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-   -   Air Cadet Gliding pix in the 80s (pre glass) (https://www.pprune.org/aviation-history-nostalgia/284073-air-cadet-gliding-pix-80s-pre-glass.html)

Pegpilot 20th Feb 2021 11:39

Meanwhile, Kirby Cadet Mk III XN246 has been derigged by Southampton Air Museum and appears to be languishing in a shed with one face open to the elements, judging by a 2019 photo on t'internet. She looks to be in a sorry state. Sad. Did my first solo in her at Manston in 1977. If Solent Sky have no plans for her, it would be nice to find her another home. A shame that she's now so unloved by an organisation that was supposed to be looking after her and preserving her memory. And as for winching, my club (Welland) still has a Tost winch mounted on a Bedford RL truck !

bobward 24th Oct 2021 16:00

Having just skimmed through all these pages I can see very little reference to 611 VGS at Swanton Morely.
I know it's in deep dark Norfolk, but surely there must be somebody apart from me who did their A & B certs here?


pulse1 24th Oct 2021 16:17

I did my C cat instructor's rating there, or at least most of it. Their winch broke so we had to resort to ATs and couldn't cover cable breaks. F/O Pond had to come to Old Sarum to finish it off.

chevvron 25th Oct 2021 10:50


Originally Posted by bobward (Post 11131661)
Having just skimmed through all these pages I can see very little reference to 611 VGS at Swanton Morely.
I know it's in deep dark Norfolk, but surely there must be somebody apart from me who did their A & B certs here?

Not sure if Swanton was 611 GS (I thought it was in the 64_ GS series) ; I know it became No 1 Gliding Centre when Hawkinge closed in '61 and this operated weekdays with the GS operating weekends.
Swanton got a brief reprieve a couple of years ago when they started Vigilant ops but within a week, ops were teminated again.
Strangely a lot of VGS sites are lying empty eg Halton, Henlow etc whereas at Little Rissington there are 2 VGS on the one site!

Innominate 26th Oct 2021 21:23


Not sure if Swanton was 611 GS
It was 611 in 1973 when I did my course in the May half-term break.

longer ron 27th Oct 2021 06:36


Originally Posted by chevvron (Post 11131975)
Not sure if Swanton was 611 GS (I thought it was in the 64_ GS series) ; I know it became No 1 Gliding Centre when Hawkinge closed in '61 and this operated weekdays with the GS operating weekends.

Yes 611 GS was at Swanton Morley
Presumably 611 GS had a similar relationship to No 1 Gliding Centre as 644 GS did to No 2 Gliding Centre (Spitalgate) as was.
I did my initial (weekend) gliding course at 644 Spitalgate ,644 did the weekend training and No2 GC did the weekday courses.
So presumably 611 GS did the weekend courses/AEG at Swanton with No1 GC doing the weekday courses.


chevvron 27th Oct 2021 16:46

Confusingly, No 613 Sqdn RAF was once based at Swanton flying Mosquitos!
And of course before Spitalgate, No 2 GC was at Kirton in Lindsey from the mid '60s until 1972 operating alongside 643 GS.with No's 1 and 2 GC moving to Syerston in 1975 to become CGS along with 643 and 644..

Prangster 3rd Jan 2022 18:37

643 Kirton in Lindsey and 644 at Hemswell seem absent on parade I soled at the former.

Democritus 14th Jan 2022 22:18


Originally Posted by Pegpilot (Post 10994082)
Meanwhile, Kirby Cadet Mk III XN246 has been derigged by Southampton Air Museum and appears to be languishing in a shed with one face open to the elements. Did my first solo in her at Manston in 1977. ....

I also did my first solo in her, but in March 1962 when she was with 622 at the long gone Christchurch airfield. I took this photo at Solent Sky about 15 years ago...

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....27d58490ec.jpg



POBJOY 14th Jan 2022 23:02

Best value for money airframe any Airforce had anywhere in the World. and has no equal in a fist solo operation. Youngsters nowadays would jump at a chance to sample its ability to get them airborne and then 'go it alone'. A 'wheel ' that did not need reinventing and (on a continuous course) zero to solo in just over an hours actual flight for some. An operation for Cadets run by Cadets 'unbeatable'. This one in a proper 'training command ' livery, because that is what the system did, TRAIN !!

chevvron 15th Jan 2022 09:43


Originally Posted by POBJOY (Post 11170190)
Best value for money airframe any Airforce had anywhere in the World. and has no equal in a fist solo operation. Youngsters nowadays would jump at a chance to sample its ability to get them airborne and then 'go it alone'. A 'wheel ' that did not need reinventing and (on a continuous course) zero to solo in just over an hours actual flight for some. An operation for Cadets run by Cadets 'unbeatable'. This one in a proper 'training command ' livery, because that is what the system did, TRAIN !!

Totally agree.:ok:

bobward 16th Jan 2022 15:35

Seeing the picture of the Mk 3 in Solent Sky reminds me of something.
When my daughter was very small, we visited the IWM at Duxford. In one hanger was a Mk 3.
@I used to fly one of those' says a proud Dad.
'Yes, and now it's in a museum' says an unimpressed daughter.
As she was six at the time, I thought that was a rather adult put down.......
Sic Transit Gloria ?

chevvron 17th Jan 2022 09:50


Originally Posted by POBJOY (Post 11170190)
Best value for money airframe any Airforce had anywhere in the World. and has no equal in a fist solo operation. Youngsters nowadays would jump at a chance to sample its ability to get them airborne and then 'go it alone'. A 'wheel ' that did not need reinventing and (on a continuous course) zero to solo in just over an hours actual flight for some. An operation for Cadets run by Cadets 'unbeatable'. This one in a proper 'training command ' livery, because that is what the system did, TRAIN !!

