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RegDep 14th Sep 2011 08:10

BAE Systems' Military Air Solutions wind tunnel.

safetypee 14th Sep 2011 13:05

RegDep, quite likely (btw where is that tunnel located); however who was using it.

RegDep 14th Sep 2011 13:19

Warton, Lancashire? No idea yet which project that was.

A wild guess: EADS Alenia.

safetypee 14th Sep 2011 14:21

Not EADS Alenia, but a flavouring in the mixture.

evansb 14th Sep 2011 15:31

The 'TurboLiner' ?

Lightning Mate 14th Sep 2011 15:59

I worked for BAe and confirm that RegDep has identified the tunnel, which is indeed at Warton.

MReyn24050 14th Sep 2011 16:17

These link support Reg & LM:-
Google Images

safetypee 14th Sep 2011 16:25

Sorry not the TurboLiner – incorrect fin shape (not that you can see) and without curved flight deck window panels. Perhaps a little smaller – up to 120 seats, but more likely 70-100.

Ah Warton, ‘tis up north’, but this design organisation, geographically, ranged North and South of that.

MReyn24050, thanks for the link. We have identified the tunnel, but ‘who’ put ‘what’ into it, and why.

MReyn24050 14th Sep 2011 17:37

The Indian Regional Transport Aircaft the RTA-70 perhaps?

RegDep 14th Sep 2011 17:47


Not EADS Alenia, but a flavouring in the mixture.
Following this clue which is between esoteric and cryptographic, my next stab is that the project was done by EADS Innovation Works, either for the European Clean Sky project*, or for Ukrainian Antonov or Russian Sukhoi.

Interesting, Mel, I thought the same, but felt that the Indians would trust their own capabilities. Let's see the verdict when it is handed down :8.

Edit: * Like "the Italian aeronautical industry occupying a front-line row through its leadership of Finmeccanica on two technical platforms: Green Regional Aircraft (Alenia Aeronautica with EADS-CASA) and …."

safetypee 14th Sep 2011 19:50

Sorry, no more progress so far, but in a jumbled way MReyn24050 has consortium member.

safetypee 15th Sep 2011 02:34

To speed things up, this could have been a stable mate - the earlier jet version.

and the project which both parties wanted to build but couldn’t afford it.

spook 15th Sep 2011 09:31

IPTN? The N-250?

safetypee 15th Sep 2011 12:55

No not IPTN. Many manufacturers had similar ideas, only a few were built.
None of the above made it beyond the wind tunnel, except that parts of the turboprop, full size engine/wing/fuselage junction may have been part of an open rotor noise test.

MReyn24050 15th Sep 2011 13:43


Sorry, no more progress so far, but in a jumbled way MReyn24050 has consortium member.
Sorry you have lost me. What exactly is jumbled about the Indian Regional Transport RTA-70?

RegDep 15th Sep 2011 13:54

How about, in a jumbled way, comething else at Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL)?


Hindustan Aeronautics has a long history of collaboration with several other international and domestic aerospace agencies such as Airbus, Boeing, Sukhoi Aviation Corporation, Israel Aircraft Industries, RSK MiG, BAE Systems, Rolls-Royce plc, Dassault Aviation, Dornier Flugzeugwerke, the Indian Aeronautical Development Agency and the Indian Space Research Organisation.

safetypee 15th Sep 2011 14:08

Jumbled … sorry, too cryptic. RTA = = ATR, who were partners with BAe in AIR. Hence the association with the BAe wind tunnel.
The turboprop model was adorned with the AIR logo. AIR had several design studies but never produced any new aircraft.
I suspect that the turboprop was a BAe sop to ATR, but still using the majority of 146/RJ fuselage, wing, and tail, whereas they preferred the twin engine 146/RJ. The best of the bad bunch would have been the twin RJ70 (246?).
BAe had previously conducted open rotor tests with the 146 (Mamba engine near a 146 wing IIRC).
Both BAe and ATR recognised the emerging market for a small regional twinjet, hence the EMB lookalike jet. The favoured AIR variant was also smaller / thinner, again like the EMB designs; but money, ideas, and association ran out before there was any progress.

Open house.

evansb 15th Sep 2011 19:40

Talk about jumbled! I'm still not clear on the name of the project aircraft. Regardless, here is a tailpipe challenge:


MReyn24050 15th Sep 2011 19:44


Talk about jumbled! I'm still not clear on the name of the project aircraft.

I am glad it wasn't only me Bri. :)

Yours is the Ryan FR-1 Fireball I believe.

evansb 15th Sep 2011 21:21

You are spot on, as usual, Mel:ok: Your turn.

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