Ironic given that this is a thread about FRN. We're all one happy family though :O

John F: It was 101 deck landings by my count. Not everything we needed to learn required us to put the jet on the deck at the end of every approach. It was, as you and I discussed at Boscombe Down the Friday after we got back, real test flying.

NH

Well you should know the numbers (unless of course you were looking for your pen on the floor of the hut while J got in another 7)

I take your point about Farnborough, but the RAE was the RAE wherever its folks did their thing................

JF

John: You say "you are actually looking at a pic of the world's first fully automatic recovery and VL of a jet aircraft to a ship."

Accepting that it was not a success in service, but didn't that honour belong to the Yak38 ?

Henry

I wondered if anybody might pickup on that. Well done you.

My understanding of the Forger was that the crew had to set themselves up pretty close to the boat and tracking properly to lock on to a boat Tx that then carried out the decel trans and VL. Bit like their auto dockings in space.

That was obviously a great achievment but fell rather short of a full blown auto recovery to a ship and VL from a random position at considerable range.

Mind you they did do it all with a hydro mechanical computer under the cockpit floor that controlled all three engines. When I mentioned same to the then Pegasus designer back in the 70s he remarked "Yeh - and we are working on a developing a hydaulically controlled TV set too".

Regards

John

Here's an interesting point, how many RAEs were there?

I worked at Farnborough and Bedford (of which there were two, the airfield and the tunnel site).

I recall visiting RAE Pyestock (previously known as NGTE), and believe there was RAE Aberporth.

Was West Freugh part of the RAE empire?


Where else was part of this wondrous organisation that taught so many of us our trade?

G

Aberporth and Wet Through certainly were RAE, as were Llanbedr and Larkhill.

Then there were also operating airfields at places such as Pershore and Defford, which were RRE/RSRE - airfields supporting Malvern.

Along with A&AEE/A&AEE/DGT&E/DERA Boscombe Down, they are all one big happy QQ family now, of course. (Less Llanbedr).

I bet I've missed a couple of RAE outstations, too. Was Cobbett Hill one?

Back to the Top

The last sortie before Christmas always used to be a good one. It was usually an instument test flight, with the regular crew on board. After the test sortie had been flown, it would turn into a crew training trip. Usual suspects, smoke and fumes, fire, simulated loss of an engine etc.

However, just before the engineer ditched all non-essential power, the loadie would ensure that the essential did include the oven.

Returning to Farnborough as the last aircreaft home, we would declare a practice emergency. We would come to a halt on the runway, and a practice emergency evacuation would follow, appart from the volunteer casualty. She (usually a she for some reason :E ) would "hide" inside the aircraft, and the firemen and medics would then try and find her, treat some imaginary appauling injurg, carry her out and load her into the ambulance.

Exercise over, we would be joined by our ground crew from Western Sqn, the loadie would then return to the aircraft, and bring out a tray of hot mince pies from the oven, and cold beers from the ramp. The traditional MRF Christmas beers on the runway would then follow! We were usually joined by ATC, fire, medics airfield ops as well as our ground crew. Beers drunk, the aircraft would be towed back to Western Sqn, and all return to MRF for the traditional Christmas Barrel.:ok:

This even transformed from a humble barrel from number one officers' mess to a mini beer festival. I think our record was almost 19 real ales on tap! If arranged far enough in advance, it was even possible to get partners on site for the event! If you invite the police, then there are no problems! Survivors breakfast followed some time next morning, followed by the clear up.

Happy days.
Was never quite the same again after the move down to Boscombe.
:sad:

Snoopy,

Amen several times over to your last.

Just for interest, your old home now appears to be a storehouse for outdated QinetiQ Annual Reports.

lm

Snoopy Caravan
 

Lightningmate

When I was last at Farnborough, the control caravan out of Snoopy, that I spent several thousand hours flying around the world in, was still sitting in the car park behind Y46.

I was wondering if it was still there?

