAA have all the correct info.

Good luck stateside!

[LJDRVR]

Originally Posted by G-SPOTs Lost

Did I read somewhere that a Lr31 will do 300 knots IAS level on one engine?

You heard correctly. It's one thing to see it in the sim, another thing entirely to fly it. I'll always remember my first V1 cut in a Lear 35. Climbed out at V2 showing 2500 fpm.

How I do miss her and her sisters.

[Itswindyout]

Lr31 simulator

I did my LR35 having been on Hawkers, and used to the V1/VR being spoken as one word, so when I did my first EFTO, I was very surprised as I rotated at V1, and dragged my ass along the runway, but we got into the air.
The instructor expressed his surprise at the non fatal crash situation.
The sim flew very nicely with one engine, rolling take off was slightly interesting, but it took off.

Done it in Citation 2 too, then a roll to prove it was a good day then landed back on, dead stick.

I hope the 31 is as forgiving, (sic). I know there have been many improvments since those days.

I have an FAA PPL, and a CAA/JAA PPL, (with IMC), and a rich friend.

(Been out of the business for a long time)

Thanks.

Windy