10 killed in Caravan crash
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This is from the NTSB website
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NTSB Identification: DCA02MA003. The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number DMS.
Scheduled 14 CFR Part 135: Air Taxi & Commuter
Accident occurred Wednesday, October 10, 2001 in Dillingham, AK
Probable Cause Approval Date: 1/23/03
Aircraft: Cessna 208, registration: N9530F
Injuries: 10 Fatal.
The airplane was parked outside on the ramp the night before the accident and was subjected to rain, snow, and temperatures that dropped below 32 degrees F. Other pilots whose airplanes were also parked outside overnight stated that about 1/4 to 1/2 inch of snow/frost covered a layer of ice on their airplanes the morning of the accident. Because of these conditions, ramp personnel deiced the accident airplane with a heated mixture of glycol and water. The PenAir ramp supervisor who conducted the deicing stated that he believed the upper surface of the wing was clear of ice but that he did not physically touch the wing to check for the presence of ice. Investigators were unable to determine whether the accident pilot visually or physically checked the wing and tail surfaces for contamination after the accident airplane was deiced. However, the airplane's high-wing configuration would have hindered the pilot's ability to see residual clear ice on the surface of the wing after the deicing procedures. Company records indicate that the certificated commercial pilot completed his initial CE-208 flight training 2 months before the accident and had accumulated a total of 74 hours in this make and model of airplane. The airplane, with the pilot and nine passengers onboard, crashed shortly after takeoff from runway 01. A witness observed that the airplane's flight appeared to be normal until the airplane suddenly pitched up, rolled 90 degrees to the left, and yawed to the left. The airplane then descended nose-down until it disappeared from view. Data from the engine monitoring system revealed that the maximum altitude obtained during the accident flight was about 651 feet mean sea level. The airplane crashed in a level attitude. Investigators found no evidence of pre-impact failures in the structure, flight control systems, or instruments. Further, examination of the engine and propeller revealed no pre-impact failures and that the engine was running when the airplane hit the ground.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
an in-flight loss of control resulting from upper surface ice contamination that the pilot-in-command failed to detect during his preflight inspection of the airplane. Contributing to the accident was the lack of a preflight inspection requirement for CE-208 pilots to examine at close range the upper surface of the wing for ice contamination when ground icing conditions exist
___________________________________________________
NTSB Identification: DCA02MA003. The docket is stored on NTSB microfiche number DMS.
Scheduled 14 CFR Part 135: Air Taxi & Commuter
Accident occurred Wednesday, October 10, 2001 in Dillingham, AK
Probable Cause Approval Date: 1/23/03
Aircraft: Cessna 208, registration: N9530F
Injuries: 10 Fatal.
The airplane was parked outside on the ramp the night before the accident and was subjected to rain, snow, and temperatures that dropped below 32 degrees F. Other pilots whose airplanes were also parked outside overnight stated that about 1/4 to 1/2 inch of snow/frost covered a layer of ice on their airplanes the morning of the accident. Because of these conditions, ramp personnel deiced the accident airplane with a heated mixture of glycol and water. The PenAir ramp supervisor who conducted the deicing stated that he believed the upper surface of the wing was clear of ice but that he did not physically touch the wing to check for the presence of ice. Investigators were unable to determine whether the accident pilot visually or physically checked the wing and tail surfaces for contamination after the accident airplane was deiced. However, the airplane's high-wing configuration would have hindered the pilot's ability to see residual clear ice on the surface of the wing after the deicing procedures. Company records indicate that the certificated commercial pilot completed his initial CE-208 flight training 2 months before the accident and had accumulated a total of 74 hours in this make and model of airplane. The airplane, with the pilot and nine passengers onboard, crashed shortly after takeoff from runway 01. A witness observed that the airplane's flight appeared to be normal until the airplane suddenly pitched up, rolled 90 degrees to the left, and yawed to the left. The airplane then descended nose-down until it disappeared from view. Data from the engine monitoring system revealed that the maximum altitude obtained during the accident flight was about 651 feet mean sea level. The airplane crashed in a level attitude. Investigators found no evidence of pre-impact failures in the structure, flight control systems, or instruments. Further, examination of the engine and propeller revealed no pre-impact failures and that the engine was running when the airplane hit the ground.
The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
an in-flight loss of control resulting from upper surface ice contamination that the pilot-in-command failed to detect during his preflight inspection of the airplane. Contributing to the accident was the lack of a preflight inspection requirement for CE-208 pilots to examine at close range the upper surface of the wing for ice contamination when ground icing conditions exist
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Searchers find plane with bodies onboard in Lake Erie
Last Updated Tue, 27 Jan 2004 18:31:42
POINT PELEE, ONT. - The bodies of 10 people killed in a plane crash off Pelee Island, Ont., in Lake Eire more than a week ago have been found.
