Well spotted young man! 1975
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Airline callsigns
Don't know if anyone can help with this one. Back in 1968 when I bought my first airband radio, there were still a few airlines using the aircraft registration as the ATC callsign as opposed to the flight number. This seemed to be a mainly British phenomenon, with the only overseas carrier I remember using registrations being Sabena, which they were still doing until at least 1977. UK airlines still using registrations for ATC included, as I recall B.E.A., British Midland and British United. Monarch used flight numbers from day 1 (5th April 1968). B.O.A.C., British Eagle, Laker and Caledonian were using flight numbers. Not sure about Britannia, Channel, Invicta, Cambrian, BKS and Dan Air. The introduction of computerised systems and repetitive flight plans (RPL's) meant most carriers moved to using the flight number for ATC during the 1970's. It no doubt helped with navigation charges as well.
What I am after is further info as to other carriers who used registrations and when they switched to using flight numbers. I remember Autair used flight numbers when they switched their scheduled flights to LHR in 1969 but I think they used registrations prior to that. Did Court Line use registrations in their early days? Any info welcome. Also can anyone confirm (or otherwise) that Sudflug who used the airport briefly during summer 1967 used the callsign "Bluebird"? |
Court Line did indeed use registrations over the radio.
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Originally Posted by Level bust
(Post 9532162)
Court Line did indeed use registrations over the radio.
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Court Line did use registrations except for a short period in I think 1970 ( not sure why) - remember Court Line 373 being G-AWBL (recognisable by no "beep" at the end of the transmission unlike the -500s). Dan- Air were registrations (not sure when they changed- 1974 ish) and Britannia used Registrations until around 1973- they changed for some reason during a series of French ATC strikes - nothing changes!). Channel were always registrations- Midland were using registrations in 1970 and I guess they also changed in the early 70s. In 1968 Air France and BEA were using reg callsigns (Still Bealine Papa India at the sad time of the Staines crash). Pan Am used reg callsigns for charters (remember Clipper 766?) A lot of supplemental US reg callsigns I think (Saturn, Capitol etc.). BAF were reg.callsigns until T D Keegan took them over in 1972.
Pretty certain Condor 727s came in on Sunday with reg call signs as did TAROM IL-18s. The real problem for us spotters were those that didn't - did you ever find yourself at LTN in the middle of the night to "bag" an ATI DC9? |
Originally Posted by 22/04
(Post 9532868)
did you ever find yourself at LTN in the middle of the night to "bag" an ATI DC9?
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1 Attachment(s)
Originally Posted by LTNman
(Post 9503591)
I think I can just remember pleasure flights where passengers boarded via a gate in the fence by the corner of the spectators area. I can't remember who or where the money was collected through.
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Condor & Bavaria Germanair were still using registrations as call-signs as late as 1977
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Those at Luton in the 70's will well remember a tragic collision between an Aztec and a departing 1-11.
This thread has reminded me that as a plane spotting kid, presumably not that long after the accident, I walked into a hangar and amongst the other aircraft was the cabriolet PA-23, sat there as though it was perfectly normal to leave the wreckage from a fatal accident in a semi public place. What were they thinking of! |
Originally Posted by ZeBedie
(Post 9536680)
Those at Luton in the 70's will well remember a tragic collision between an Aztec and a departing 1-11.
This thread has reminded me that as a plane spotting kid, presumably not that long after the accident, I walked into a hangar and amongst the other aircraft was the cabriolet PA-23, sat there as though it was perfectly normal to leave the wreckage from a fatal accident in a semi public place. What were they thinking of! |
It wasn't under covers when I saw it. I'm not sure, but I don't think it was the McAlpine hangar - spotters didn't generally get in there.
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I think people were a little less sensitive in days of yor - maybe WWII with its losses were fresh in the mind. Remember at Farnboro' in 50s when John Derry was killed Neville Duke immediately took the Hunter up - and the show went on despite crowd casualties. - similarly it went on when the Atlantique crashed in '68. Stiff upper lip. Neither would happen today - just look at Shoreham. No judgement- just fact.