I know there are mutterings elsewhere to get the aircraft to either Duxford or Cosford after Marshalls have finished their engine trials for the A400M. I just thought it would be nice if Snoopy and the van could be re-united?

:ok:

Snoopy,

Walked around the back of Y46 today, no caravan, just a length of pipe stretching across the car-park.

I thought the Cloggies were after Snoopy? From your comment, it seems not.

lm

I'd gathered the Cloggies angle also, also as a replacement for the tragic Xv179, but no, a test bed she apparently will be.

Ah, 30 years ago at a fag free boarding school a few miles south of Guildford, your totally bored, absolutely non-academicaly inclined, spotty teenager found his maths and English lessons enlivened by:

Mr Farley and colleagues in and out of Dunsfold in a variety of Hawks and Harriers (and if I recall also the Blue Fox Hunter(s))and once, in '76, the Miles Student. John F, do you recall that instance and why?

Various oddities from Farnbrough - Varsities and a strange Herc with a Barbars' Pole proboscis which may seem familiar to this thread, and the odd Hunter and other types;

Extremely low 707s and the like transiting in best hooligan fashion from Gatwick for TLC at Dan-Air's Lasham health spa for geriatric airliners.

The other classrooms faced the wrong way.

Oh, and David Lockspieser's..., er, ODD looking LDA-01 which blew the Bursar's mind as it flew overhead. "I've been working too hard" he muttered...

Happy days!

Hi all
there was an short artical on Marshals plans for "Snoopy" in Flight international two weeks ago. According to the artical they will be removing the barbers pole and overhead radome before converting it into th A400M engine test bed. So when they have finished with her she will not be the plane we all know and love!!!.

On a slightly different note the toy company Corgi are releasing a limited edition Buccaneer in R.A.E. livery! They have done a few others in the past. (Comet, Viscount, C-47 and the Tornado). I just hope that the do Seaking mk4 ZB507!

Rgds Dr.I

P.S. any ex apprentices out there I will be at the reunion in September, look out for the drunk with a R.A.E. tie on!!

It looks like a set of RAE decals are no being offered by Xtradecals for the upcoming Airfix 1/72 scale TSR-2.

John Farley at Farnborough
 

I remember what I think was John's last flight out of Farnborough in a Harrier. He was taking G-VTOL back to Dunsfold after an airshow, and as he taxied out, asked if we had a bit of concrete available for his departure. He was duly lined up at the beginning of the runway (then 25 now 24) and came to a halt right on the edge of it. His clearance from radar was something like 'straight ahead to 2000ft then left turn for Dunsfold'
As I expected, he executed one of his 'rocket' takeoffs, lifting vertically and rotating until the aircraft was perpendicular whilst climbing away. As he accelerated towards the sky, he rolled the aircraft until its belly pointed at Dunsfold, then simply pushed over to the horizontal on reaching 2000ft, immediately accelerating to about 450kts! It took him maybe 3 minutes to reach Dunsfold. Awesome, and something that no other aircraft (or pilot?) can do

RAE Farnborough 24ft Wind Tunnel Opens
 

BBC TV "South Today" carried an item about the restoration of the great 24ft wind tunnel on the old RAE Farnborough site on the evening programme today.
It looks like its restoration is complete and is now open to the public to admire and dream about heady days of real British Aviation....
Can't find anything on the web to say it's open now, including now't on the Farnborough Air Sciences Trust site.
Anything about this anywhere else ?
The FAST museum at Farnborough of saved RAE artefacts is well worth a visit...

Try gulf5uk; I think he's a FAST member.

They have! (Sort of). It's a Mk3, XV370:

http://www.tricatus.co.uk/Images07/33412a.jpg

Here's a site with lots more piccies and details: Click here

And there's even a couple available on eBay at the moment (although I'm sure that plenty of other places sell them as well): eBay link. (No connection to the seller, BTW). :ok:


HTH,

B73

May be wrong, but I think '370 broke its back doing an engine off landing in about '90 or '91, but then if it's in ETPS markings rather than RAE -----!

