RAE Farnborough - steeped in history
 

BBC News Online
I imagine there are people in this forum with views on the above - and some interesting stories to share about the old days at RAE Farnborough.


FL

The R.A.E. was also the birthplace of my aviation career!!!!. Apart from this Farnborough is one of the most important aviation heratage sites in the country but no body gives a damm, because the general public and the gutter press think aviation is the work of the devil!.

Just like training apprentices, which gave many of us a good start I life. Heritage is not considered a core business by QuinetiQ:(

Yesterday (7th August) was the 90th anniversary of Samuel Cody's fatal crash at Ball Hill, Farnborough. How things have changed since then!
I have a question to ask, which may well be answered someone interested in the history of Farnborough.
My grandfather, as a schoolboy in the early 1900s, had a classmate whose father was an "aeronautical engineer".Grandfather was often invited to tea at the aforementioned's house.
On several occasions, Samuel Cody was present, deliberating the merits/demerits of the "aeronatical engineer"'s new engine, to be used in one of Cody's "machines".
The location of the house would presumably be near to Farnborough/Ash/Aldershot.
I am intrigued as to the identity of the engineer....any ideas?

Phil H.

RAE Farnborough... also holds a soft spot in my own aviation history.

One of the things I used to do (when on a break) was visit the library next to "A" shed and across the road form the ATC building (N1, of which more later). If you went down a dusty corridor you would enter the "historical" section.

Few people ever went down there but amongst the gems I had the pleasure of reading were hand written test pilots notes on various aeroplanes. I remember very well the notes someone made up for the Shackleton MR3. Lots of red ink and exclamation marks! I've often wondered why.

What has happened to all that? And all the museum "pieces" like the beautifully crafted wooden wind tunnel test models? I saw some of them as well and they were wonderful. Sad to think of them in a skip somewhere.

Back to ATC. When first posted to RAE Farnborough I went through the usual briefing from "Master Spy" (the RAE security people really were paranoid about the Soviets at the time). Next up was to find the ATC building. This I did, noting that some pillock had put the sign by the door on upside down so it read N1 instead of IN.. or so I thought.:rolleyes: Except that it was me that was (still is?) the pillock as all the buildings at the RAE had letters and numbers to identify them. ATC really was the N1 Building:)

Anyway I have many happy memories (and a few stories) of the place, watching the Dak, Comet, Varsity etc doing their various trials. A pity if it's all gone.

rgds BEX

We cannot live by looking back, I know that, but it is hard for me to accept what has happened to the old RAE ‘factory’ site over the last few years.

I started my five year apprenticeship there in 1950 at the age of 17. Then I got the RAF to teach me to fly so that I could go back there on the course at ETPS in 1963. Over the years since then I have been lucky to work for the RAE in a variety of capacities, but the scene at Farnborough in the early 50’s was remarkable. During my apprenticeship I kept a list of all the aircraft types (not marks) that I saw on the airfield. It totalled 104. Not so long ago I met the RAF Wing Commander who was in charge of flying at RAE when I was an apprentice. I told him about my list. “Wrong” he said “it was 106 -you missed a couple”

The Roman Catholic Church has influenced a few youngsters over the years but not (I suspect) as much as the RAE has influenced me.

I've attended many Farnborough events - It's great to have bits if it saved.

Hey Windy don't knock QinetiQ - once you get past the grafted on sales people the old DERA chaps and chapesses are so un commercial they will do almost anything for free :O

I guess I've got mixed reactions.

For my present career its great to fly in with loads of tarmac for parking and a feel of permanency about it.

However like John F, there is more than a tinge of sadness about it when I think back to my days in electronics, when I occasionally worked at Farnborough and there was lots of new equipment around and aircraft to see.

Many of the hangers that I either worked in or visited are now blocked off or just have "mundane" aircraft residing. However, I can recall with much fondness a week spent during the Airshow just being available there in case our equipment went wrong ( it didn't ) whilst the representatives of a certain country were there to view it with the intention of buying it ( they didn't !). There were suggestions that to avoid wasting my week I should do a bit of "stand manning" at the main exhibition site, but fortunately this did not materialise and so I spent the whole week loitering in and around the black hangar observing at close quarters the Red Arrows and the Comet Racer that were all parked in the vicinity.

