Business Aviation Lifestyle
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Big Boab regarding being with the family,some Corporate jobs give a month on month off roster or something similar.means you spend uneven but long stretches of qualitytime with the wife and kiddies.Also long stretches alone in a foreign land wher you stabnd out like a sore thumb but are probably living in good luxury accomodation paid for by the owner.If you are a flexible person,anadaptable and patient driver and can live with expecting the unexpected than Corporate might well be for you
the stewardesses in Coporate are prettier also
the stewardesses in Coporate are prettier also
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It is my experience that whenever someone utters the line, "it takes a certain type of person" that bad news is to come.
To summarize, corporate crew can expect:
1. No schedule
2. No time off
3. No support
4. No respect
5. No duty rest
6. No life outside work
This leads me to wonder, exactly, what type of person does it take?! Not a very smart one. Sorry to be negative but seems quite narcissistic to me, particularly for those with actual family or friends outside work.
To summarize, corporate crew can expect:
1. No schedule
2. No time off
3. No support
4. No respect
5. No duty rest
6. No life outside work
This leads me to wonder, exactly, what type of person does it take?! Not a very smart one. Sorry to be negative but seems quite narcissistic to me, particularly for those with actual family or friends outside work.
Join Date: May 2004
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Dockjock:You do have a point
This saying "it takes a certain type of person" is quite valid nowdays.
Generally speaking there arent too many companies/private owners who respect you and your private life. Now dont get me wrong there still are some fine operations and owners but more and more you have to sell your soul for money. But, If you are willing to bendover and take it occasionally then the above statement is probably valid.
HS
This saying "it takes a certain type of person" is quite valid nowdays. Generally speaking there arent too many companies/private owners who respect you and your private life. Now dont get me wrong there still are some fine operations and owners but more and more you have to sell your soul for money. But, If you are willing to bendover and take it occasionally then the above statement is probably valid.
HS
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Quote Dockjock:
This leads me to wonder, exactly, what type of person does it take?! Not a very smart one.
............................................................ ....
Right....but since I´m to stupid for an airline, I´ll stay in executive.
Still better than any other job.
This leads me to wonder, exactly, what type of person does it take?! Not a very smart one.
............................................................ ....
Right....but since I´m to stupid for an airline, I´ll stay in executive.
Still better than any other job.
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what type of person does it take?! Not a very smart one
So, leading on from that, does one take it that those who work in the corporate/executive world are stupid? ( and possibly narcissistic)
Or do those clever, intelligent people who work in the commercial world make wild assumptions?
Or do those clever, intelligent people who work in the commercial world make wild assumptions?
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I've done 17 years of commercial flying, only 1 of those has been in an airline. Its corporate all the way for me - mainly for the better package and time off.................
I must be stupid
I must be stupid
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This leads me to wonder, exactly, what type of person does it take?! Not a very smart one.
Sad that you should think this way. I know a few corporate flight attendants (all ladies) and I happen to think that they are incredibly intelligent. They are smart to understand human psychology, supress their own iritatations and pride, know every little quirk and taste of their VIP pax. They know that a bad moment can end their jobs-- they can not afford to have a bad day, and they are survivors. Make no mistakes-- they are no ditzes. I wish more pilots had these qualities.
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I know that most people aren't necessarily given the "choice" as to what their career ends up being. It is mostly a combination of luck or lack thereof, timing, and of course for a select few the choice as to what company they end up working for.
But what I'm saying is that given the choice, I cannot understand why a normal person with normal goals of a family life, friends, time off to spend with kids, relax, and plan a bbq in the backyard for next weekend etc. would choose corporate aviation given the above conditions.
"It takes a certain type of person" to accept the fact that you are at someone's beck and call 24/7! Yes- a narcissist!
Compare this to airline flying where you get:
1. A monthly roster
2. Defined vacation time
3. Support of an operations/dispatch centre
Is it easier- you bet! But at least your life is your life and not your job is your life. Sure you lose the autonomy that is gained when working in a small flight department. But for what? Work is work and sure you should like it but to me airline flying seems to offer the overall better fit to someone who has the above human needs. No, an airline pilot can never brag to his internet buddies about planning a last minute trip to Dubai on the back of a napkin...small price to pay.
