Netjets callsigns
PPRuNe Handmaiden
Perhaps it's a positioning flight for circuit training?
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Just a thought, but I have posted in this thread http://www.pprune.com/forums/showthr...hreadid=199683 about a similar thing.
Flights over the Atlantic without ETOPS are done on the registration at least that’s how it seems, is this legal? I don’t know. There seem to be other reasons too:
If a runway is too short for public transport they will fly on the registration, I believe this is called flying ‘general aviation’. Basically that’s how I see it. I have chatted in the past with NJE pilots and they say that it means they can do things they couldn’t do if they were flying public transport.
If a UK operator did this they would be crucified.
Flights over the Atlantic without ETOPS are done on the registration at least that’s how it seems, is this legal? I don’t know. There seem to be other reasons too:
If a runway is too short for public transport they will fly on the registration, I believe this is called flying ‘general aviation’. Basically that’s how I see it. I have chatted in the past with NJE pilots and they say that it means they can do things they couldn’t do if they were flying public transport.
If a UK operator did this they would be crucified.
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Which regulations? I posted in that thread trying to get help with understanding ETOPS some weeks ago and the replies I got made me think it couldn't be done flying the direct route from the UK.
So what you are saying is a UK operator of say a GV can on a public transport flight go direct to the Caribean fom London? Using what regulations?
Sorry if this is off topic but the guy asked a question and I tried to answer it.
So what you are saying is a UK operator of say a GV can on a public transport flight go direct to the Caribean fom London? Using what regulations?
Sorry if this is off topic but the guy asked a question and I tried to answer it.
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Without wanting to sound impolite Smallfry, the guy asked a civil question and I have just tried to search as you suggest he should and I can’t find an answer either.
So why do they drop the call sign and fly using the registration? If it is a standard thing for companies to do why don’t the airlines do it from time to time? Other private operators always use their company call signs. It does all seem a bit intriguing to me.
So why do they drop the call sign and fly using the registration? If it is a standard thing for companies to do why don’t the airlines do it from time to time? Other private operators always use their company call signs. It does all seem a bit intriguing to me.
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callsigns
nje flies with their cs-... callsign when the commercial regulations dont fit. Normally this is done during a flight without passengers.
When the weather is for example not good enough to land with the commercial regulations they use the private rules, these landing distances required are a lot less!
Then again, when landed they have to use the Fraction c/s again when flying outof this place with passengers.
When they fly with passengers they use the Fraction c/s.
There is one BUT.
The only chance NJE can use the cs-... callsign is when the passengers on board are the real owners of the aircraft, so they are on the ownerslist which is in the aircraft.
Then they can use the cs-... callsign and fly with their ETOPS 120min across the ocean.
This is what I know, hope this help you guys a bit.
When the weather is for example not good enough to land with the commercial regulations they use the private rules, these landing distances required are a lot less!
Then again, when landed they have to use the Fraction c/s again when flying outof this place with passengers.
When they fly with passengers they use the Fraction c/s.
There is one BUT.
The only chance NJE can use the cs-... callsign is when the passengers on board are the real owners of the aircraft, so they are on the ownerslist which is in the aircraft.
Then they can use the cs-... callsign and fly with their ETOPS 120min across the ocean.
This is what I know, hope this help you guys a bit.
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Hey Natops, wx has nothing to do with commercial or GA limitations or minima.
GA has in this respect same limitations. (VIS-RVR-wind,etc..)
It does influence landing distances required and t/o limits. see JAR-OPS factors
GA has in this respect same limitations. (VIS-RVR-wind,etc..)
It does influence landing distances required and t/o limits. see JAR-OPS factors
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f a runway is too short for public transport they will fly on the registration, I believe this is called flying �general aviation�. Basically that�s how I see it. I have chatted in the past with NJE pilots and they say that it means they can do things they couldn�t do if they were flying public transport.
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That is the way I see it too.
Anyhow Net Jets do fly on the callsign with passengers, Ive seen it with my own ears
Lets face it they do what they want and there is nothing any one can do about it, they are just too big. Be affraid
Anyhow Net Jets do fly on the callsign with passengers, Ive seen it with my own ears
Lets face it they do what they want and there is nothing any one can do about it, they are just too big. Be affraid
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Call signs
Hi Viz, how do you know the aircraft using a tail number was flying with passengers??? Netjets often flies with company personnel on board or the tail number is used to get into shorter airfields empty.
Netjets is fully audited by the INAC (Porto CAA) as well as many other external auditors. Hi Viz you are right, Netjets has a lot to be afraid of, the safety culture is second to none and the company will do anything to maintain safety. Netjets is big enough to say to it's owners NO!
Netjets is fully audited by the INAC (Porto CAA) as well as many other external auditors. Hi Viz you are right, Netjets has a lot to be afraid of, the safety culture is second to none and the company will do anything to maintain safety. Netjets is big enough to say to it's owners NO!