Happy days!

I'm another who started his career there, in my case as an 18 year old Student Apprentice at the SETC in what had previously been ETPS' buildings. After leaving there, at various times I worked in Aircraft Dept, Base Engineering, Engineering Services (and Aero at Bedford).

The state of the place now is appauling, and I'm not too distressed to be working elsewhere these days - but in it's heyday (although a relative youngster, I was there at the end of that happy period of blue-skies research and constant experimental flying) it was fantastically exciting, and created several generations of Britain's best aeronautical Engineers (although Genghis Sr. who was a rough contemporary of JF but at Supermarine would probably dispute that;-) ).

Having said that, when I was there much of RAE was like a shanty town - presumably it's years of lack of investment of in the buildings and facilities, not the 1990-1995 creation of DRA by Chisholm that did the real damage.

Like Bexil I used to lurk when I had a couple of hours spare in the historical section of the library - what happened to that fantastic collection of old manuals, textbooks and airfield logs? For that matter, what happened to the rest of that amazing library? - I heard an awful rumour a while ago that DERA/Qinetiq had simply disposed of a lot of the older journal collections, which if-true is criminal.

It was always inevitable that RAE would have to change, but complete withdrawl from the main site, closing down all flying, and scrapping much of the library I can't ever forgive as a way of bringing the site into the 21st century.

On the odd occasions I have meetings with anybody from Qinetiq, I make a point of wearing my old RAE tie, just in case it causes offence to any of the management!

G

You want it when?
I have nothing but admiration for the old school employees of QunietiQ. However there aren't many left. Whilst I realise that you can't live in the past, forgetting your history or in this case destroying your skills base can't be good.
I was not actually at Farnborough but at one of the outstations Had I not been able to take up a trade as I did, I would be stuck in an area with no work other than meanial holiday season jobs.
Computer modeling and consultation are fine to a point, but it has limitations as the place I now work at are finding out.
Experimental work needs a certain touch, CAD/CAM is fine where you have an established product but when things don't work quite as planned the ability to make quick modifications on site becomes vital. That's when you find that a Dreadnought file is a bl**dy site more useful than a .DWG file. ;)
Thinking about where some of my fellow ex Apprentices have ended up and the things they are doing, I would say that the money spent on training was well spent.:ok:

I too spent some time in the old R.A.E. library looking at some of the gems there. I am sure that it all ended up with all the stuff from the R.A.E. museum. This was all looked after by Brian Kervell the chief librarian. He retired at about the same time as the R.A.E. wound up. All of the artifacts then went to the Science museum. Shame it didn't stay in the Farnborough area though.

Historic air industry site saved
 

Report in today's Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/st...309812,00.html):

Historic air industry site saved

Maev Kennedy, arts and heritage correspondent
Wednesday September 22, 2004
The Guardian

A £20m scheme was announced yesterday to restore a tatty collection of sheds which hold some of the most important aviation relics in the world.

Scientists, historians and conservationists have been fighting for decades to save the main structures of the former Royal Aircraft Establishment at Farnborough in Hampshire, which was a secret world for almost a century until the site was sold by the Ministry of Defence in 1999, for a reputed £57m.

Work was done there at every stage of 20th century aviation, from giant airships to analysing the wreckage from the 1954 Comet crash, when the problem of metal fatigue at high speeds was first identified.

Samuel Cody flew Britain's first powered controlled aircraft there in 1908, and later there were tests on the Spitfires and Hurricanes which were to play a crucial role in the second world war, and on Frank Whittle's first jet engine.

Under plans announced yesterday by Slough Estates, backed by English Heritage, the campaign group Save and the Farnborough Air Sciences Trust, which includes many scientists who worked at Farnborough, the 10 hectare (25 acre) core of the site will be restored and reused.

The most spectacular structure, the 120 metre (400ft) concrete wind tunnel, with its beautiful nine metre diameter mahogany blades, may have a new life as a theatre and cafe.

The original development proposals for a business park on the site would have involved flattening most of the buildings.

The breakthrough came last year, when many of the structures were listed, some for the second time.

Before the site was sold several were de-listed, a move denounced by conservationists as a scandalous attempt to make it more attractive to developers.

