Farnborough Airport.
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Farnborough Airport.
Can anybody give me some information about operating internationally (from the continent and the US) in and out of Farnborough Airport just outside London; aircraft is a Falcon 50?
Thanks.
Thanks.
a little more specific.......
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Ok, sorry I should have been a little more specific.
1. Hours of operations:
A. I understand normal hours are Mon.-Tue. 0700 – 2200 Sat.-Sun 0800 – 2000. Are these hard times or can the airport operate later or earlier with prior notice?
2. Customs and immigration:
A. Can I clear customs/immigration inbound from the United States?
B. From a EU country?
C. Or anyplace else outside the EU?
3. Any special local regulations regarding noise abatement policies? (Such as limited APU running times or length APU operations, etc.)
4. General overall comments from any corporate/charter operators that use Farnborough.
5. Realistic driving time from Farnborough to the West End of London. The Chelsea area to be exact
Stuff like that.
Thanks.
1. Hours of operations:
A. I understand normal hours are Mon.-Tue. 0700 – 2200 Sat.-Sun 0800 – 2000. Are these hard times or can the airport operate later or earlier with prior notice?
2. Customs and immigration:
A. Can I clear customs/immigration inbound from the United States?
B. From a EU country?
C. Or anyplace else outside the EU?
3. Any special local regulations regarding noise abatement policies? (Such as limited APU running times or length APU operations, etc.)
4. General overall comments from any corporate/charter operators that use Farnborough.
5. Realistic driving time from Farnborough to the West End of London. The Chelsea area to be exact
Stuff like that.
Thanks.
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Farnborough
Con-pilot
Answers to your questions
1. Actual closing time is 20:00, 22:00 is available but at High cost per 30 mins extension time.
2. All OK
3. No APU restictions except when airport closed
4. Can be very difficult to get runway slots due to local Nimbies limiting movement numbers and priority given to base operators especially at weekends
5. one to two hours dependant on traffic.
As an alternative why not have a look at EGKB (Biggin Hill) opening times are similar, 07:30 - 21:00 local with extensions available weekdays. Full customs and immigration. Driving time to London is about the same but best of all there are no slots and sensible landing fees
No, I don't work for Biggin but in my experience it is a much better airport for Biz Jet clients that want to get to London.
Hope this helps
JB.
Answers to your questions
1. Actual closing time is 20:00, 22:00 is available but at High cost per 30 mins extension time.
2. All OK
3. No APU restictions except when airport closed
4. Can be very difficult to get runway slots due to local Nimbies limiting movement numbers and priority given to base operators especially at weekends
5. one to two hours dependant on traffic.
As an alternative why not have a look at EGKB (Biggin Hill) opening times are similar, 07:30 - 21:00 local with extensions available weekdays. Full customs and immigration. Driving time to London is about the same but best of all there are no slots and sensible landing fees
No, I don't work for Biggin but in my experience it is a much better airport for Biz Jet clients that want to get to London.
Hope this helps
JB.
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Northolt slots can be very hard to come by - maybe something to do with all the QS aircraft???
Worth giving Jet Aviation a go at Biggin Hill - their hangar facilities are very good.
Worth giving Jet Aviation a go at Biggin Hill - their hangar facilities are very good.
Last edited by 727 exec; 25th Aug 2003 at 06:58.
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Farnborough
Chinny
Whilst I would agree that Northolt is better, closer, to London it still suffers from the same dreaded slot problem that plagues Farnborough, unless you happen to be based there, which most of us aren't so we don't stand a chance.
Plus any location that relies on a motorway connection to London today is a real no brainer.
Regards JB
Whilst I would agree that Northolt is better, closer, to London it still suffers from the same dreaded slot problem that plagues Farnborough, unless you happen to be based there, which most of us aren't so we don't stand a chance.
Plus any location that relies on a motorway connection to London today is a real no brainer.
Regards JB
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Slot problem at Farnborough?
Not sure what is meant here - do you mean runway slots or en-route slot times?
During my time at Farnborough, we had often to deal with poor slots and missed slots due to pax faffing. We used to phone the CFMU direct and get additional 5 or 10 minutes for aircraft without any problems. Not sure much has changed since.
Only "problem" with Biggin Hill is the often high number of GA aircraft in the circuit which can lead to delays. Also only one ILS on 21 - if 03 in use (like today) means a visual manouvre due to the proximity of Gatwick.
Only other thing to compare is costs and the service given. TAG are expensive I am told, but you do get a very good VIP service. They have new hangars and a new terminal being built.
As for the hours of operation - as said you have to pay to extend. Also the times are set by byelaws so you cannot land at 2201Hrs BY LAW!
Any ATC comparisons on Biggin or Farnborough PM me.
You can fly in a heli from Farnborough to London Battersea Helicopter (very near Chelsea) in about 12 minutes. A few heli companies based at the two local GA fields to Farnborough..... if your people are feeling flush!
