Shuttleworth Displays - Feedback Required, Please
 

There's been some good positive feedback in other threads on this years Shuttleworth Displays. We all know that the place is fantastic and the shows are great, etc,et, but what we don't hear is what goes wrong. In another thread Damian B has given his thoughts on local advertising and signing - both unaceptable. Man-on-the-fence has commented on the clashes with Duxford.

What do you think?

Say what you want and criticise as much as you like, but if you do, please be constructive and suggest a solution.

If you don't come to Old Warden, then say why not - we'd like to know that, too.

Over to you........

Airbedane

1. Please can we have the Mew Gull back!

2. Please can we see the DH 88 fly again soon!

3. Please can we have less appearances by smoke belching flying billboards which try to turn themselves inside out (e.g Extras).

4. But above all, please can we see you back in the air again soon, mate! Hope things are going well!

Off the top of my head, can we please get the Mobile Phone Transmitter moved from the farm on the other side of the runway. A picture of an Historic Aircraft in a wonderful setting ruined by a 20th Century necessity.

Oh and more gingerbread please, it always goes by the time I get there:ok:

There will be more when I have had time to think.

Right I have had a thunk. Please bear in mind this is coming from a stanpoint of little or no knowledge of how to organise an airshow or how much things cost. Its also based on 4 visits in the latter half of the season.


I noticed on Sunday that the "other" catering outlet in the shed didnt open until well after the cafe, thus big queues for coffee at the cafe. When it did open there were queues building up just before the flying. Is a 3rd outlet required?

I could come up with a long list of visiting aircraft, however most probably wouldn't suit the ambiance, however it would be nice to see an Anson formation and what chance the other Maggie coming down from Yorkshire? It would be nice as well to see some Duxford based aircraft at OW instead of the other way around. Finally,the Blackburn B2 would fit in nicely. Oh and what about a Hunter (just once) I can see a theme coming SE5a, Pup, Triplane, Spit, Hurri, Hunter. All single seat british fighters. I quick word with BAE to get the Typhoon and bobs your uncle.

I for one dont have a problem with Denny, as long as his appearance fits into the Barnstorming theme of an event. And as you say the punters love him.

As I understand it SVAS membership doesn't grant any discounts towards the other attractions at OW, Mrs Fence may be tempted to join if it gave her a discount of entry to the Falconry centre as well.

Advertising has already been mentioned, but for those who dont want to join the SVAS what about a loyalty scheme? Say attend 3 events get the 4 one free/half price or discount in the shop.

I cant think of anything else. The two key words here are Aerial and Gingerbread :E

A,

Here's my 2p worth.

1. Change the dates so it doesn't clash with Duxford events - You'll get more Cambridge locals visiting, and you may be able to swap aircraft with the IWM/TFC/OFMC/ARCO etc!

2. I agree with Beags. The Extra doesnt really fit, just as it wouldn't fit in at the RAF Musuem etc etc. Leave the high performance aircraft for a dedicated 'High Performance' event? The Yakovlevs are OK though, more relaxed aerobatics. Most people who go to Old Warden want to see old aeroplanes, not Carbon Fibre advertising hoardings.

3. Get a decent full time commentator. Jeremy Spake was awful!!! He kept ranting on & on about the Lysander. Can we expect Dale Winton for the 2004 season?

4. There are lots of other aircraft out there to choose from - The Real Aeroplane Company's Aeronca C3 & Ryan, Vic Norman's Curtiss Jenny, The Tiger Club Turbulent Team etc etc...Probably even a Zlin 526 if you look hard enough. All good entertaining flying.

Other than that, its an excellent day out. Well done to you and the guys (and girls) who make it happen, and to MOTF and Damien B for recording it on film (or disc?).

"If it aint broke, dont fix it"

zzz

I belong to a local car club and I drag the members along each year to one of the Evening events. As they are CAR enthusiasts they tend to go for the flying with a "wow" factor which means the exteme aerobatics and the Spitfire. The Boxkite always gets a thumbs-up as well.
I agree with other comments that you need to co-ordinate with Duxford and Little Gransden on show dates. There is a limit to an enthusiasts budget and entrance fees never go down.

Well there's nothing really broken it has to be said!