The most spectacular aspect of the new scheme will be a new public park with the extraordinary hangar frame re-erected as a feature.

It resembles a garden pergola, but on the scale of a row of office blocks, and was originally designed to be covered in canvas and used to park airships.

On the basis that actions speak louder than words - where would be a good place to start for example, a PPRuNe action group? Just speaking as I see it to start with but I also understand that with a large sum of money coming from the Lottery the plan might need muscle help too. Is that right?

Would the current attempt to save so much benefit from some of the talented people we have on PPRuNe? Is anyone close enough to it to get an idea of what is going on, what help if any they need and could PPRuNe assist?

Discuss and speak people.

Cody's Tree

During my year at Farnborough I used to often wander past the remains of Cody's tree which had a little fence for protection.

I would look at that tree and imagine Cody tying his elementary aircraft to a selected branch of the tree, climbing aboard and running up the engine. There must be many others who have done the same thing. Oh for a photograph?

Does anyone know how he calibrated a tree branch?

I will be aghast if those irreplaceable remains of Cody's tree have not been preserved and given a place of prominence in an aviation museum.

And what of the Black Sheds?

I was at Farnborough today. Not on the airfield but visiting kin across from the main road.

There is much talk around. From the papers and the locals. Seems that there is a runway extension planned so that the road at the Laffans Plain end could be moved underground! Other ground around there is now being cleared so who can tell.........

The black sheds have almost gone - I say almost because you cannot get close enough to see. The old control tower is still there - as a listed building.

The general view of the place is one of expansion, expansion, expansion. GA move over and let us big boys in! (Maybe!)

I wish. It went in less than 24 hours a while ago. You may be thinking about the 24ft

Ah John, I thought the big grey building with the clock was the control tower - next to the black hangars on the Eastern end of the field. Not so? Thought it was up those stairs that GP Spiers gave me a bol......... telling off one time! :O

Have to say that they are destroying the 'OLD' place with seemingly gay abandon though.

What is the 24ft?

I did my apprenticship at the R.A.E. For the fist two years we were under the tutorage of Reg Weeding and Doug Beckford. Every morning we had two hours of theory lessons. Pinned to the wall was a large picture of a very young John Farley holding a trophy of some sort. Reg and Doug used to say to us "Study hard and you can be just like him!!"..... I didn't and I wasn't!!!!!
I feel that my time spent with Reg and Doug was briliant and their teaching still influences me today.
in the words of Doug Beckford
"Well, my pr**ks a bloater and we'er having fish for tea!"

Rgds Dr.I. (1978-1982)

PPRuNe Pop

Hi.

By the 24 ft I was referring to the 24 ft tunnel which is listed and currently still preserved. Sorry that I relapsed into the vernacular of the place in the early fifties when the tunnels were all just called by the size of the working section - the 8ft or the 13x9 etc. the word tunnel was seemingly just 'understood'

So the 24ft was probably the building you mistook for the Control Tower now that all the stuff between the two is no more!

So Reggie gave you a telling off. We must exchange notes sometime. I expect it was the same one he gave me. His stock of same was limited, but that did mean he was less likely to fluff his lines.

John

Reminds me that at school in the early 80s we had a "Science Society" lecture by a scientist from Farnborough who had been involved in the development of carbon fibre or GRP or some such similar material at Farnbrough in the 1960s.

This chap came on stage looking for all the world as I imagine Mr Honey in Nevil Shute's "No Highway" would look - short, bespectacled, balding and sporting a tie liberally smeared with his dinner... And perhaps just a little eccentric...

"Oh no", we all thought, "this is going to be dreary."

He was brilliant, funny and informative; I quote practically verbatim: 'Well, me and the boys were at work one day, and thought "let's invent carbon fibre..." '

Several weeks later, a dozen of us went to Farnborough to take a look at the lab, etc. I also visited the tower and met the chaps who were Farnborough Radar to whom I listened on my air-band most of the time I wasn't in class...