But what I'm saying is that given the choice, I cannot understand why a normal person with normal goals of a family life, friends, time off to spend with kids, relax, and plan a bbq in the backyard for next weekend etc. would choose corporate aviation given the above conditions.
"It takes a certain type of person" to accept the fact that you are at someone's beck and call 24/7! Yes- a narcissist!
Compare this to airline flying where you get:
1. A monthly roster
2. Defined vacation time
3. Support of an operations/dispatch centre
Is it easier- you bet! But at least your life is your life and not your job is your life. Sure you lose the autonomy that is gained when working in a small flight department. But for what? Work is work and sure you should like it but to me airline flying seems to offer the overall better fit to someone who has the above human needs. No, an airline pilot can never brag to his internet buddies about planning a last minute trip to Dubai on the back of a napkin...small price to pay.
Aviator Extraordinaire
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Ok Dock, you are right if I was smart enough I would have gone to work for a major airline, yup that’s the only way to go. But I was not smart enough to go to work for:
Braniff
Eastern
Pan American
TWA
But I could have been smart enough to go to work for:
US Air, in bankruptcy, large pay cuts for pilots, now no retirement.
Delta, barely staying out of bankruptcy, large pay cuts, greatly reduced retirement.
United, well there no real reason to go on is there? I should hope you get the idea by now.
I love being a corporate pilot, I work for a really great boss, I have a lot of time off, we get scheduled vacations, my wife travels with me on many trips and I make more money than most American flag carrier captains. And that’s not counting the semi-annual bonus, which has been as high as 75% of my annual salary. (Not to mention green fees)
And just for your information I left a job as a captain on a Boeing 727 to take my current job. It’s not what you fly; it’s what you get paid and the life style.
However I am very happy for you, being so smart and all.
Braniff
Eastern
Pan American
TWA
But I could have been smart enough to go to work for:
US Air, in bankruptcy, large pay cuts for pilots, now no retirement.
Delta, barely staying out of bankruptcy, large pay cuts, greatly reduced retirement.
United, well there no real reason to go on is there? I should hope you get the idea by now.
I love being a corporate pilot, I work for a really great boss, I have a lot of time off, we get scheduled vacations, my wife travels with me on many trips and I make more money than most American flag carrier captains. And that’s not counting the semi-annual bonus, which has been as high as 75% of my annual salary. (Not to mention green fees)
And just for your information I left a job as a captain on a Boeing 727 to take my current job. It’s not what you fly; it’s what you get paid and the life style.
However I am very happy for you, being so smart and all.
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you guys are completely off the mark. this is an age old argument. Neither is better or worse than the other. They are different lifestyles. There are great airline, cargo and corporate careers as there are the opposite. I know plenty of corporate pilots that are very happy doing what they do. Stop knocking each other. Just my .02.
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Oops, sorry if I gave the impression that I somehow cast any sense of superiority or any type of degradation towards my airline brothers. If I did so I apologize, that was not my intent.
Well all fly airplanes for a living; whither one is a young flight instructor at a small flight school to a Space Shuttle pilot. I think very few of us do this for the money or the life style; we do it because we love to fly.
So to infer that some people lack the intelligence to be an airline pilot just struck me as very immature and I (just as immaturely I must say) responded in kind.
So why don’t we just start over.
My corporate life style is excellent and I love my job.
Thank you semperfido!
Well all fly airplanes for a living; whither one is a young flight instructor at a small flight school to a Space Shuttle pilot. I think very few of us do this for the money or the life style; we do it because we love to fly.
So to infer that some people lack the intelligence to be an airline pilot just struck me as very immature and I (just as immaturely I must say) responded in kind.
So why don’t we just start over.
My corporate life style is excellent and I love my job.
Thank you semperfido!
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I agree entirely with semperfido and only want to add a couple of things.
1 what suits one may not suit the other, meaning the obvious, it takes one kind of person to be a corporate pilot and another to be an airline pilot. I don't understand where this special comes from.