The Ontario Provincial Police say underwater video footage of the fuselage show the victims are still on board. The plane was found Monday, mostly intact and upright on the lakebed.
It's unclear how and when the plane and its victims will be recovered. Provincial police divers must first assess the condition of the plane.
Severe weather is still putting a damper on the recovery efforts.
Canadian Coast Guard Capt. Darryl Clow says there are gale force winds on Lake Erie and drifting ice is becoming a problem.
Written by CBC News Online staff
Last Updated Tue, 27 Jan 2004 18:31:42
POINT PELEE, ONT. - The bodies of 10 people killed in a plane crash off Pelee Island, Ont., in Lake Eire more than a week ago have been found.
The Ontario Provincial Police say underwater video footage of the fuselage show the victims are still on board. The plane was found Monday, mostly intact and upright on the lakebed.
It's unclear how and when the plane and its victims will be recovered. Provincial police divers must first assess the condition of the plane.
Severe weather is still putting a damper on the recovery efforts.
Canadian Coast Guard Capt. Darryl Clow says there are gale force winds on Lake Erie and drifting ice is becoming a problem.
Written by CBC News Online staff
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I heard that Georgian's OC has been restored. Is this true?
Just for some background.-- Air Georgian flies scheduled freight and is a subcontractor mainly for the company that distributes bank documents to every bank branch in Ontario, and then flies them all back every evening. Other freight is then 'piggy backed' on these runs.
This is a 12 month a year operation, and the company and its pilots are very experienced with the icing issues. If they did not fly every time 'light freezing drizzle' was forcast , they would be cancelling a lot of flights.They would lose their contract and be replaced by Navjo operators (single pilot to save weight).
This condition is forcast 'just in case' any time a winter warm front comes through Ontario, and the times that Georgian fly in the morning frequently makes them the weather observer for everyone else in Ontario in the morning.
By definition, freezing precip implies a temperature above zero somewhere above you, so it normally makes sense to climb into the unfrozen rain to deice if you get stuck. I have flown into Toronto in a caravan with a completely clean plane while airliners were arrivng complaining about 'severe icing'.
You have to watch the outside air temp and take action as soon as you see an inversion. The caravan is certified for known icing and is safe, in my opinion, as long as you are very careful to keep the speed up, the flaps still (preferably up) and a careful eye on outside air temp. I have seen 4 inches of ice on the thing, (I got caught out) and found that it flew OK, but I didn't experiment with speed under 120 or move extend the flaps. Needless to say that once on the ground, I didn't take off again.
Incidentally, the windshield deicing plate on the caravan is terrible. I personally would not fly any kind of circling approach with ice on this plane.
There is a step on the side of the plane and one uses it to get a look (and feel) at the top of the wing. It's easy to do, and Van drivers do it a lot if they suspect ice.
I also used to use the bugspray bottle with glycol in it. In the old freighter version there was a hot air vent just behind the pilot's seat. If you stand your bottle on it, the glycol stays warm and works much better.
Just some background and my opinion only (for the lawyers out there)
Rosbif
Just for some background.-- Air Georgian flies scheduled freight and is a subcontractor mainly for the company that distributes bank documents to every bank branch in Ontario, and then flies them all back every evening. Other freight is then 'piggy backed' on these runs.
This is a 12 month a year operation, and the company and its pilots are very experienced with the icing issues. If they did not fly every time 'light freezing drizzle' was forcast , they would be cancelling a lot of flights.They would lose their contract and be replaced by Navjo operators (single pilot to save weight).
This condition is forcast 'just in case' any time a winter warm front comes through Ontario, and the times that Georgian fly in the morning frequently makes them the weather observer for everyone else in Ontario in the morning.
By definition, freezing precip implies a temperature above zero somewhere above you, so it normally makes sense to climb into the unfrozen rain to deice if you get stuck. I have flown into Toronto in a caravan with a completely clean plane while airliners were arrivng complaining about 'severe icing'.
You have to watch the outside air temp and take action as soon as you see an inversion. The caravan is certified for known icing and is safe, in my opinion, as long as you are very careful to keep the speed up, the flaps still (preferably up) and a careful eye on outside air temp. I have seen 4 inches of ice on the thing, (I got caught out) and found that it flew OK, but I didn't experiment with speed under 120 or move extend the flaps. Needless to say that once on the ground, I didn't take off again.
Incidentally, the windshield deicing plate on the caravan is terrible. I personally would not fly any kind of circling approach with ice on this plane.
There is a step on the side of the plane and one uses it to get a look (and feel) at the top of the wing. It's easy to do, and Van drivers do it a lot if they suspect ice.