I was fortunate enough to be flying at Farnborough at the end of its time as an active MoD airfield in 1993/4, albeit by then it was in the hands of the DRA. We ceased active test flying there at the end of March 1994, but installation and maintenance work was still done on some aircraft until October. At the end of the SBAC Airshow that year, the site was still in good repair. However, I was horrified when, on October 18, I returned to fly the final MoD aircraft out of Farnborough (Tornado F2A ZD902). The hangars and many buildings had been stripped bare of manuals and tools, and I understand that most of them were thrown in skips; total desecration! After take-off, we did a low flypast for the enginerrs, who then locked up the hangar, handed the keys in to the guardroom and drove back to Boscombe Down. A very ignominious end to test flying at such a historic airfield.

Poor old Reg. W. died about ten years ago whilst having an operation on his knees. His nephew said the night before he died he was cutting pictures of jet engines out of "Flight" and sticking them into a scrap book!. The last time I saw him he was thinking of taking a L.W.T.R. course at Farnborugh tech to "Keep up with things"!
Every body lost contact with Doug. B. after he moved down to the west country. He must be in his ninetys now, if he's still alive.
He was one of the guy's that built the Miles falcon.

Rgds Dr.I.
P.S. If I ever venture down to Chichester, John you can have your book back!!!

Lom

I have read that a couple of times but am not sure if the dates quite gel. Any mods needed? Was it March 2002 for example?

Dr

I have a fairly long list of missing ones....give me a clue!

John

John,

Whoops! Of course, I meant 1994. Good spot. How time flies.

Thanks and best regards.

L

PS. I have now amended the original post.

Don't do it JF!

Dr I's a stalker!!:E

A thought. There are some good people posting here who have varied and professional backgrounds at RAE. Whilst there is an ex-apprentices association and FAST, do we need some form of ex-RAE association that wraps up boffins, TPs, and others who were at the core of RAE? Whilst one can have too many clubs, a chance for an annual get together and war-story-telling-session sounds worth the effort perhaps?

For that matter, does anybody know if I, as an ex-SETC Student Engineer (rather than apprentice) am eligible for membership of the ex-apprentices association? Edited to say that I've just discovered that I am, courtesy of an Email via www.rae-apprentices.com

G

As a local( well of 7 years) its excellent that something has been preserved. Sadly I witnessed during 2000-2001 once familiar buildings dissapearing on a almost daily basis:* . First the old RAE main office block, through the awfully 60's naval building, the gym and finally the tower. Whats left is the wind tunnel and whats left of the original RAF( thats factory) buildings. Sadly these are off limits at the moment. The owners of the undeveloped( and whats been built is empty) office park, Slough Estates, have the whole site under close scrutiny. Hopefully in the not too distant future it will be restored to its former glory? And the last Black Shed will contain the FAST aircraft collection?

I know you're talking about October here
but all the same...

You'd have been more fortunate to have been based at the other RAE airfield then. If it's possible to use up an airfield's remaining "fatigue life" with one good thrash then ARS made a damn good job of doing so. People who witnessed events at the end of March in both places were shocked at the lack of spirit on show at FRN on the occasion. Perhaps it was ever thus ;)

Farnborough Recollections

Farnborough 1955.

About mid year, the RAF put together an aerobatic team based at Odiham not far from Farnborough. The team leader was a USAF pilot on exchange, Captain Immig. Flying Hunters, the team of four took off from Odiham one day in July and climbed above the usual lower cloud layers to fly some sequences which were to be filmed for TV showing. A Meteor 7 and a Vampire T11 having movie camera operators as passengers accompanied the formation and obtained some good coverage.

By the time all the aircraft had used a goodly proportion of their fuel and started heading for base the pilots found that the weather at low level was rapidly deteriorating. Odiham was equipped only with a VHF Direction Finding system. The Meteor managed to get into Odiham, using a VHF/DF let down. But the Hunters following soon found that Odiham had all but closed with a very low cloud base. By now the formation had broken up into two pairs for easier manoeuvring in cloud. The second pair of Hunters was advised to try for an approach into Farnborough. Farnborough tower had been advised by Odiham of the growing emergency for the Hunters but found it was already overloaded getting its own aircraft down in the worsening weather. Consequently when Blue Three called up with "May Day, May Day, May Day, This is Blue 3 with two diverting from Odiham, request immediate GCA, very low on fuel." Farnborough tower responded almost matter of factly with "Sorry cannot help you I'm afraid. Would you either call Tangmere on emergency or bail out please."