However...

1. I say let's have more barnstorming - Chipmunk/Tiger/Extra, whatever. Adds a good bit of fun to the display. It's clearly popular with the crowd - the only overall round of applause I heard at this last show was for Denny for instance. Plus the kids love it - get the kids hooked and they'll be coming with their kids a few years down the line...

2. Harvards, there's piles of em around and they must surely be cheaper to book than warbirds? I've seen some cracking displays from them over the years but you see so little of them these days.

3. For the small jets (and I think the JP and Gnat are a great addition), how about a Vampire? Particularly thinking of a nice shiny silver one to go along with the RAF trainers theme.

4. More toilets - especially at the Proms when we're all knocking back grog!


And from the purely selfish photographer-after-a-perfect-piccy viewpoint:

1. Get a Stuka. And bomb that damn aerial mast with it. Take out the Sandy mast while you're at it!

2. Put the dayglo panels marking the display line flat on the ground rather than facing the crowd.

3. Build a second tower for photogs to stand on. :E

4. Move the speaker poles behind the crowdline.

5. Require each display act to to do a topside pass nice and low so you can get the trees in the background!:E

I've no complaints at all from the evening I wen there last year...

Except... No Cider at the bar! As I recall - possbily erroneously! - pints were all lager, but that may have changed. might be something worth looking at, if there are no real ales on, perhaps a well-known Kent Brewer might like to supply the bar with its well known aeroplane themed brand! (And definitely cider for this drunken westcountryman!)

Re Damien's barnstorming suggestion, I've always been partial to Crazy Flying, though I do realise its broken a few aeroplanes over the years! Fortunately not people... But Old Rhinebeck have done it for forty years and, so far as I know, have never bent so much as an axle... In the UK, the name O'Brien pops into my head...!

But keep up the good work, the displays are simply superb: I will be back next year, I promise, and I wil join SVAS.

Move it nearer to where I live:)

Seriously, is ther any reasonably-priced accomodation within staggering distance of OW?

SSD

Another well kept secret SSD - 30 quid for a room in the Shuttleworth mansion itself!

http://www.shuttleworthcollection.co...ommodation.htm

(Airbedane - that could do with a more prominent link on the website - perhaps an accomodation button on the front page).

Copied from the Flypast forum this post entitled Copy of an Email to Old warden

Oh and the loos are becoming an issue as well

Only two shows this year (Flying Proms included). Absolutely fantastic both times.

I wish there were more Saturday shows as I cannot attend any Sunday shows.

It would be nice to see more visiting types at OW. Duxford returning favours would be nice. Also more old helicopters would add interest. Would be nice if at a couple of shows a year (so as not to destroy the ambience at the rest) the RAF, RN could display a modern Jet to put the older planes into some kind of perspective.

I would suggest that a member of the Shuttleworth team could do a quick tour of the vicinity of the Airfield to gather donations from the countless people who freeload outside the fence. Probably turn up one hundred quid.

An advertising board alongside the A1 might achieve greater visitor numbers. A small sign near the entrance giving a date of next show would be useful as well.

Lastly, I think PPRuNe people should display PPRuNe badges, hats, flags, etc so that location of fellow PPruNers is easier. Perhaps a PPRuNe flag attached to one of the sound poles might act as a point of contact.

DeepC

Have to admit I bring a picnic (albeit ever weirder combinations of foodstuffs) as the price for a burger is a bit steep especially given the length of the queue.

Little Gransden do quite well with a BBQ manned by loadsa volunteers, prices not too steep either. Thinks... as the Mildenhall show looks like it's never on any more, how about inviting some of the squadrons there to bring along their BBQ gear, burgers, 'wet sauce' etc. You'd probably double the crowd with this alone and the Yanks would probably go crazy about an Olde English venue like OW. Just for the May show perhaps... and if they want to chuck in an MH-53 or F-15, well so be it :ok:

DeepC - perhaps you could hold the bucket for donations while Hairyplane provides the intimidation, famous as he is for freeloader-squashing expeditions? :D

DamianB

That's excellent! I shall bike down there next season, perhaps with a mate or two, and enjoy the flying and the facilities:ok:

Ta!

SSD

I agree with many of the above posts.