I also used to use the bugspray bottle with glycol in it. In the old freighter version there was a hot air vent just behind the pilot's seat. If you stand your bottle on it, the glycol stays warm and works much better.
Just some background and my opinion only (for the lawyers out there)
Rosbif
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No. ON 02/04
For release January 27, 2004
TRANSPORT CANADA LIFTS
RESTRICTIONS ON GEORGIAN EXPRESS LTD.
TORONTO - Transport Canada today announced the reinstatement of Georgian Express Ltd.'s Air Operator Certificate, effective immediately.
Transport Canada suspended Georgian Express' operating certificate on Thursday, January 22, 2004, following the fatal accident at Pelee Island, subject to demonstration by the company that it meets all regulations and standards. The special purpose audit conducted by Transport Canada over the past few days has confirmed that the company has systems in place enabling it to meet all requirements.
Transport Canada has increased the frequency of inspection of the air operator and will continue to monitor Georgian Express' operations closely.
Georgian Express continues to cooperate fully with the department. Today's decision does not preclude further action at a later date.
Transport Canada will continue to support the investigation underway by the Transportation Safety Board.
For release January 27, 2004
TRANSPORT CANADA LIFTS
RESTRICTIONS ON GEORGIAN EXPRESS LTD.
TORONTO - Transport Canada today announced the reinstatement of Georgian Express Ltd.'s Air Operator Certificate, effective immediately.
Transport Canada suspended Georgian Express' operating certificate on Thursday, January 22, 2004, following the fatal accident at Pelee Island, subject to demonstration by the company that it meets all regulations and standards. The special purpose audit conducted by Transport Canada over the past few days has confirmed that the company has systems in place enabling it to meet all requirements.
Transport Canada has increased the frequency of inspection of the air operator and will continue to monitor Georgian Express' operations closely.
Georgian Express continues to cooperate fully with the department. Today's decision does not preclude further action at a later date.
Transport Canada will continue to support the investigation underway by the Transportation Safety Board.
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Good post, Rosbif. However, as you may have read, with no recovery of the aircraft or victims yet, to speculate on cause is akin to throwing darts blindfolded.
Once the engine is analysed and the pilot's autopsy is complete, then we'll have narrowed the probable cause a bit for the lawyers.
P.S. The difference between a dead lawyer in the middle of the road and a dead snake in the middle of the road? ---Skid marks in front of the snake!
Once the engine is analysed and the pilot's autopsy is complete, then we'll have narrowed the probable cause a bit for the lawyers.
P.S. The difference between a dead lawyer in the middle of the road and a dead snake in the middle of the road? ---Skid marks in front of the snake!
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Quite right Skid.
I'm not trying to speculate as to the cause of this one, only trying to put some background as I see it re. the sort of things that you think/worry about in this type of operation.
It would be very disappointing if the TSB ends up citing the direct cause of this accident, rather than calling for a complete overhaul of the air taxi/703 system in Canada, which I feel is long overdue.
Whether relevant to this accident or not, we all know that the duty time regs are an anenforceable joke, for example.
It's all very sad, and I hope that at least some good comes of it.
I also think that giving Georgian their OC back after their 3rd hull loss is a bit silly, however nice their paperwork looks. I think that Three 'strikes and you're out' should apply here, and might at least adjust the attitude of all air taxi operators in Canada.
I'm not trying to speculate as to the cause of this one, only trying to put some background as I see it re. the sort of things that you think/worry about in this type of operation.
It would be very disappointing if the TSB ends up citing the direct cause of this accident, rather than calling for a complete overhaul of the air taxi/703 system in Canada, which I feel is long overdue.
Whether relevant to this accident or not, we all know that the duty time regs are an anenforceable joke, for example.
It's all very sad, and I hope that at least some good comes of it.
I also think that giving Georgian their OC back after their 3rd hull loss is a bit silly, however nice their paperwork looks. I think that Three 'strikes and you're out' should apply here, and might at least adjust the attitude of all air taxi operators in Canada.
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Quote:
Transport Canada has increased the frequency of inspection of the air operator and will continue to monitor Georgian Express's operations closely.
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Hmmmmm..
Chuck E.
Transport Canada has increased the frequency of inspection of the air operator and will continue to monitor Georgian Express's operations closely.
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Hmmmmm..
Chuck E.
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Yes, Pigboat it truly does.
I am especially comforteted by their reassurances that after a two working day in depth investigation they decided to lift the suspension. My question is why not wait two more days and save all the damage this has caused the employees of that company?
I am in no way insinuating that this company are not in compliance as I have no direct knowledge of their operation.
What gives me cause for doubt is when they (TC ) do any investigation of their own operaton it takes many months to come up with a determination that at best is so fuzzy even they are unable to interpet what the end result was.