The use of please at the end of that transmission has become a classic in aviation history. Blue 3 responded with " Oh we haven't got enough fuel for that, going to Tangmere emergency channel."

A short while later during a slight break in Farnborough's activities Blue leader came up on Farnborough's frequency saying " Farnborough this is Blue Leader with two from Odiham, can you help us with an emergency GCA?" Farnborough responded with "Roger steer 290. But I may not be able to get you in."

Over the next five minutes Farnborough was able to talk those two down until they became visual and followed through with landings. As they were landing there were a few remarks of appreciation followed by "Blue 2 say after me,” My Father Who art in Heaven!" Blue 2 ran out of fuel taxying.

Blue 3 and 4 managed to get overhead Tangmere where both flamed out. Blue 4 then bailed out. Blue 3 did an engine out spiral descent overhead to break through cloud at about 500 feet. He landed wheels up across the airfield being unable to line up on a runway.

Extract from memoirs.

Memoirs:

Milt, I always enjoy reading of your flying experiences. Am I right in thinking you are in the process of writing up/publishing your memoirs?

If so (allowing for Pprune advertising rules) can you keep us aware of the progress, please.

Cheers

TD&H

Well if you insist!!

A few more Farnborough recollections.
From Memoirs.

After an overnight at Mallala, Ken and I set off for the long grind from Australia to the UK in an RAF Hastings with overnight stops at Darwin, Nogombo Ceylon, Karachi Pakistan, Habaniya near Bagdad Iraq and terminating at RAF Lyneham. We then caught a train into London to check into the Strand Palace hotel, for a week or so, to await the start of the Test Pilots' Course at Farnborough, Hampshire.

We enjoyed looking around London and got to know the staff of RAAF London, meeting in the process our future course member Fred Cousins. Fred was an aeronautical engineer with limited flying experience and we wondered how he was going to cope with the flying on the course.

In early February 1954, Ken and I caught a train south west from London to Farnborough and found our way to the TPS mess, arriving early evening on a Sunday. After checking in to rooms already assigned, we met again in the bar. Initially, we were the only occupants of the bar and we had a few glasses of the warm English brew. Eventually, an older person wandered into the bar and sat on a bar stool a few removed from us. The newcomer was almost bald and Ken, always very outspoken, soon remarked to me in a voice loud enough to be heard by all present, "Hey Milt, wouldn't you think that they would take off their bone-domes to come into the bar?". Bone-dome was the name given to hard flying helmets. The new arrival downed his drink, glared at Ken and stomped out without saying a word. The next day we formally met the fellow. He was no less than Wg Cdr McDonald, the Chief Test Flying Instructor. He glared at Ken again, who sank lower into his chair, whilst giving me a quick look and a suppressed smile.

We had a week of ground school before flying, during which we got to know the other course members. They were mostly RAF/RN with two USAF, two USN, three RCAF/RCN, two Italian, two French, one Egyptian, one Dutch, one Norwegian, a Swede and we four Australians. A most interesting coming together of some of the world's best pilots.

The school was made up of about 10 experienced test pilot tutors, the Chief Test Flying instructor, the Chief Ground instructor, two non test flying qualified flying instructors, a few flight engineers, the Commandant and a small administrative staff. The messing staff were locally engaged civilians. Aircraft maintenance and servicing was carried out by civilians employed by the Ministry of Supply.

The aircraft fleet consisted of two or three each of the following aircraft. Chipmunk, Provost, Vampire, Meteor 7 and 8, Sea Hawk, Hunter F1, Canberra B2, Devon, Pembroke, Valetta, Varsity, Hiller helicopter and Sycamore helicopter. Additionally, there was a small fleet of gliders for recreation flying. The gliders were one each of a two seat Sedburg, an Olympia and a Sky. The Chipmunks were fitted with aero tow hooks and they were the only method by which the gliders could be launched.

The airfield has history going back to the infancy of British and world aviation. Preserved on the airfield were the stumpy remains of Cody's tree. A branch of this tree was used by the pioneer aviator Cody as a rough measure of the thrust developed by his engine/propeller combinations. He would tie the tail of his aircraft to the branch and the extent of bending of the branch during ground running would be an indication of thrust being developed.