My main disappointment in the past few years (other than the Spitfires wingtips - is there an explantion for their growth...) has been the commentary (please tell me that Zlin526 was joking about Jeremy Spake), and OW would benefit from a really decent commentator who know's their stuff, and can throw in the odd random story now and then...

Secondly, the crowd on the end of the runway really does need to be moved on (towards the gate? - there's an extra couple of hundred quid there).

I must also say, although i'm not the worlds' biggest Extra 300 fan, Denny Dobson must keep displaying, he deserves the booking...

Charlie

Thanks for the replies so far – only a day on the net and lots of useful comment. Many, many thanks to all who have contributed, do keep it up, please.

Here’s a few thoughts:

Beags:
- Thanks for the kind words, we’re getting there slowly.
- Mew Gull – I’d like it back too – maybe one day.
- Comet – we plan to fly it early in 200. We’ve decided to level the runway first, just in case, and work on that will start at the end of next season, 2004. To help the process, there’ll be no show next October and the September evening show will be a week early. The airfield will then close for the winter.
- Extra’s etc – I get the feeling that you don’t like ‘em…………I can sympathise, but families and kids do and the youngsters are where we need to target to secure the future.

MOTF:
- The aerial - it’s not a mobile phone device, but it will be removed soon.
- Food and Booze – I’ll pass that on
- Display content – I’ll pass that on, too, but bear in mind that we have to buy-in acts with a limited budget and the big jets produce a local area noise problem, RAF aircraft incur a large cost for support personnel. None of the above are insurmountable, but they all go in the equation.
- SVAS - there were other concessions for the SVAS this year, but you are quite right when you say it didn’t include the Falconry. I’ll pass the comment on, but remember that joining benefits the Collection and shouldn’t be done just for the concessions…..
- Loyalty Scheme – good idea, we’ll look into it.

Z526:
- Duxford – in the late 80’s Old Warden shows were held on the last Sunday of the month, so were Duxford’s. We moved to the first Sunday of the month in 1990, I think. So did Duxford.
- Extra – see above
- Commentator – always an emotional subject. Remember that the main job of the Commentator is to control the crowd in the even of need. The rest is a bonus. For every complaint about Jeremy, we’ve had ten of praise. We’ll certainly listen to comments on commentators, but we can’t please everyone.
- Aircraft – see above, comments and suggestions welcome

OzP:
- Duxford – see above

DB:
- Barnstorming – thanks, I’ll pass it on
- Harvard’s – good point, but Harvard’s are expensive as they fly slowly and take a long time to get to their destination.
- Other aircraft – I’ll pass that on
- Toilets – I agree, I’ll pass that on, too
- Mast – see above
- Panels point taken, but they’re airfield boundary markers and must stay if we wish to license the airfield
- Photog tower and top-side pass – If you move back off the crowd line, you’ll get a higher viewpoint, and you’ll see more of the top surface due to the increased range from the target.
- Speakers – again, here to stay, I’m afraid

T’graph:
- Booze – see above
- Crazy flying – Good idea, thanks, I’ll pass that on.

SSD:
- Accom – thanks for the answer DB

MOTF:
- Restaurant – I’ll pass that on.

DC:
- Saturday shows – is five not enough, six including the Proms?
- Visiting acts – see above
- Freeloaders – Hairyplane and the Collection are working on it, you may have noticed there were less this year – it’s becoming a major problem at all airshows. (How about a comment, Hairyplane, as I know you have strong feelings here?)
- Advertising – good point, and we’re working on it.
- PPRuNe rendez-vous – good idea, is anyone out there prepared to organise it? We can also put a call out on the PA if you wish.

DB:
- An American BBQ – “Big Homer Simpson Drool………” We banned BBQ’s some years ago due to the fire risk, but it may be worth a re-look.

HotC:
- Spitfire – the tips were put on when Disney offered us a deal we couldn’t refuse to fly in their Pearl Harbour film. I’ve left ‘em on, with opposition from all the pilot’s, as the aircraft looks better like that for the family audience – it’s more of a classic Spitfire. It was worth keeping it clipped when we were the only one, but as there are so many others on the circuit now, I felt we could leave the tips as is. However, we can remove them for a season or two if that’s what everyone wants – comments please.
- Commentary – see above, but please give me more info, and I’ll pass it on to the commentary team.
- Freeloaders – see above
- Extra – again, see above.