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Hi Viz, how do you know the aircraft using a tail number was flying with passengers??? Netjets often flies with company personnel on board or the tail number is used to get into shorter airfields empty.
As far as I remember, JAR-OPS says that operator with AOC even when flying for free has to follow all regulations as for air transport.
I could be wrong on this last point I am not familiar with JAR Ops and I havent flown public transport myself for many years.
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Quote:
As far as I remember, JAR-OPS says that operator with AOC even when flying for free has to follow all regulations as for air transport.
It is also my understanding of the rules that if it carries company personnel it must fly using public transport rules.
I could be wrong on this last point I am not familiar with JAR Ops and I havent flown public transport myself for many years.
--------------------------------
This is true, but as many other things in JAR Country differs from governing Authority to Authority, somestimes the opinion changes from room to room within the Authority. The company I was flying for, sought a permit to go to places impossible to go to with JAROPS applied, ONLY for the owner of Aircraft and company, with the pilots that fly the airplane under JAROPS. Authority says: "Oh you can do that, but you´ll have to do a maintenance check after every such flight, like the one you do when the A/C is brought on the AOC the first time." (This is basically a papercheck, however takes at least 1 day at hte shop)
Owner went furiuos and sold the company and A/C´s after many such things. Got a new job at the company just next door and guess what: We fly private ops(for the owners only) and commercial ops, mixed, without any trouble from the same Authority (its !just an other Company principal). Same with 2 A/C types the sam dutyperiod. Forbidden by JAROPS, forbidden at my old company - allowed with 1,5 hours between onblock and offblock at my new place.
Same rules for everybody ? Thats a good laugh in Europe !
As far as I remember, JAR-OPS says that operator with AOC even when flying for free has to follow all regulations as for air transport.
It is also my understanding of the rules that if it carries company personnel it must fly using public transport rules.
I could be wrong on this last point I am not familiar with JAR Ops and I havent flown public transport myself for many years.
--------------------------------
This is true, but as many other things in JAR Country differs from governing Authority to Authority, somestimes the opinion changes from room to room within the Authority. The company I was flying for, sought a permit to go to places impossible to go to with JAROPS applied, ONLY for the owner of Aircraft and company, with the pilots that fly the airplane under JAROPS. Authority says: "Oh you can do that, but you´ll have to do a maintenance check after every such flight, like the one you do when the A/C is brought on the AOC the first time." (This is basically a papercheck, however takes at least 1 day at hte shop)
Owner went furiuos and sold the company and A/C´s after many such things. Got a new job at the company just next door and guess what: We fly private ops(for the owners only) and commercial ops, mixed, without any trouble from the same Authority (its !just an other Company principal). Same with 2 A/C types the sam dutyperiod. Forbidden by JAROPS, forbidden at my old company - allowed with 1,5 hours between onblock and offblock at my new place.
Same rules for everybody ? Thats a good laugh in Europe !
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I can only say that I have never and, never will fly a commercial flight using GA figures. And I know no one in the company who would and why would they??
Hi Vis, I suggest you may have been mistaken when you "recognised the passengers." It is within the rules to fly empty into and airfield GA and then operate commercially out.
Netjets always works within the rules of the INAC and I know that these differ a little from JAR ops but, it is all fully legal with the Portuguese regulations. Every country's regulations have some benefits; the UK FTLs are less restrictive that the INAC, it's swings and roundabouts.
Have a happy new year one and all!!
Hi Vis, I suggest you may have been mistaken when you "recognised the passengers." It is within the rules to fly empty into and airfield GA and then operate commercially out.
Netjets always works within the rules of the INAC and I know that these differ a little from JAR ops but, it is all fully legal with the Portuguese regulations. Every country's regulations have some benefits; the UK FTLs are less restrictive that the INAC, it's swings and roundabouts.
Have a happy new year one and all!!
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Hi Vis, I suggest you may have been mistaken when you "recognised the passengers." It is within the rules to fly empty into and airfield GA and then operate commercially out.
Happy landings!
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Re: Netjets callsigns
Yes, I work for Netjets and have for 4 years. So what!
pilotbear, some people are very anti Netjets because they have come into Europe and invested millions of €uro to set up the company and they have put a lot of pressure on existing charter operators. I know, I used to work for one that Netjets helped to push into failure. Some people say it is unfair competition.....there maybe some axe grinding on these pages.
All I know is that I work for a company with pilots that follow all the rules just like every other professional pilot working for a major airline.
The company can come down like a tonne of bricks on pilots who don't follow SOPs or the regulations, sometime unfairly in my opinion (ref: the level bust 2). Sometimes Netjets is the kindest of all employers; if you're ill, have a compassionate problem or if you working over the festive period they are very generous.
pilotbear, some people are very anti Netjets because they have come into Europe and invested millions of €uro to set up the company and they have put a lot of pressure on existing charter operators. I know, I used to work for one that Netjets helped to push into failure. Some people say it is unfair competition.....there maybe some axe grinding on these pages.