There are a lot of operators from the Arabic regions who are regulars. The Dubai BBJ and Sharjah A319CJ seem to spend a lot of time there.
Not sure what is meant here - do you mean runway slots or en-route slot times?
During my time at Farnborough, we had often to deal with poor slots and missed slots due to pax faffing. We used to phone the CFMU direct and get additional 5 or 10 minutes for aircraft without any problems. Not sure much has changed since.
Only "problem" with Biggin Hill is the often high number of GA aircraft in the circuit which can lead to delays. Also only one ILS on 21 - if 03 in use (like today) means a visual manouvre due to the proximity of Gatwick.
Only other thing to compare is costs and the service given. TAG are expensive I am told, but you do get a very good VIP service. They have new hangars and a new terminal being built.
As for the hours of operation - as said you have to pay to extend. Also the times are set by byelaws so you cannot land at 2201Hrs BY LAW!
Any ATC comparisons on Biggin or Farnborough PM me.
You can fly in a heli from Farnborough to London Battersea Helicopter (very near Chelsea) in about 12 minutes. A few heli companies based at the two local GA fields to Farnborough..... if your people are feeling flush!
There are a lot of operators from the Arabic regions who are regulars. The Dubai BBJ and Sharjah A319CJ seem to spend a lot of time there.
Last edited by AlanM; 12th Sep 2003 at 16:53.
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I would like to thank everybody for your replies.
Currently we are operating in and out of Luton. I personally have no problems with Luton, however my boss has two houses in Chelsea very near the Thames and complains constantly about the driving time back and forth to Luton.
Somebody told him that Farnborough is a lot closer, looking at a London area map I don’t see that it is that much closer. Northolt RAF is the closest, however even he understands about the problems there.
So, let me ask another question? What kinds of obstacles are there for Biz-jets operating in and out of Heathrow? Heathrow is also a lot closer to his houses than Luton or Farnborough.
Thanks in advance!
Currently we are operating in and out of Luton. I personally have no problems with Luton, however my boss has two houses in Chelsea very near the Thames and complains constantly about the driving time back and forth to Luton.
Somebody told him that Farnborough is a lot closer, looking at a London area map I don’t see that it is that much closer. Northolt RAF is the closest, however even he understands about the problems there.
So, let me ask another question? What kinds of obstacles are there for Biz-jets operating in and out of Heathrow? Heathrow is also a lot closer to his houses than Luton or Farnborough.
Thanks in advance!
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OK, as a start, I'm not a local, and don't know all the intricacies, BUT:
I operated a G200 to the London area the last 2 years, and have tried pretty much every airport... Northolt and Biggin were good, as long as you know the restrictions.
Heathrow is a nightmare for several reasons:
- High handling charges (800£ at Swissport last time)
- Very long taxi times
- Unreliable parking assignment (different area for me every time)
- Slots difficult to get at the right time
- They just don't want us there....
Luton, all in all, is still the ticket for me, and if the boss doesn't like the driving time, I organize a Helo for him: 6 minutes to the city center, unbeatable!!
Just for grins, you can try Heathrow a couple of times, see what the Boss says after the first 45 minutes ATC + taxi delay.....
Cheers,
I operated a G200 to the London area the last 2 years, and have tried pretty much every airport... Northolt and Biggin were good, as long as you know the restrictions.
Heathrow is a nightmare for several reasons:
- High handling charges (800£ at Swissport last time)
- Very long taxi times
- Unreliable parking assignment (different area for me every time)
- Slots difficult to get at the right time
- They just don't want us there....
Luton, all in all, is still the ticket for me, and if the boss doesn't like the driving time, I organize a Helo for him: 6 minutes to the city center, unbeatable!!
Just for grins, you can try Heathrow a couple of times, see what the Boss says after the first 45 minutes ATC + taxi delay.....
Cheers,
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Heathrow-not a good option unless your boss doesn't mind the expenditure-Small lear at peak time ,less than an hour on the ground=£1200.Inbound flight was late hence missed slots-the next best that they could offer was 24hrs later-took the risk with eng running and got a cancelled airline slot-not the way to go but the pax wanted to take the risk-his call-that is definately the exception.Fly Md is spot on --they don't want us there-don't earn enough from us!!!
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How About.....
LCY?
Or am I talking outta my A**se? Just wondering if a Falcon50 could operate in and out of London City. Yes I know its the good old steep approach, but haven't the airport formed an Air Taxi service themselves using Dassault Falcons? Not entirely sure what they are using....2000's or what.....
Or am I talking outta my A**se? Just wondering if a Falcon50 could operate in and out of London City. Yes I know its the good old steep approach, but haven't the airport formed an Air Taxi service themselves using Dassault Falcons? Not entirely sure what they are using....2000's or what.....