Well, that’s all for now folks. Again, many thanks for the comments, I’ll pass those on to the relevant areas that I’ve noted above, and get back to you with anything further. I hope the other replies have helped,

Airbedane

Airbedane

Thanks for the reply. I quick couple of comments

Aerial - Wonderful thanks.

Display Content - I fully understand, thats why I didnt ask for the whole of TFC to drop in :D Variety is nice but the based arcraft alone make the journey worthwhile.

SVAS - I agree that you shouldnt join for the concessions, however if the concessions mean the difference between dad and the whole family joining then that has to be a good thing.

Thanks for taking the time to ask

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE Repaint the Gladiator back in RAF markings!!!!!
Its already the basic colour!! (Though thought it was luvverly in camo!)

I'd like to see the Spit with clipped wings again - I am a true believer in Shuttleworth's 100% accuracy in its restorations,and after all, it is a VC!

Theres little to improve in the setting of the place and I don't think an elevated position would improve photography - its unique in having displays tailored to bank past the crowd -superb!
( Be nice to ask thse BBMF to perform a gentle bank around the bend - nothing too strenuous!) Any tower would then restrict other peoples view behind it.

Denny and the like as well as fast jets are all part of aviations rich taperstry which is surely what Shuttleworth's all about - the preservation and celebration of aviation in all its aspects! I recall that a Harrier always looks good here operating off the grass - nice 'n close!

How about some foreign historics ?? The flamant looked great a few years ago and why oh why did the Fury have to go back to Belgium??When I saw that in the hangar the other year I thought YES!!- A Cygnet,Hind,Fury, Hurricane, Hunter and Harrier "Camm" flypast could be arranged
well, at least with the Hind!
The French B17,Noratlas,Noralpha, Paris, a Swiss Hunter or 2, Belgian Viima, Dutch Beaver, Swedish Tunnan & Saab B17, German Bf108/9, Casa 352 etc I know cost is an issue but for variety, cant be beaten.

Talking of variety how about a change in the visitors? i.e. The Avenger & Scout were both at the last 2 shows- nice as they are it does influence visits by people who have "seen it all before", especially if there is a distance to travel.

Otherwise keep up the great work - pleased to hear about the Comet, but still smarting a little over the LVG having to go!!
:ok:

Please don't have Barnstorming and crazy flying at Old Warden.
Its only my personel opinion but to me that's not what Old Warden is about.
Old Warden is a special venue where historic aircraft are displayed beautifully and I think it would start to lose its unique atmosphere if these type of acts were brought in.
I would much rather see something like the Hind fly twice than see barnstorming or crazy flying.

Airbedane -

As DB said, not a lot broke, really

Catering - could be better (but I usually bring a picnic)

Visiting acts - more variety would be nice, as I go to several shows in a year. Harvard, Yak-11 (mmmmm, nice), Jenny (would LOVE to see that at OW), An-2, Jungmeister, Rapide, Dragonfly, Dragon, 3 Maggies together. Some types in the spirit of OW, which probably wouldn't cost the earth. 'Heavy Metal' warbirds, like we used to see a lot more of 5-10years ago, very nice, but 1) expensive and 2) we can go to Duxford for those.

Spitfire wingtips - I can see the attraction of keeping them on to provide the classic eliptical shape for the casual punter, so no strong feelings on that one.

More advertising - agree strongly (but not too much - don't want OW losing its unique casual atmosphere due to overcrowding!)

Harriers - always used to have them once or twice a year, don't seem to nowadays. Always good for bringing in the visiting familes.

Nice to see some variety in the based aircraft, such as the Po-2 - when is it planned to fly in the UK?

Good news about the mast (yuk) and the Comet (mmmmm)

Shame about the LVG going - just as a matter of interest, what was the reason for Sunday's cancellation? It seemed to be on fine fettle when ground-run before the display.

Keep up the good work!

Airbedane.


With the loss of the LVG to Hendon has the collection any plans to purchase a WW1 German aircraft. I know the collection would ideally like an original airframe, although availiability and price would be a major problem.