Farnborough had one main runway of about 8000 ft. Two other cross runways of about 5000 ft were rarely used and often were occupied by parked aircraft. The airfield was the home of the Royal Aircraft Establishment which conducted a great variety of research and development flying. The National Gas Turbine Establishment had its premises on the western side of the airfield. TPS mess and ground school occupied a small area on the southern side of the airfield, adjacent to the main road from the town of Farnborough to Farnham. The extensive Aldershot army base was to the south across that road.

The airfield had gently rising ground to the south so that the TPS mess, about 500 yds from the centre of the main runway, was about 100 ft higher on a low ridge line. This emphasised the slight depression of the airfield which was in an area known as Lappins Plains. Approach lights on gantries at each end of the runway followed rising ground. The famous black sheds of the RAE nestled around the north eastern end of the main runway. A busy Civil airfield named Blackbushe had its main runway roughly parallel to Farnborough's about 10 miles to the north west. Radio aids were a VHF direction finder and Precision Search Radar, without any height finder, but which was used in conjunction with target heights at approach ranges as a limited Ground Control Approach facility.

During the war and after for a period of about fifteen years, there was a minimum of control and regulation over qualifications needed before flying an aircraft. This was especially so within the test pilot fraternity although pressures were building from the Central Flying schools and the Training areas to introduce more regulation. At this time in the UK and particularly at ETPS, it was accepted that any would be test pilot would have been carefully chosen by his parent service and should have no trouble in being able to handle any aircraft in the school's fleet, given a set of pilots notes and some brief hints from the tutors.

The two instructors on the course were instructors in the pure sense and were more concerned with instrument flying standards and ratings than in correcting any hazardous flying habits of the students. It was expected however, that each student would have at least one preliminary flight with one of the instructors before being let loose.

I had not flown a Meteor previously so on 10 February I was assigned for a flight with one of the instructors, Flt Lt Jack Hindle, in Meteor 7 No 337. This flight was more an introduction to the area and the air traffic system than to the aircraft which I found easy to manage. The next day I was assigned to fly an area familiarisation flight solo in another Meteor 7. The rest of the month was occupied with first flights in other aircraft and my first instrument rating for jet aircraft. In 10 flights for the month I had flown 8 different types.

By March 1955 I was through with the instructors and well into test flying techniques with another four types in the log book.

One of the flights in March was my introduction to gliding. ETPS had firmly established that gliding experience for test pilots was fundamental to their extended appreciation of the atmosphere and the effects of the atmosphere on aircraft handling and performance. This became very obvious as some gliding experience was accumulated.

For those who had not flown gliders previously it was necessary that one of the instructors conduct a brief conversion. A two seater side by side open cockpit Sedburg served this purpose. So it was on the 31 March that a gliding session was arranged at a small grass airfield not far from Farnborough.

I had a good look over the Sedburg with the assistance of the instructor Flt Lt Hindle and we were soon lined up behind a Chipmunk and attached by a nylon rope about 200 ft long. The rope had a metal ring on each end attached to manual release units. The intention was to be towed to about 2500 ft in a low tow position, release from the tow and take advantage of any thermals which we might find.

Just after take off, we climbed up over a line of trees adjacent to the airfield and I was soon interested in peering over the left side of the cockpit at the houses which filled the local area. The instructor wanted to demonstrate something and not having intercom he meant to get my attention by tapping my right thigh with his gloved left hand. As he reached across to do this he inadvertently had his fingers pick up on a wire cable attached to a ball like knob close to my right knee. This was the tow cable release. I felt the tow cable release at the same time as he prodded my thigh, quickly looked down at his hand and looked at him incredulously as the extent of our predicament was realised.

All previous training insisted that we force-land close to straight ahead. But all there was ahead were more and more back yards of houses. Hindle lost no time in converting excess airspeed into some extra height as we wheeled around in a turn back manoeuvre. As we straightened out at about 200 feet above ground it didn't take long to sense that our descent angle was going to put us into the trees along the edge of the airfield.

I pulled my straps tight and selected a spot on the coaming to support my head just before the impending crash. Of course I was watching Hindle's handling of the situation very closely and doing a continual reassessment of the situation.