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LCY
The Falcon 50 can easily operate into and out of LCY. London City do own (or its owner does) a Falcon 900EX that is available for charter. As far as I'm aware it cannot operate except privately in or out of the airport, I think the landing is limited because of the factoring required on dry/wet runways (I'm an engineer not a pilot) by our UK CAA. Our company did a lot of studies on LCY some years ago but, and my memory has faded somewhat, I seem to remember the only difficulty for the Falcon 50 was the limited range when departing LCY. It's not just a steep approach but also a short runway with noise issues.
However, Shell Aircraft have been operating their Falcon 50's into and out of LCY for quite a few years now although not on the UK register. If I remember correctly you have to have an approved (by your authority) Flight Manual Supplement, procedure manual, plus some training approaches (elswhere) before LCY will accept you. At one time the FAA had not approved the Dassault Supplement for the Falcon 50 but this may have changed --anybody know? Parking also used to be difficult/impossible but I understand this has been improved.
If anyone is that interested I could dig out the details next week.
Mike Echo
However, Shell Aircraft have been operating their Falcon 50's into and out of LCY for quite a few years now although not on the UK register. If I remember correctly you have to have an approved (by your authority) Flight Manual Supplement, procedure manual, plus some training approaches (elswhere) before LCY will accept you. At one time the FAA had not approved the Dassault Supplement for the Falcon 50 but this may have changed --anybody know? Parking also used to be difficult/impossible but I understand this has been improved.
If anyone is that interested I could dig out the details next week.
Mike Echo
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Parking at LCY now hugely improved with the new apron at the west end of the airfield.
With regards to G-LCYA - only seems to operate to places such as Dublin. I am guessing that this is because of the length of runway (1319m) and weight/noise issues.
G-LCYA has operated out of FAB on transatlantic flights - and then repositioned back to LCY.
Shell are of course regulars in their FA50 - in fact it was training yesterday! Again though, tends to do short hope to AMS etc.
FAB still the best bet I think - we work a lot of helicopters out of FAB for London Battersea Heliport. Timed one yesterday as 8 minutes!!
Lots of local operators with Heli's based less than 5 mins from FAB (PREMIAIR and ALAN MANN to name but 2!)
With regards to G-LCYA - only seems to operate to places such as Dublin. I am guessing that this is because of the length of runway (1319m) and weight/noise issues.
G-LCYA has operated out of FAB on transatlantic flights - and then repositioned back to LCY.
Shell are of course regulars in their FA50 - in fact it was training yesterday! Again though, tends to do short hope to AMS etc.
FAB still the best bet I think - we work a lot of helicopters out of FAB for London Battersea Heliport. Timed one yesterday as 8 minutes!!
Lots of local operators with Heli's based less than 5 mins from FAB (PREMIAIR and ALAN MANN to name but 2!)
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Have tried Biggin, Farnborough, Heathrow Gatwick and Luton, haven't tried Northolt. Prefered access for the boss was from Farnborough up the M3 to his flat near Hyde Park, handy for me to Fulham. Tag handling pretty efficient, they have now moved across to their new ramp and temp VIP terminal, which is still fairly easy to get to by road. Never had too many delays out of either Farnborough or Biggin.
Heathrow and Gatwick I would give a miss to, very expensive, and I think prefer exec to go elsewhere.
I drive out past LCY to my son-in-laws and the traffic can be a real bear, haven't tried it yet but did the approach in the sim just for good measure.
Agree that there tend to generaly be more light GA around at Biggin than Farnborough.
Heathrow and Gatwick I would give a miss to, very expensive, and I think prefer exec to go elsewhere.
I drive out past LCY to my son-in-laws and the traffic can be a real bear, haven't tried it yet but did the approach in the sim just for good measure.
Agree that there tend to generaly be more light GA around at Biggin than Farnborough.
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Paterbrat would you happen to know the driving time to the Chelsea area of London (Cheyne Row to be exact.) as compared to Hyde Park from FAB?
Thanks,
Con
Thanks,
Con
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Most days, I can get from Putney to FAB in one hour...Putney to Cheyne Walk is about 20 minutes further...Hyde Park about another 15 minutes - unless it's like last night when it took over an hour Hyde Park to Putney.
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That's about right 72. Con I allow an hour from Fulham, but Fulham Palace road up to Hamersmith can be quite bad, once on the motorway generaly no probs. From the overpass at Hammersmith to Cheyne Walk 20 mins is reasonable. There are times when the traffic is generaly heavier in Lon from 7:30 to about 9:30 and 4:00pm to about 6:00pm. Going back from Farnborough I rarely check because I'm heading home and it doesn't realy matter how long it takes but it seems about the same. Actualy nowadays the traffics bad nearly all the time, it does drop off noticabley in the summer hols though when everybody scarpers, very pleasant.