My treasured logbook shows 39 launches and 2hr 04 min including my first 3 solos. I was a weekend flyer but others on a continuous course did it in about half that time..

POBJOY 17th Jan 2022 17:27

The Best Basic World Class Training System EVER
 

Originally Posted by chevvron (Post 11171088)
My treasured logbook shows 39 launches and 2hr 04 min including my first 3 solos. I was a weekend flyer but others on a continuous course did it in about half that time..

The defence rests its case. What a fantastic organisation (complete with wellies and Soapy hats) and before the Raspberry ripple colour scheme and those silly grinding goggles !!!!

Dan Winterland 18th Jan 2022 17:47

I did mine at 662 VGS (Condor) in the Easter break in 1980. Sent solo by Lovat Fraser after 23 launches and I hour 34 minutes dual time.

POBJOY 19th Jan 2022 01:13

Keeping it simple
 
I know that the system used very basic machines, however it achieved an amazing level of training considering the main operations for 'schools' was on a w-end only basis.
When you add the weather and travel factor plus Cadets had no 'ability streaming' or real pre flight classroom work, how did it all work. I think it worked because no one told us it could not be done that way. There must be lessons that can be learnt from those days that relate to how we approach tasks today. Of course it was very much a 'hands on' operation and I do not recall much in the way of paperwork or written tests. Yet despite this a 16 year old was allowed to do all this on his own after a very limited amount of actual flight time and with an excellent safety record. Could it have been an 'age related' factor that the magic 16 element happened to peak in a combination of confidence and learning ability that enabled total input into the task rather than the the requirement to memorise lots of information. There again was it the Bumble Bee syndrome, we fly because we can and no one told us otherwise. Thank you Air Cadet Gliding you did us proud.

DaveReidUK 19th Jan 2022 06:42


Originally Posted by Dan Winterland (Post 11171758)
I did mine at 662 VGS (Condor) in the Easter break in 1980. Sent solo by Lovat Fraser after 23 launches and I hour 34 minutes dual time.

I was amazed to find out recently that one of the Mk 3s that I flew at Arbroath in April 1969 survived there until at least 2012, supposedly "under restoration", and may even be still extant:

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....cca7f0fbb1.jpg

Aircraft Photo of BGA4033 / XE786 | Slingsby T.31B Cadet TX.3 | UK - Air Force | AirHistory.net #56939

treadigraph 19th Jan 2022 08:22

Can't see any Cadets or Sedberghs on the G-reg - are vintage gliders still permitted to fly on the BGA register? ("Slingsby" reveals T-67s, Ventures, Vegas, Darts, Kestrels, etc...)

VX275 19th Jan 2022 08:35


Originally Posted by POBJOY (Post 11171897)
I know that the system used very basic machines, however it achieved an amazing level of training considering the main operations for 'schools' was on a w-end only basis.
When you add the weather and travel factor plus Cadets had no 'ability streaming' or real pre flight classroom work, how did it all work. I think it worked because no one told us it could not be done that way. There must be lessons that can be learnt from those days that relate to how we approach tasks today. Of course it was very much a 'hands on' operation and I do not recall much in the way of paperwork or written tests. Yet despite this a 16 year old was allowed to do all this on his own after a very limited amount of actual flight time and with an excellent safety record. Could it have been an 'age related' factor that the magic 16 element happened to peak in a combination of confidence and learning ability that enabled total input into the task rather than the the requirement to memorise lots of information. There again was it the Bumble Bee syndrome, we fly because we can and no one told us otherwise. Thank you Air Cadet Gliding you did us proud.

That reminds me of one pupil I was given. Sat in the cockpit for the first time I passed him the FRCs (it was in a Venture) and proceeded to read the Cockpit checks having asked him to follow me. He said "Sorry sir I can't read", having been brought up in the 'wooden fleet' days where FRC's were unknown and all you had to remember was CBSITCB I replied "OK repeat after me".
This cadet is one I am proud of, he memorized the checks and he went solo and if his later life was restricted by his level of literacy at least he could say he had flown an aircraft on his own.

chevvron 19th Jan 2022 14:23


Originally Posted by POBJOY (Post 11171897)
I know that the system used very basic machines, however it achieved an amazing level of training considering the main operations for 'schools' was on a w-end only basis.
When you add the weather and travel factor plus Cadets had no 'ability streaming' or real pre flight classroom work, how did it all work. I think it worked because no one told us it could not be done that way. There must be lessons that can be learnt from those days that relate to how we approach tasks today. Of course it was very much a 'hands on' operation and I do not recall much in the way of paperwork or written tests. Yet despite this a 16 year old was allowed to do all this on his own after a very limited amount of actual flight time and with an excellent safety record. Could it have been an 'age related' factor that the magic 16 element happened to peak in a combination of confidence and learning ability that enabled total input into the task rather than the the requirement to memorise lots of information. There again was it the Bumble Bee syndrome, we fly because we can and no one told us otherwise. Thank you Air Cadet Gliding you did us proud.

:ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok::ok:


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