As we approached close to and still slightly above those treetops reaching up for us Hindle eased the nose down as though to dive into a backyard garden. The tree tops rose above us and my thoughts were,"What a way to go!".

Just short of the trees now towering above us, Hindle eased up the nose. The top branches clutched loudly at the wheels and rear fuselage as we stalled, descending rapidly to thump hard on the ground on the very edge of the airfield.

That was my conversion to gliders. I refused to fly any more glider flights with an instructor.

Hello Milt

Flew into Farnborough yesterday and I'm sure you would hardly recognise the old place now. As FL has stated, things are changing rapidly.

I never have much time to spend at Farnborough, normally just dropping in to pick up or drop off passengers. Where is Cody's Tree?

Having spent many a hour instructing in Sedburghs (we always had the 'h' in the spelling) and learned to fly in Chipmunks it nice to feel I can relate a very little to your experiences. However that's as far as the similarity goes.

The point is, are your memoirs to be published, or do we have to read through all your posts here on pprune?

Cheers H

You ask where is Cody's tree.

Originally it grew out of the ground just short of the 25 threshold.

Now it has been moved to the brand new QuinetiQ site (which has replaced the old RAE buildings) which is off the right hand side of the far end of 25 WSW of the new tower

JF

JF, thank you. I shall have to see if it can be seen next time we're into Farnborough.

BTW 25 is now 24, do we blame that change on trying to forget Farnborough's past, or is it only a deviation from the variation.

Regards, H

TD&H

Memoirs? They started in response to "What did you do Dad?"
Now they are quite a tome and I am now trying to get into chronological order the 5 years I spent in the USA managing the acquisition of the RAAF's F-111 fleet. That could be a book on it's own.

Publication - if I can manage it between researching the Flight Test History of Australians and finishing a book on Delfosse Badgery, one of our early aviation pioneers who learned to fly at Hendon in 1913. You may have seen a couple of my posts on Del in the fascinating thread describing Mazzy's approach to solo.

Going TDY for a week to visit son of Delfosse Badgery, who as a CFS instructor was able to take his 80+ yr old father for a flight in a dual Vampire.

More later if I sense there is enough appetite.

I've got an appetite to hear moreMilt

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...andCodyuse.jpg

TD&H

I think the 25/24 issue is the only thing about which we need not be suspicious!

JF

Paging Milt.....

You seem to back in the circuit, so how long before your audiences get to read some more of your memoirs?

JF, couldn't you add a few recollections also? BTW, have you had any books published? Or plan to?

John Farley - thanks for that superb shot of Cody's Tree and the Brabazon.

Farnborough ETPS Memories Continued.

We soon settled into a daily routine. Each day started with a batman waking me up with a cup of tea. After breakfast in the mess, we would all go to an hour-long lecture on some aspect of test flying. Following the lecture, we would walk or drive down to the TPS hangars to check in with our assigned tutor. My first tutor was Sqn Ldr Bill Sheehan. The tutors would brief us on handling and performance techniques, the finer points of report writing and would launch us on flights to make meticulous measurements and observations.

The students without former jet experience and from countries using a different language than English had assimilation difficulties which the rest of us rapidly came to recognise. We did our best to help compensate by many fascinating discussions on flying, English social customs and behaviour.

Major Franki Frankini from Italy had an unusual background in that he had been a wartime fighter pilot with combat experience. Discussions revealed that he had actually flown a mission in which one of our tutors had been one of his adversaries in a dogfight. He also graphically described an occasion when he manoeuvred on to the tail of a Mustang and "I shoot and I shoot all my bullets into the Mustang and it just fly away." Later, following Italy's capitulation, Franki volunteered to fly Mustangs with the Allies against the Germans. So here was a fighter pilot who flew on both sides during World War II.

Confusion often occurred with air traffic control instructions despite the care taken by the controllers to use standard words and phrases with clear English diction.

It was not uncommon for pilots to mistake Blackbush, the civil airfield 10 miles from Farnborough, for home base. I found myself doing an initial approach on Blackbush one misty afternoon. I soon recognised my error as the layout of the airfield became clear. Not so with the Egyptian, Vickery Zarr, He followed through to land and when he went to turn off the runway on to a taxiway with which he was familiar at Farnborough, the resultant radio chatter became really hilarious.