Oooops. :O

Re Post #134 "Awesome, and something that no other aircraft (or pilot?) can do"

If memory serves, this was the basis of the Lightning FCS , ( OR-946 I think.) Near vertical climb, roll and push onto heading. All done with Euler angles.....

Standing by to be corrected .:)

PW

They have just released a Canberra in ETPS colours too, but at SIXTY quid I think I will wait for a proper RAE Canberra!

http://www.corgi.co.uk/CorgiSite/RAF...rs/AA34706.htm


Rgds Dr I

That's not ETPS, Doc - that's A&AEE. Not the same at all, even if same location.

Oh, and B73: XV370 wasn't even a Mk1, let alone a Mk3; she was a US built SH-3D, and IIRC even had "Sikorsky" on the yaw pedals. I hadn't come across the suggestion of a broken back in the early 90s, and am sure I'd have heard about it if so. I believe she's now sprayed grey and down at HMS Sultan as a trainer.

Still. none of this is RAE-relevant so back to the plot...

A&AEE, ETPS the same thing, Boscombe rabble!

When I was on the Chopper flight at Farnborough we had Seaking XV371. She also had Sikorsky molded on the pedals. A good aircraft that one, always ready to go. We also had a brand new MK4, ZB507 as well. That one was the typical friday afternoon aircraft, a bag of ......! They sent her off to Bardufoss to do some cold weather trials and on the first flight she sheared a engine to gear box drive. We changed the gear box only to find that the factory supplied unit was goosed too! So we took her to bits and loaded her into a Belfast to bring her home. I'd still like a model of her though!!

Rgds Dr I

Could be it was '371 that got broke then! I know it was one of the Sea Kings doing a practice 'throttle computer freeze' onto the now disused runway 29; controller (ex Navy) didn't see it happen for some reason and the pilot (current Navy) was reluctant to say anything on the r/t, (too much chance that OC Flying might be earwigging) so it happened 'quietly'!!

I seem to remember some scandle about 370 having an accident. XV371 was airworthy right up un till she flew to the RN training school where she is today (Fleetlands?) Sniff:{
371 was the first aircraft I declard servicable too. She took off and landed almost immediatly with a MRGB problem! Not a good start to my certifieing career!

Rgds Dr I

Whilst we are on the subject of Farnborough “Choppers”. Hear is one of my most precious possessions, a watercolour painting of two of “My” Farnborough helicopters.
I got it at an Aero jumble at Yeovilton back in 1984. A guy called R Finch who was based at Shoreham-by-sea painted it.
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m...07/wessex1.jpg
XL728 was the prototype Gnome powered Wessex and it ended its life on Pendine Sands Rocket range.
ZA941 was the last Westland build Puma. It crashed in France killing two RAE engineers, who were on board.

Rgds Dr I

But there was also an earlier Wessex at Farnborough - single Napier Gazelle powered Mk 1?(as opposed to twin Gnomes).can't remember the reg but it's in my logbook.
OC Flying was booked for solo C/T in it one day, and I scrounged and had the time of my life being taught how to hover, lift off, land, transition etc. Touchdown was easy; when you felt the mainwheels touch, dump the collective; liftoff was far more complicated involving sychronised (well almost anyway!) movements of the controls in order to achieve a 'clean' lift ie collective as well as cyclic and yaw.

That was XM330, now at the International helicopter museum.
http://www.helicoptermuseum.co.uk/westland.htm
It was the last flying MK1 and was fitted with an APIN starter. From what I remember there was something odd about that as the MK3's had an airstart system. (I think!).This exploded on startup one day, blew an impressive hole in the nose and grounded it! I was in the last year of my apprenticeship at the time so that puts it about 1982ish

Rgds Dr I

AVPIN (Iso-propyl-nitrate) same as Lightnings; flashpoint about 75 deg I seem to remember.
An American company called Turbonique used to market rocket motors (pure thrust type) and rocket turbines powered by the stuff; the turbines would be attached to a differential to provide wheel drive!!! Used to smoke the tyres for the entire quarter mile.