2 When you (Dockjock) make posts here you really should make a bit of reasearch before because what you say is for the most part wrong
quote:
"To summarize, corporate crew can expect:
1. No schedule
2. No time off
3. No support
4. No respect
5. No duty rest
6. No life outside work"
I have flown for a few corporate companies and this is my experience.
1. I have always had a monthly roster except for my first company
2. Not for any company have I worked more then 20 days a month and generally overtime above 15-18 days (presently above 12days)
3. In all except the first company have I had an operations department doing my plans and other planning such as hotels, visa, etc, etc.
4. I have gained respect from passengers, handlers, colleges, friends, wife, family, I think the only people that don't respect me are airline pilots.
5. I, and my company, comply with CAP371
6. I have wife, child, friends, play sports, fish and other hobbies, and I do have BBQ's with friends.
As far as airlines I don't know because I have not done the research.
1 what suits one may not suit the other, meaning the obvious, it takes one kind of person to be a corporate pilot and another to be an airline pilot. I don't understand where this special comes from.
2 When you (Dockjock) make posts here you really should make a bit of reasearch before because what you say is for the most part wrong
quote:
"To summarize, corporate crew can expect:
1. No schedule
2. No time off
3. No support
4. No respect
5. No duty rest
6. No life outside work"
I have flown for a few corporate companies and this is my experience.
1. I have always had a monthly roster except for my first company
2. Not for any company have I worked more then 20 days a month and generally overtime above 15-18 days (presently above 12days)
3. In all except the first company have I had an operations department doing my plans and other planning such as hotels, visa, etc, etc.
4. I have gained respect from passengers, handlers, colleges, friends, wife, family, I think the only people that don't respect me are airline pilots.
5. I, and my company, comply with CAP371
6. I have wife, child, friends, play sports, fish and other hobbies, and I do have BBQ's with friends.
As far as airlines I don't know because I have not done the research.
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Give it a rest con-pilot.
If the business aviation lifestyle is so wonderful, which it evidently is, why does it take "a certain type of person" to do the work? I have never met a more passive-agressive, and at times overtly aggressive group than those that defend business aviation to airline pilots. A little big man complex you can call it.
I apologive for calling you not smart. That was off the mark and not true. And there are CERTAINLY advantages to business aviation in job security can often be better than in airlines, as evidenced by your list of bankrupt/defunct airlines. But we all know no corporate flight department has even been downsized right?
The facts still stand though that when the original poster inquired about the "business aviation lifestyle" the key words that came up, at least in my mind, were negative ones.
Just my opinion but then chacun son gout!
If the business aviation lifestyle is so wonderful, which it evidently is, why does it take "a certain type of person" to do the work? I have never met a more passive-agressive, and at times overtly aggressive group than those that defend business aviation to airline pilots. A little big man complex you can call it.
I apologive for calling you not smart. That was off the mark and not true. And there are CERTAINLY advantages to business aviation in job security can often be better than in airlines, as evidenced by your list of bankrupt/defunct airlines. But we all know no corporate flight department has even been downsized right?
The facts still stand though that when the original poster inquired about the "business aviation lifestyle" the key words that came up, at least in my mind, were negative ones.
Just my opinion but then chacun son gout!
Aviator Extraordinaire
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Dock old buddy I did get it a rest, if you had bothered to read my last post.
So why don't we just move on, Ok.
By the way, what is a BE02?
So why don't we just move on, Ok.
By the way, what is a BE02?
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DJ,
You seem to have a "chip" on your shoulder. I have been furloughed and downsized both. I can tell you there are both good and bad jobs in both realms. Either direction can have great rewards. You have a small sample here in this forum and a few neg comments means nothing. I know plenty of corp pilots that are far better off in every way than many airline pilots, but I am sure that the opposite is true as well. Its really a stupid, useless argument.
I would tell a young person starting out to try some of each and just follow your passion. After all very few people end up where they started out. Thats all.
You seem to have a "chip" on your shoulder. I have been furloughed and downsized both. I can tell you there are both good and bad jobs in both realms. Either direction can have great rewards. You have a small sample here in this forum and a few neg comments means nothing. I know plenty of corp pilots that are far better off in every way than many airline pilots, but I am sure that the opposite is true as well. Its really a stupid, useless argument.