All I know is that I work for a company with pilots that follow all the rules just like every other professional pilot working for a major airline.
The company can come down like a tonne of bricks on pilots who don't follow SOPs or the regulations, sometime unfairly in my opinion (ref: the level bust 2). Sometimes Netjets is the kindest of all employers; if you're ill, have a compassionate problem or if you working over the festive period they are very generous.
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Re: Netjets callsigns
Capt Crash
'Every country's regulations have some benefits; the UK FTLs are less restrictive that the INAC, it's swings and roundabouts.'
ABSOLUTE RUBBISH!
Good name as you obviously are clueless and blinkered!
You do not count the duty time positioning from your home base (e.g. 'LONDON') to where your aircraft is (e.g. ROME). Then your duty starts 'At the aircraft'.
In the UK that positioning is all duty!!
And if you say that’s just like a long haul pilot based in Nice flying out of the UK again they (personally) are responsible to be fully rested for their 1 sector again you would be talking rubbish as you are requested no ordered by the company to go to your aircraft then you can be expected to do 4,5,6 sectors and finish at 01.00 the following morning and again do not say that is rubbish because all you have to do is talk to your own pilots. Why did the Finns leave? Maybe because the trip from Helsinki to the aircraft was too long and too much was expected of them?
Any way I am not posting because I do not like Netjets Europe I love them they train loads of pilots on to their first jet give them 750 hours of good experience, then the pilots can get decent jobs in the environment of their choice after their three year bond!
Who else has pumped so much money into training in simulators in Europe!
I posted because at least if you do post you should tell the truth not LIE there are people / pilots out there who look to this forum for an insight and guidance not rubbish.
Good or bad everyone deserves to walk into a job with their eyes open!
'Every country's regulations have some benefits; the UK FTLs are less restrictive that the INAC, it's swings and roundabouts.'
ABSOLUTE RUBBISH!
Good name as you obviously are clueless and blinkered!
You do not count the duty time positioning from your home base (e.g. 'LONDON') to where your aircraft is (e.g. ROME). Then your duty starts 'At the aircraft'.
In the UK that positioning is all duty!!
And if you say that’s just like a long haul pilot based in Nice flying out of the UK again they (personally) are responsible to be fully rested for their 1 sector again you would be talking rubbish as you are requested no ordered by the company to go to your aircraft then you can be expected to do 4,5,6 sectors and finish at 01.00 the following morning and again do not say that is rubbish because all you have to do is talk to your own pilots. Why did the Finns leave? Maybe because the trip from Helsinki to the aircraft was too long and too much was expected of them?
Any way I am not posting because I do not like Netjets Europe I love them they train loads of pilots on to their first jet give them 750 hours of good experience, then the pilots can get decent jobs in the environment of their choice after their three year bond!
Who else has pumped so much money into training in simulators in Europe!
I posted because at least if you do post you should tell the truth not LIE there are people / pilots out there who look to this forum for an insight and guidance not rubbish.
Good or bad everyone deserves to walk into a job with their eyes open!
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Re: Netjets callsigns
Thank you Melia!
I have been called 'clueless and blinkered' before but I think calling me a liar is a little strong! How about you show me some respect then I'll do the same to you??
You are right, in the UK all positioning is classed as duty but, Netjets is a Portuguese AOC holder. We follow the law laid down in 'Decree Law No 139/2004', do you have a copy? In the absence of Subpart Q in Jar Ops (maybe you can post me a link to this subpart??) Netjets has to follow something, so the company follows national law.
Article 15 of 'Decree Law No 139/2004' talks about positioning but, the company has an agreement with the INAC regarding starting the tour. The management knows there are issues with the first day of a tour and they have gone some way to address it. This argument has been done to death many times before on these BB.
As for the Finns leaving, I know nothing of that.
And, you are right again, everyone should walk into a job with their eyes open to the good and bad elements of a company. I lost my Netjets rose tinted glasses a few years ago, I post no lies, just facts as I see them.
I have been called 'clueless and blinkered' before but I think calling me a liar is a little strong! How about you show me some respect then I'll do the same to you??
You are right, in the UK all positioning is classed as duty but, Netjets is a Portuguese AOC holder. We follow the law laid down in 'Decree Law No 139/2004', do you have a copy? In the absence of Subpart Q in Jar Ops (maybe you can post me a link to this subpart??) Netjets has to follow something, so the company follows national law.
Article 15 of 'Decree Law No 139/2004' talks about positioning but, the company has an agreement with the INAC regarding starting the tour. The management knows there are issues with the first day of a tour and they have gone some way to address it. This argument has been done to death many times before on these BB.
As for the Finns leaving, I know nothing of that.
And, you are right again, everyone should walk into a job with their eyes open to the good and bad elements of a company. I lost my Netjets rose tinted glasses a few years ago, I post no lies, just facts as I see them.