Alternatively would it be possible to have someone like AJD or even the Memorial flight @ Le Bourget in France build a replica around an original engine. I know it all comes down to money, but without the LVG the WW1 scenarios are going to see rather one sided.

I know the replica issue is always an emotional subject, but you do already have the Boxkite and Avro Triplane.

It was a great shame that the Mew and Active left Old Warden, was the price just too high or were they outside the collection's purchasing criteria.

The Lysander was an excellent purchase, a great performer that fits in perfectly with the Hurri-Spit-Glad. I'm not so sure about the plan to collect RAF trainers though. Still too many in private hands.

Has the collection considered Dick Meltons Walrus project that is up for sale.

One last point, would it be possible to have a section in each display programme showing an individual photo of all the pilots, all too often the commentator forgets to mention pilot. They cant all be shy!

The beauty of OW is the timeless nature of the place, so, any changes really should be subtle.The only OW display I got to this year was September's Pageant (thank you the Met Office for such a hopelessly inaccurate forecast, hope it didn't affect numbers). Overall, it was an excellent display. I only have two comments. Firstly, I found the initial part of the Gladiator's display (fully aerobatic) to be unimpressive - too high, and, frankly, I don't enjoy the Collection's aircraft being flown in such a manner. Secondly, I did not enjoy Frank Chapman's barnstorming display in the Chipmunk. It was one of the few occasions in almost 40 years of airshows that I thought I was about to witness an accident - in my view it consisted of spontaneous, aggressive manoeuvres, too close to the ground - had me looking away expecting the worst on a couple of occasions.

These are quibbles really, as OW still has a magic atmosphere that no UK venue can match. It would be nice if some of the aircraft that weren't flying on the day could be rolled out into the sunshine for photography (eg probably unreasonable to expect the Fury replica to fly, but it would have been fab to have it out on the grass parked between the Gladiator and the Hind).

My main complaint at Shuttleworth has been the sales policy. I regard the disposal of Jean Batten's Gull as a heritage crime. The Mew Gull is arguably the most significant surviving British light aircraft and I sincerely hope that one day the Collection may acquire it.

I would echo the sentiments already expressed; an excellent season of flying and generally things are good with perhaps only minor points in need of addressing.

As others have observed, OW is a well kept secret if road signs are relied upon. Good signs would surely boost visitor numbers.

The pre-show commentary, when it happens, is useful and informative, particularly to first time visitors. However, it does not always happen. Why? I would also recommend that it contains a warning about prop wash. I have witnessed a couple of incidents this season where this has caused problems to unprepared visitors.

Aircraft? Well, from a purely personal viewpoint, have the Blenheim back when it flies again. It is/was beautiful and very impressive. I also much enjoyed the Nimrod that displayed during a 2002 show. Another fine example of a Hawker sea-going derivative of a land based fighter, to complement OW’s Sea Hurricane. To continue the Hawker theme, the Harrier always seems to be popular with the crowd and was sadly missing this year; unless one appeared in August when I was on holiday?

And finally, what about a replacement for the LVG? It would probably need to be a reproduction, but as the NAW contributions to OW demonstrate, these can be as good as an original. A Hanover, as per the old Airfix kit, would be just fine thank you, but a totally unrealistic dream I suspect!

MOTF - sorry if my comment on concessions appeared a bit rude, you have a good point and I'll pass it on.

Again, thanks to all who have replied, here’s a few answers for day 2:

Gladiator – the Scandinavians sponsored a recover and repaint of the Glad for a film back in the mid 90’s. We always had, and we still have, the intention of repainting it in RAF colours. The problem is engineering time. This winter should see the recovered Tutor back on the line, followed by the Tomtit. Next year we have to re-cover the Pup. In the meantime, the PO2 has to be brought onto the British register, and we have to get the Desoutter, Comper and ANEC on to permits to fly. Add to that the problem of annual permits and winter servicing nearly forty aircraft and you’ll see that the Glad will have to wait a few more years yet to go into Brit colours – on the other hand, you could always sponsor a change in scheme, if you feel that strongly about it……

Spitfire – she came out of the factory with rounded tips, so the present config is authentic. However, I don’t have a problem with changing back to clipped wings, what’s the consensus? Anyone care to start a poll?