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Now here's another challenge along the lines of that about callsigns.
When I first became interested in Luton in 1968 IIRC the frequencies were as follows; APP 129.55 ( no change there - if it does change I think it's time for the Ravens to leave the Tower ( London not Luton). But when was this introduced and what were frequencies before my time RAD 127.3 123.55 (latter rarely used). TWR 120.2. Around 1970 we lost 123.55 and gained 128.75 which IIRC was the initial GND frequency. Or was 123.55 used briefly before that for GND. Then we settled to GND 121.75 TWR 120.2, RAD 127.3, APP/DIR 128.75 APP 129.55 I think- 127.3 was used for SRAs until quite late on. At some stage the original Radar was replaced by the one on the south side of the runway - Plessey units I think - was the first one a 424- whatever it was it responsible for horrible whine on 127.3. The TWR became 119.925 (not sure about that) Then we settled to what we have today, with TWR becoming 132.55 and 127.3 being lost. At some stage 126.725 was introduced as a back up TWR frequency. I think we still have or did have a delivery frequency - but has this ever been used. Vintage ATCO will be able to shed some light on this- corrections and dates would be useful |
Originally Posted by 22/04
(Post 9537709)
I think people were a little less sensitive in days of yor - maybe WWII with its losses were fresh in the mind. Remember at Farnboro' in 50s when John Derry was killed Neville Duke immediately took the Hunter up - and the show went on despite crowd casualties. - similarly it went on when the Atlantique crashed in '68. Stiff upper lip.No judgement- just fact.
Similarly at Le Mans in 1955 the race continued to its scheduled end. |
When I started in 1967 freqs were App 129.55 Dir 123.55 Rad 127.3 Twr 120.2. I think prior to 129.55 App was 130.35. Not sure.
Radar was a Plessey ACR424 sited where the Engine Run Bay is now but this was replaced late 60s by a Plessey ACR430 which was sited on 'the island'. The Plessey AR15 was purchased early 70s around the time Court Line went bust. If they could have cancelled it I am sure they would. Following a couple of nasty zone infringements we had a temporary Cossor 787, antenna mounted on a truck, displays remoted back to the tower, until the AR15 was ready. I validated on the 430, 787 and AR15. The 430 was kept going to provide half mile talkdown capability before ILS was installed on rwy 08, the AR15 could only go to 2 miles. The 430 radar head caught fire and melted. I did over 500 half mile talkdowns on the 430. When we decided to needed a GMC we temporaily used 123.55 ("Luton Director on the Ground" as the then SATCO called it). Then we got 121.75. Can't remember when now the tower freq changed to 132.55 or why we had to lose 120.2. It was also used by Shannon and Lille. When we got controlled airspace we also had a UHF frequency 378.9 (I think). |
VA's SRAs
500 half-mile talk downs on the AR15...?
"Hello, SRG?" |
Whoops! :O
It was looked at at some time but came to nothing. |
The 430 was kept going to provide half mile talkdown capability before ILS was installed on rwy 08 |
Originally Posted by 22/04
(Post 9537719)
RAD 127.3 123.55 (latter rarely used).
TWR 120.2. Around 1970 we lost 123.55 and gained 128.75 which IIRC was the initial GND frequency. Or was 123.55 used briefly before that for GND. Then we settled to GND 121.75 TWR 120.2, RAD 127.3, APP/DIR 128.75 APP 129.55 I think- 127.3 was used for SRAs until quite late on. The TWR became 119.925 (not sure about that) I think we still have or did have a delivery frequency - but has this ever been used. Think the TWR was 119.975 for a while after 120.2 and before 132.55. Yes we have delivery on 121.885, been in use this summer during the morning rush. |
Originally Posted by vintage ATCO
(Post 9537936)
When I started in 1967 freqs were App 129.55 Dir 123.55 Rad 127.3 Twr 120.2. I think prior to 129.55 App was 130.35. Not sure.
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