Reading all this reminded me of my time at Bedford. I was too late for the exotic stuff, though the Fairey FD2 was parked in a hangar, as was that low speed research Handley Page thingy. There was a P1127 which caused me to push the crash button on at least one occasion and an assortment of fairly normal aircraft.

However, what I suddenly remembered was the Twin Comanche, in RAE colours which was also hangar bound....can anybody say why that would have been there (this was 1973-1974). It didn`t fly while I was there, what became of it I wonder.

Vague recollection of the Twin Com; was it something to do with a Cranfield research project?
There was also the Auster in '74. He did a 'practice pilot incapacitation' one day; all went well until the fire service lifted the pilot out of the aircraft, and dropped him, injuring his back poor guy!

ETPS Farnborough
 

Does anyone have any recollections of my late uncle Sdn Ldr M R "Jace" Alston when he was a TP at Farnborough? He was on No. 7 course in 1948 and was killed flying the third prototype B(I)8 Canberra in May 1956 when at Boscombe Down.

It is great hearing the stories and memories of that time. Oh, to be able to turn the clock back a bit...

Madbob

Sorry about your uncle. I never met him but I presume you know the facts about his crash? If not I have the bare bones. If you want them drop me a pm.

John

RAE Farnborough
 

Can anyone help me with a picture of the once beautiful, wrought iron gates with RAE emblazoned on them? Gone - where? However fondly remembered.

Just for info; No 1 RAF Officers Mess (originally built for the RFC) has disappeared and it's replacement is well advanced; a 5 storey hotel complex!
Did anyone ever find the model Spitfire that was stolen from the plinth in the mess grounds?

Farnborough's aviation history
 

Hi,

I've checked with the administrators that it's OK to post this, and they've said it's alright so I hope you can all help.

I have setup a new web site, Historic Farnborough www.historicfarnborough.co.uk which is trying to uncover more about Farnborough's history and encourage people with an association with the town to submit their own photos, memories, family histories from whatever period. One of Farnborough's biggest assets is clearly its aviation history from the early experimental work of Samuel Cody in the town through to
the establishment of the Royal Aircraft Establishment (RAE) in the town, and we still have the international airshow every 2 years. Also, a lot of recent work has been done to help restore existing RAE buildings and a heritage quarter is being developed, the centre-piece of which is the reconstruction of the structure of one of the old Balloon Factory sheds from the early 1900s which Cody himself would have used. Currently I have a few photos from 1913 to the present day, but I'm also after memories as well - aviation-related or otherwise.

My reason for posting is to ask whether you have any photos or information which you'd be prepare to share with the site if you have or have had any link with the town? This is a non-commerical site, and I would acknowledge all sources as has been done with contributions received so far.

If this of of interest to you the URL is above, and there is a submission form on the site if you have anything you'd like to share.

Thanks, and I hope to hear from some of you.

Cheers,
Jon Cole.

You've probably seen these already but, just in case, there are lots of pictures of the RAE at pages 398-404 here:
http://viewfinder.english-heritage.o...place_name=Ham

And many fascinating personal recollections here.

Hi,

I wasn't aware of these, so many thanks for the pointer which I'll follow-up.

Thanks again.

Cheers,
Jon.

I see Puma '941 has appeared in the F.A.S.T. Museum compound from the Qinetiq site.

Sadly Chevron the Puma at FAST is XW241. I say sadly because Puma ZA941 crashed during a test flight killing two RAE engineers. One of them had moved onto chopper flight to replace me, when I moved on to bigger things:(
I spent many a happy hour on ZA941, back in those days Andy Warner and the late Pete Rainey were our main pilots. Top blokes both of them. Andy Warner was last heard of at Eurocopter flying the Tiger. I wonder what happened to him?

Rgds Dr I