I would tell a young person starting out to try some of each and just follow your passion. After all very few people end up where they started out. Thats all.
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I've spent the first 8 years of flying in various airlines, from charter to major. After a serious downsizing, switched to executive more by chance than design..
Whilst most things in above posts are true in some way, they mostly miss the point about executive flying in my opinion.
Yes, sure, the free time at home is more difficult to manage generally on a private jet, but the real difference for me is the job itself!
I already had quite a serious background in Ground ops and Dispatch before coming to the private jet cockpit, but the things you learn in a month of duty around the world are many!
This month, we had a heavy maintenance check on the aircraft. Apart for some well-deserved holidays, I had to learn about:
- Fungus contamination in fuel tanks, and the products available to fight it.
- Various methods of refurbishing and renovating an aircraft interior.
- Pros and cons of a new paint job, various ways of priming and painting an aircraft.
- Familiarize myself with JAA regulations about electronic flight bags.
- Interacting with maintenance managers, interior designers, avionics specialists
The list goes on and on, and I'm not even gonna start on the stuff you learn about local regulations for landing and overflight around the world, etc.. etc..
I just seems to me that if you like the flying business, you get to see much more of it in and around a business jet than in an airliner.
Now, on the other hand, hanging around BKK with 15 cabin ladies instead of 1, that was nice, too...
As for pay and free time, you get what you negotiate for, i guess....
As an aside: having been a regular reader in various pprune forums for quite some time now, it seems to me most people tend to post opinions about salary which are quite inflated... I've caught more than on colleague of mine expressing the view that XXX'XXXUSD was the minimal acceptable wage for some job or other, while I happen to know they themselves earn about 20 to 30% less... So, take those posts about money with a grain of salt...
Cheers,
Whilst most things in above posts are true in some way, they mostly miss the point about executive flying in my opinion.
Yes, sure, the free time at home is more difficult to manage generally on a private jet, but the real difference for me is the job itself!
I already had quite a serious background in Ground ops and Dispatch before coming to the private jet cockpit, but the things you learn in a month of duty around the world are many!
This month, we had a heavy maintenance check on the aircraft. Apart for some well-deserved holidays, I had to learn about:
- Fungus contamination in fuel tanks, and the products available to fight it.
- Various methods of refurbishing and renovating an aircraft interior.
- Pros and cons of a new paint job, various ways of priming and painting an aircraft.
- Familiarize myself with JAA regulations about electronic flight bags.
- Interacting with maintenance managers, interior designers, avionics specialists
The list goes on and on, and I'm not even gonna start on the stuff you learn about local regulations for landing and overflight around the world, etc.. etc..
I just seems to me that if you like the flying business, you get to see much more of it in and around a business jet than in an airliner.
Now, on the other hand, hanging around BKK with 15 cabin ladies instead of 1, that was nice, too...
As for pay and free time, you get what you negotiate for, i guess....
As an aside: having been a regular reader in various pprune forums for quite some time now, it seems to me most people tend to post opinions about salary which are quite inflated... I've caught more than on colleague of mine expressing the view that XXX'XXXUSD was the minimal acceptable wage for some job or other, while I happen to know they themselves earn about 20 to 30% less... So, take those posts about money with a grain of salt...
Cheers,
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Business aviation lifestyle
I think one of the main attractions of the corporate aviation lifestyle is that you have more of an opportunity to be your own boss, and therefore more job satisfaction.
If this is to be considered narcissitic, so be it. Does it appear to be anymore narcissistic than the left seater of a large commercial airline who insists on being called Captain by everyone on the crew, insists on getting on the crew bus first, checking in first etc etc? Hmmm..
While there is still respect for the chain of command in corporate, everyone is a little more on an even footing, and a hell of a lot more considerate. Dare I even say, human?
If this is to be considered narcissitic, so be it. Does it appear to be anymore narcissistic than the left seater of a large commercial airline who insists on being called Captain by everyone on the crew, insists on getting on the crew bus first, checking in first etc etc? Hmmm..
While there is still respect for the chain of command in corporate, everyone is a little more on an even footing, and a hell of a lot more considerate. Dare I even say, human?