BBMF round the Tower – why not ask ‘em.

Other aircraft – I take the point on the Avenger and Scout, and the foreign historics, but as said before, we do have a limited budget. Prices are set to go up again next year, but they’ll still be a lot cheaper than Duxford. Would you be prepared to pay double this years entrance fee, say, for the promise of a more varied show?

Barnstorming – an interesting comment Peter, but the barnstorming has proved to be a very popular addition to our shows. I don’t think we’ve ‘sold’ it to people such as yourself as well as we could, but barnstorming was a major event of the between the wars years and as a significant proportion of our aircraft are from that era, we decided to give it a try. We’re trying to re-create the atmosphere of 30’s acts, such as the Cobham Flying Circus, that were so popular at the time. The CAA were heavily involved in our work up and a risk assessment provided a satisfactory safety analysis. The art of display flying is to make it ‘spectacular, but safe’ and I believe we’ve achieved that in the way we present the Barnstorming.

Catering – OK you’ve made the point!

Harrier – we book it every year, but it’s down to the RAF Participation Committee as to whether it attends or not. Last year, it crashed at a display two days before it was due to attend OW, this year, we couldn’t get a booking. Keep your fingers crossed for next year.

LVG – the cross-wind was too strong last Sunday; the engine run was all we could do as a substitute. We’ve been really fortunate to have had the pleasure of seeing the LVG in the air; lets be thankful for what we’ve had, not sorry for what we’ve lost! She’s going back to her owners after a long loan, a good home in fact, that will ensure her static preservation for the future.

LVG replacement –I’d love to see a replica German WW1 machine in the Collection, but it must have an authentic engine. We already have a replica Sopwith Triplane and Bristol Monoplane, built by the Northern Aeroplane Workshops, a volunteer group who are currently building a Sopwith Camel, again for the Collection. I have the plans for a Fokker Triplane and a Collection colleague has those for a Fokker DVIII – any volunteers to start a ‘Southern Aeroplane Workshop’ to create the enemy? I’m afraid commissioning a replica is out of the question – the cost would be too prohibitive.

Aircraft policy – the current policy, if we ever need to have one, is ‘the First Hundred Years of Flight’. Recent decisions have been made mainly on financial ground in respect of acquisitions and sales – we have to stay solvent. I believe the trainer theme is a good one. It starts with the Boxkite and currently ends with a private owners aircraft, the Bulldog. I know some of the intermediate trainers are not as ‘sexy’ as some would like, but such so-called boring aircraft from early last century form the heart of the Collection now.

Walrus – what a good idea!

Pilots – the philosophy of the Collection is to show the sight and sound of the aircraft in the air, not the pilots. It’s best they remain, for the most part, anonymous. On the other hand, I do believe a Propswing from early this year did show a rather aged group of grey-haired gentlemen……….

Aibedane


(Moondance & SPT- I wrote this before I saw your post, I'll try to reply to it next time, apologies)

Airbedane

No probs, none taken.

Just out of interest how much would it cost to put the Gladiator into RAF Colours?

When you know what Alex Henshaw achieved in the Mew, it seems almost criminal that it is no longer with the Collection.

There are lots of Spitfires around - and more than one Hurricane. But only one G-AEXF! I was lucky enough to see her fly - and even though I've encountered a Lysander, the DH88 and even a Fokker DR1 in flight, nothing was as brilliant as the Mew....

One of THE most impressive displays I've seen at OW (about 10 years ago), was the Comet, Mew Gull and Hawk Speed Six in formation, as the opening sequence to the Pageant......Hawk Speed Six, there's another one that really belongs permanently at OW (and thanks for booking it for this year's Pageant)

Beagle & Moondance,

Sorry if I appear to be a swot, but the Mew Gull was never owned by the Shuttleworth Collection, but operated by one of their pilots...I suppose they could always pay the present owner to bring it back for a couple of displays.

Zlin

Fully appreciate that, but I thought that Des Penrose gave Shuttleworth first refusal on the Mew Gull and the Active when he sold them - just a great shame they didn't take up the offer (or more likely couldn't afford them)

Yes - that's why I said 'no longer with the Collection' rather than ' no longer owned by the Collection'......