Yeh, I am skeptical and wonder if there is any CYA in their " investigation "?
Chuck
I am especially comforteted by their reassurances that after a two working day in depth investigation they decided to lift the suspension. My question is why not wait two more days and save all the damage this has caused the employees of that company?
I am in no way insinuating that this company are not in compliance as I have no direct knowledge of their operation.
What gives me cause for doubt is when they (TC ) do any investigation of their own operaton it takes many months to come up with a determination that at best is so fuzzy even they are unable to interpet what the end result was.
Yeh, I am skeptical and wonder if there is any CYA in their " investigation "?
Chuck
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Well lets look at one of their own internal reports on how they operate. ( I have a copy in my posession that somehow made to my mail box. )
Here is an exact quote from a TC internal document.
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" Management dictates how inspectors are to act " has laid the foundation for mistrust and paranoia. Examples given include:
Behind closed doors meetings between managers and companies. "
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There is lots more but that one item gives me some food for thought.
Chuck Ellsworth
Here is an exact quote from a TC internal document.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
" Management dictates how inspectors are to act " has laid the foundation for mistrust and paranoia. Examples given include:
Behind closed doors meetings between managers and companies. "
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
There is lots more but that one item gives me some food for thought.
Chuck Ellsworth
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Plane wreckage, bodies lifted from Lake Erie
Last Updated Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:30:15
WINDSOR, ONT. - The fuselage of a plane that crashed into Lake Erie almost two weeks ago was raised from the frigid waters Thursday night, still containing the bodies of 10 people who died in the crash.
Ontario Provincial Police dive crews had attached straps to the fuselage earlier in the week.
On Thursday afternoon they began to lift it and by nightfall the plane was on the deck of the coast guard ship Samuel Risley.
Capt. Darryl Clow told a media briefing Friday that it's been a long difficult search and recovery mission. Now the investigation of the crash will begin, he said.
"The recovery of the aircraft will bring information vital to a determination of cause for this tragedy, with the goal of preventing further accidents," he said.
The investigation will now shift to the regional coroner in Windsor, Ont., and the Transportation Safety Board. The accident happened in bad weather shortly after the plane took off from Pelee Island on Jan. 17.
Eight passengers aboard the Georgian Express Flight 126 were returning from a hunting trip when the plane went down. The other two victims were the pilot and a friend from Los Angeles who came along for the ride.
On Friday, a memorial service for the 10 victims was held at the crash site. An iron cross made by searchers and a wreath were dropped into the water.
Search and recovery crews have also created an iron cross to be placed at the bottom of the lake near the crash site.
Written by CBC News Online staff
Last Updated Fri, 30 Jan 2004 17:30:15
WINDSOR, ONT. - The fuselage of a plane that crashed into Lake Erie almost two weeks ago was raised from the frigid waters Thursday night, still containing the bodies of 10 people who died in the crash.
Ontario Provincial Police dive crews had attached straps to the fuselage earlier in the week.
On Thursday afternoon they began to lift it and by nightfall the plane was on the deck of the coast guard ship Samuel Risley.
Capt. Darryl Clow told a media briefing Friday that it's been a long difficult search and recovery mission. Now the investigation of the crash will begin, he said.
"The recovery of the aircraft will bring information vital to a determination of cause for this tragedy, with the goal of preventing further accidents," he said.
The investigation will now shift to the regional coroner in Windsor, Ont., and the Transportation Safety Board. The accident happened in bad weather shortly after the plane took off from Pelee Island on Jan. 17.
Eight passengers aboard the Georgian Express Flight 126 were returning from a hunting trip when the plane went down. The other two victims were the pilot and a friend from Los Angeles who came along for the ride.
On Friday, a memorial service for the 10 victims was held at the crash site. An iron cross made by searchers and a wreath were dropped into the water.
Search and recovery crews have also created an iron cross to be placed at the bottom of the lake near the crash site.
Written by CBC News Online staff
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Investigation is still ongoing, with the last TSB update from June 1st.
http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/media/commun...4/a04h0001.asp
The investigation has so far determined that the structure of the aircraft was sound at the time of the flight; the aircraft engine was operational and producing power; and the aircraft was overweight at the time of departure from Pelee Island.
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I recall reading in the Globe and Mail a while ago, that the a/c was some 1000 lbs. overweight at the time of the crash. I'll see if I can find the article and post it.
9820 pounds, 1270 pounds over gross
Recent studies have shown that the current values for standard passenger weights are no longer representative of the general population and that actual passenger weights may be routinely underestimated. In the case of Georgian Express Flight 126, the calculated weight for the people on board using standard weight was 1833 pounds; the actual weight of the persons on board with their clothes was 2400 pounds – a difference of 567 pounds.
