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-   -   LUTON History and Nostalgia (https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/527527-luton-history-nostalgia.html)

LTNman 17th Jun 2019 16:55

Back in the days when the airport encouraged spectators. Not sure when this was taken but the low fence is seen with a new high fence in front of it.
https://i.imgur.com/ZeGEog0.jpg

LTNman 21st Jun 2019 15:08

Today this thread has passed 1 million views. A big thank you to those that just visit and those that contribute to this thread with their questions and knowledge.

https://i.imgur.com/hvHjirc.jpg

jensdad 21st Jun 2019 20:01

And what a great photo to celebrate with!

LTNman 21st Jun 2019 20:25

Wonder why rear mounted engines went out of favour on short to mid range airliners but are the mainstay of business jets?

BAC 1-11
DC9
Boeing 727
Trident
Caravelle
plus the USSR types.

DaveReidUK 21st Jun 2019 21:16


Originally Posted by LTNman (Post 10499949)
Wonder why rear mounted engines went out of favour on short to mid range airliners but are the mainstay of business jets?

Because very few bizjets are big enough to accommodate underwing engines.


YVRLTN 22nd Jun 2019 03:39


Originally Posted by LTNman (Post 10499705)
Today this thread has passed 1 million views. A big thank you to those that just visit and those that contribute to this thread with their questions and knowledge.

I check this thread almost every day, one of my most favorite things on the internet. There is no nostalgia like Luton nostalgia...

Thanks to everyone who posts all the great photos and answers all my questions.

Now... can anyone post a photo of a Casa C212 or CN235 at LTN?

washoutt 22nd Jun 2019 07:38


Because very few bizjets are big enough to accommodate underwing engines.
Aft mounted engines require heavy structural adaption of the fuselage, a backwards c of g with associated limited travel, and large horizontal stabilizers to provide sufficient tail volume for aerodynamical stability. And in many cases, it requires a T-tail, again a heavy structure. Furthermore, wing-mounted engines provide some wing bending relief. The advantages -clean aerodynamic and (somewhat) smaller vertical tail- are outweighed by the penalties.

Self loading bear 22nd Jun 2019 08:03


Originally Posted by washoutt (Post 10500188)
Aft mounted engines require heavy structural adaption of the fuselage, a backwards c of g with associated limited travel, and large horizontal stabilizers to provide sufficient tail volume for aerodynamical stability. And in many cases, it requires a T-tail, again a heavy structure. Furthermore, wing-mounted engines provide some wing bending relief. The advantages -clean aerodynamic and (somewhat) smaller vertical tail- are outweighed by the penalties.

Then my question is why they were in fashion on the old mid range liners?
Only ground clearance under the wing?

SLB

SpringHeeledJack 22nd Jun 2019 08:48

We should also remember passenger comfort, that is sound levels. All the rear engined jets that I've flown on were very quiet, especially sitting forward of the wing. The outside noise was another matter ;-)

Btw, congratulations on the 1,000,000th view, great thread over the years!

treadigraph 22nd Jun 2019 09:17


Originally Posted by DaveReidUK (Post 10499980)
Because very few bizjets are big enough to accommodate underwing engines.

[Thread drift]I did like the McDonnell 119/220 though. Passed through El Paso with time to spare once, if I'd known it was parked up there I'd have ambled round for a gander... [/Thread drift]

Good thread, keep it up folks!

thegypsy 22nd Jun 2019 10:14

Can anybody remember any of the jokes written on the walls of the Gents in Freds original Flying Club Bar by the control tower?? The one with the cubby hole which opened after official closing time. Early 70's

boeing_eng 22nd Jun 2019 14:14

Because very few bizjets are big enough to accommodate underwing engines.

The newish Honda Jet is an interesting design with engines mounted above the wings to give maximum cabin space.....Not many in Europe yet (but there was a Maltese registered one in LTN last month.....)

treadigraph 22nd Jun 2019 14:34

Several have been in and out of Biggin. Reminiscent of the VFW-614, is that a type which has been into Luton?

SpringHeeledJack 22nd Jun 2019 16:16

I was thinking of the VFW-614 earlier in the thread, when people were discussing engine mounting. Clever design, but visually ugly. The Luftwaffe had some in the VIP role, so perhaps one popped into LTN, although more likely into RAF Northolt. Having said that Air Alsace had some and maybe on a football charter into LTN ?

cj241101 22nd Jun 2019 18:30


Originally Posted by YVRLTN (Post 10500105)
Now... can anyone post a photo of a Casa C212 or CN235 at LTN?

CN235 - no. Only record I have of a visit was the Irish Air Corps on 24/4/03 (serial 252)
CASA 212 yes:-

https://i.imgur.com/nyWemuz.jpg
OO-FKY 16/12/86

https://i.imgur.com/dbAVYqF.jpg
N392CA 16/3/13


cj241101 22nd Jun 2019 18:46


Originally Posted by boeing_eng (Post 10500411)
Because very few bizjets are big enough to accommodate underwing engines.

The newish Honda Jet is an interesting design with engines mounted above the wings to give maximum cabin space.....Not many in Europe yet (but there was a Maltese registered one in LTN last month.....)

Wijet Hondajets have been in at least twice:-

https://i.imgur.com/uyQteXC.jpg
LX-WJD 6/6/19

I don't recall any VFW-614 visits. Cimber Air were another European operator but, as with Air Alsace, the type wasn't a success and they only lasted 5 years max.

cj241101 22nd Jun 2019 19:01


Originally Posted by washoutt (Post 10500188)
Aft mounted engines require heavy structural adaption of the fuselage, a backwards c of g with associated limited travel, and large horizontal stabilizers to provide sufficient tail volume for aerodynamical stability.

All the rear engined airliners had problems with the C of G. Empty and they were close to - or outside - their aft limit and required ballast of some sort (barrels of demin water in the case of Monarch) in the front hold to be within limits. Another trick (1-11's in particular) was to "trap" unusable fuel in the centre tank which moved the C of G forward of the aft limit. On the other hand, put a full load of passengers and 150 bags on a 1-11 500 bound for (e.g.) Naples, with full wing tanks and 3000kgs (I think that's what it held) in the centre tank, then you would be very close to - or outside - the forward C of G limit, even if you were able to cram 85 bags (standard loading) in the rear hold. Give me a 737 with wing mounted engines any day!

treadigraph 22nd Jun 2019 19:18

I recall seeing a TAT VFW-614 coming out of Heathrow one afternoon and a Luftwaffe example on a remote stand at Heathrow; never saw any others in the UK.

Just trying to think of the most unusual type I ever saw at Luton on my infrequent visits (usually to/from the PFA at Cranfield) but nothing springs to mind - the interesting stuff was always the visiting biz-jets!

dc9-32 23rd Jun 2019 05:16

if you were able to cram 85 bags (standard loading) in the rear hold.
Ah yes, and the lonely 2 bags from a total of 87 went in the front !
Low loads of less than 80 I think we split 50/50 front/rear and free seating for the punters.

LTNman 23rd Jun 2019 07:39


Originally Posted by LTNman (Post 10499949)
Wonder why rear mounted engines went out of favour on short to mid range airliners but are the mainstay of business jets?

BAC 1-11
DC9
Boeing 727
Trident
Caravelle
plus the USSR types.

Forgot to list the F70. I remember BMA flying the F27 into Luton but did they operate the F70?


16th January 2003
https://i.imgur.com/M7Mp8Kj.jpg


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