Lucky chap, the current owner. And the Mew looks just right in the 'Cape' configuration.

Shall settle down now with a glass of malt and read Alex's 'Flight of the Mew Gull' for the umpteenth time......and keep my fingers crossed that perhaps one day she'll once again come racing round the tower at Old Warden!

Thanks for the prompt reply Airbedane- It is so refreshing to be able to contribute ones thoughts and opinions about air shows and have someone take note!!!!

If a significant hike in price for (say) one show a year means a RAF Gladiator and some tasty,rare visitors, I'm up for that!
spt- Almost forgot about the Nimrods appearance - a worthy OW visitor if ever there was one!! Book again next year please. It gets kinda lost at Duxford.

thanks again for the opportunity to express our feelings- any more airshow organisers out there willing to throw down the gauntlet so to speak ??? (A Gauntlet - yes, if only!!.................)

Theres one in Finland, shame it flies with the wrong engine fitted.:D

Sorry, totally of topic, but Airbedane will you be at Duxford on the 3rd-5th November?

SAS,

Duxford on 3 - 5 Nov: I hadn't planned to be there. Why, what's happening?



Dear All,

Again, thanks to all for posting – we appreciate your comment.

Aerobatics – It’s an emotional subject. We try to display the aircraft in the middle of the envelope, showing the sight and sound in the air. However, to do this effectively, some aircraft need to be turned upside down – I remember as a kid being disappointed with any Spitfire display that didn’t victory roll at the end. The Glad is another that benefits from some lazy aeros, but the characteristics of the engine demand a high minimum height. If the height that we display the aircraft detracts that much from what we try to achieve, then we’ll take the aeros off the menu – let me know what you think.

Barnstorming – I’ve put the main view in an above post. We’ve had good feedback and most who have seen it want it to stay. However, we are reviewing the content over the winter, so there may be some changes for next year.

Acquisition and disposal policy – I too was disappointed when I discovered that the Batten Gull had left, and more so when the Mew Gull and Active departed for Breighton. However, acquisitions in recent years have far outweighed disposals – Lysander, Comper Swift, Provost, Chipmunk, Prentice, PO2 – and on the limited budget we have, I don’t think we’ve done too badly.

Photography – it all comes down to manpower and money. On display days we have the manpower to push out ‘x’ aircraft. We’ve increased the number for each display over the past two years. Pushing out a few more for static photography was tried for a few seasons, but the effort involved far outweighed the revenue – after all, we do have to make money to survive, and when the Chief Engineer says: ’NO, NO MORE!’, who am I to argue!

Commentary – At next season’s work-up, I’ll ask the commentators to put in a prop-wash warning and also a pre-show brief.

LVG replacement and airshow content – please see my previous posts.

Speed Six – you can see my comments on Hairyplane’s Mmmmmmmmiles thread – to save you looking, it was a great machine to display at Old Warden and a sad loss when it left. I would like it back as soon as possible.

Cost of repainting the Glad – I’ll ask and let you know, MOTF

If people are really serious that they would be willing to pay more to see more, then let me know.

Keep 'em coming,
Airbedane

There is a course on "safety management of historic aircraft" All the usual crowd will be there OFC, Rod Dean etc. I was just wondering if Shuttleworth were being represented. You guy's do know a bit about it!

I'm going as it forms one module for the M.Sc I'm taking at the moment.

Airbedane, thanks very much for your comprehensive replies (and thanks very much for asking the question in the first place).
As regards the Gladiator aeros, maybe I'm being a bit over-sensitive after the Firefly tragedy (which I didn't witness) & Hoof Proudfoot's demise (which I did, and will never forget), but I just feel that sort of flying is out of place for Shuttleworth machines. As far as the Chippie barnstorming routine, the ribbon cutting was entertaining enough, but the ribbon pick up really made me feel uneasy, and what is the point? - sitting several rows back in the car park, the actual pick-up is so low as to be invisible.
Routines I have enjoyed in recent years have been the racing senarios (multiples displayed in an interesting & safe form) and the WW1 scenario (with extras in uniform & pyrotechnics - kids loved that one).
Please book the Nimrod again (Sea Hurri, Hind & Nimrod formation......), and how about the pprune/SVAS "Buy the Mew Gull" Fund (that's assuming it is available, which I would doubt)

I'm a bit late on this one, but I thought I would stick my twopence worth in!