It was normal practice under these circumstances for Farnborough to retain control over the offending pilot whilst liaising with Blackbush over a telephone tie-line. So those of us on the same frequency became party to a fascinating sequence of instructions and responses.

Blackbush was base to a fleet of civil Ambassador type aircraft and it became obvious that one of these was preparing for take off at the holding point when Farnborough said to Vickery " Take the next runway exit left and then the taxiway back to the holding point." Vickery said " I do not understand where I am and what I should do. I have some fuel left and can fly again for 20 minutes." Farnborough came back with "Roger, taxi straight ahead to the Ambassador." Vickery did not respond so Farnborough repeated the instruction. Vickery then came back in a faltering voice with "Please, please, I do not er er I do not wish to see the Ambassador today."

One of the tutors on the radio broke in with " Vickery you idiot, he means the Ambassador aircraft waiting for take off at the holding point." Meanwhile the rest of us had convulsions of laughter at the expense of the hapless and confused Egyptian.

We Australians were sometimes confused by different meanings given to words. The RAE were experimenting with a rapidly configurable inflatable aircraft capable of being carried around on a light road vehicle. The wings were inflatable and normally folded into a container. The engine was fitted with a small air compressor which inflated the wings and fuselage to maintain form and strength of its delta shape. Some intrepid test pilot would occasionally take it for a flight. The craft was always referred to by the British as the Durex Delta. This to us conceptualised a delta aircraft held together by Durex brand transparent sticky tape as marketed in Australia at the time. But the British did not have Durex sticky tape. Their Durex was a brand of condom.

I soon learned about this when my comments in mixed company one evening about having seen the Durex delta flying that day were followed by someone repeatedly kicking me in the shins beneath the table.

Flying in the northern hemisphere often puzzled me as I found I was less able to instinctively know where north should be. I had to take extra care to refresh my orientation with the compass. To this day I am unable to specify the basis for having some in-built directional capacity whilst in the southern hemisphere.

Week ends would mostly start on Saturday mornings at breakfast with an assessment of the weather as it would suit gliding activities. If suitable, those of us left in the mess would organise ourselves to get out the gliders and Chipmunks and get into the air. Two Landrovers were available to tow the glider trailers for the Sky and the Olympia.

On a good day with thermals, the pilot whose turn it might be to fly would be towed to 3/4000 ft and cast off. He would then disappear down wind to an undefined destination. Those left behind would amuse themselves with local flights in the Sedburg. The arrangement then was that each pilot, on landing somewhere, would call back to the mess by telephone, give their position and if an aero tow was possible they would be towed back by Chipmunk. If down in a field from which an aero tow was not possible then two of us would set off in a Landrover towing the appropriate glider trailer. I saw a lot of the English countryside during those Landrover retrieval trips. Also met a lot of interesting people.

All of this gliding activity didn't cost us a penny. There were fuel credit cards for the Landrovers and we were reimbursed expenses for meals, refreshments and any incidentals.

There were lots of visits to aircraft and engine manufacturing plants during the year. These were always of great interest, permitting us to see the latest in technology. Solid state electronics were just starting to have an impact on designs and rapid advances were also taking place with the jet engine. The capability for an aircraft to sustain level flight at supersonic speed was not far off.

To be continued.

Great memories Milt.
Of ETPS the hangar is still there. It was used as the main civil hangar until the new complex was built northiside around 3 years ago. It is now just used by the BAe comm's flights who's HQ is now in the ajacent old Comet water tank area.
Codys tree was replaced by a metal replica in the 1960's. Some of the original still remains with museums. The replica was moved from outside the black sheds to the new MoD site in 1997. There is now a good museum in G1 building( the RFC WW1 HQ on Farnborough Road), it has a couple of Hunters,Lightning T5, Jaguar, Gnat and some noses.
Aircraft used to mistake Blackbushe for Farnborough until the ILS and decient(??!) radar were put in when the airport became civil in 99. Although it seems that Northolt will close and 32sqn/Queens Flight will move in next year. So it may become partially military again?
Keep those memories coming.