How about a "Commentator Free Zone"
You could remove some of the tannoys at the far end on the main runway, giving people the option to watch the show without the PA.

Generally the commentators at OW get it just right, keeping quiet as the aircraft pass, but it would be nice to have the option to not hear them.

Also how about flying the Hind at the beginning, in the middle and at the end of every show - I just can't see and hear too much of that beauty.

Apart from that, there is no other airfield around the world ( and I've been to a few!) that I would rather watch an air display at.

Don't worry about the late call, Cameraone, the thread will be open for as long as it takes. That goes for anyone else, too, who has a point to make. I don't really care what you say, but whatever it is, I like to hear it....................if we don't know, we can't do anything about it!

Commentator free zone - I agree; personally, I just like to watch and hear, but the commentator is there for a safety reason too and it's important that all present can hear him or her. I asked the commentators this year to not talk as aircraft are flying past - maybe we need to have longer periods of silence on one or two acts. On the other hand, we do get a lot of visitors who need the comentary to understand what's going on - we'll have a think over the winter PLease comment again next year if you have anything to say.

Moondance - I do take the point about the ribbon pick up and we will be reviewing the Barnstorming over the winter. Thanks also for the comments on the scenarios - WW1 and racing, I'm not sure why, but we missed the later out this year.

No more time at the moment, be back later......

Please keep 'em coming in.

A

Perhaps this is rather a naive question but have you ever checked who actually goes to the Old Warden events. We know the enthusiasts will go to all the shows but what proportion are they? The reason I ask is that having watched airshows since the 50's I find as a Hertfordshire resident that there are too many shows to be able to afford them all i.e. 4 at Duxford, all the Old Warden events, Little Gransden, Woburn and Coventry all being within reach. I therefore select the ones with the "wow" factor and this year that has been Coventry and Duxford for the 747 and the geese! Perhaps some market research might be in order to see who the Old Warden public are and what they want.

Commentators are always controversial, but over the years, I've always felt the OW commentators to be far superior to the Duxford 'Love the sound of my own voice, laugh a lot at my own jokes' approach. Particulary approved of the bloke at the Pageant this year who had the taste to say a magnificent nothing during the Spitfire display - well done that man.

Freeloaders etc.
 

Hi everybody, Hi Airbedane - just back from a weeks sailing in Turkey (MMMmmm!!)

What an excellent idea of yours Ab to 'ask the punters' via PPrune - a very useful thread so far that will undoubtedly result in improvements.

OW has a huge potential - so few people I speak to have ever heard of the place or indeed have any idea what they are missing.

Freeloaders - Isn't it galling for a Charitable Trust to be ripped off in such a way? I regularly cycle down to 'chat' with them.

The majority line the public footpath and are unaware of the fact that they are trespassing simply by stopping to watch. A footpath is just that. It is provided for A-B access. Stop and you are a trespasser.

We plan to install signs to this effect next season.

Others congregate at the road/ footpath in the vicinity of the 21 threshold. Not the most sensible place to be. Warning signs are simply ripped down. It is a fairly busy road at weekends. Damage to the fence by cars is indicative of the road dangers yet people would rather risk their lives (and those of their families) to save a few bob.

There is a further plan to install a taller fence from the road to the windsock.

We then get to the 'I know my rights' hard core freeloaders who line the road.

These are downright sad, scummy people who are rude, abusive and threatening. I cannot print what has been said to me in the past. However, as an ex-cop, I have been insulted by experts in the past so it doesn't phase me.


THere is of course nothing to stop people standing on the verge of the highway. In the case of the adjoining fields (owned by the Trust but leased I believe) the deliniation between verge and field is impossible to determine.

Tenant cooperation, supported by proper fences and signs, will leave those freeloaders a much narrower strip alongside the highway. Very unpleasant but free all the same.

We can only reduce the problem. We can never eradicate it.

Any input from lawyers here will be appreciated.

HP