Gibson's Dog

[Gainesy]

Interesting reference to Guy Gibson and his dog Ni44er in the period when Gibson was Boss of 106Sqn at RAF Syerston in March 1943, shortly before he left to set up 617Sqn.

" I also met for the first time the overgrown menace that was Gibson's dog. He was a black mutt with a white chest and appeared to be mostly Labrador retriever; he was reputed to deflate bicycle tyres with one bite and I was warned by one of the gunners to treat him with respect."

From "Lancaster to Berlin" by Walter Thompson DFC*, RCAF.
(ISBN 0 907579 04 3)

So, it seems that the friendly, all-black and pedigree Lab in the film may have been slightly mis-cast.

[Genghis the Engineer]

Does sounds like an appropriate hound for a squadron boss however.

G

[Aerohack]

According to Susan Ottaway's biography of Gibson, which drew heavily on family records, the dog-whose-name-we-dare-not-speak was a pure-bred Labrador, acquired as a pup by Gibson and his wife Eve when he was stationed at West Malling with 29 Sqn. Ottaway says the dog "was a real character liked by almost everyone" and that his greatest fault was that he became a "hardened beer drinker", so that in the Mess no-one's pint was safe. Gibson's colleagues wouild often stand the hound a pint. The Labrador used in the film was an Army dog, trained in mine, rather than beer, detection

[John (Gary) Cooper]

Can we have a starter for ten?

Is the dogs name Nagger, Negger, ******, Nogger, Nugger or Nygger, it has to be one of those names as the second letter must be a vowel or the oft used 6th vowel to make any sense.

Any PPRUNERS out there please clarify?

[G085H1TE]

Dog's name was "N i g g e r".

Damn, now look you've made me go and say it. I'm sure to be clapped in irons and thrashed to within an inch of my life.

[CamelPilot]

Feel free! We ain't changing history on this forum. We talk about history, enjoy history and fortunately we cannot change it. N i g g e r was the dog's name and N i g g e r it will forever remain.

As a matter of fact I have been watching "Dam Busters" tonight on DVD - a bit of clever bit of enhancement now and again. A classic if ever there was one.

CP

[G085H1TE]

Absolutely agree with you CamelPilot 100%. I'm not really bothered about the "taboo" of the word today, the fact is that back then it was perfectly acceptable and that's the context we're discussing.

By coincidence I bought The Dambusters on DVD yesterday. I haven't watched it yet - what "clever enhancements" are there then?

[pr00ne]

GOBSH1TE,


"fact is that back then it was perfectly acceptable "

What the hell's that supposed to mean, I think you'll find it was offensive to black people then just as it is now!

The fact that there were far fewer of them in this country is not the point.

White people getting all hot under the collar about this makes me laugh, it's offensive to black people, NOT white people.

Sqn rumour in the sixties/early seventies on the V force had it that this dog was about as popular as Gibson was, ie not very!

It IS a historical fact that the dog was called what it was called and it is a nonsense to pretend otherwise. I think his choice of name tells us all we need to know about Gibson.

[TomPierce]

I think his choice of name tells us all we need to know about Gibson.

It does no such thing! That is just about as sanctimonious as you can get! Gibson named his black dog, as many others named a black - or dark brown - dog with that title. It was very popular at that time. We had a dog called by the same name. It was named by my father long before he was called up in 1941 to join the army where he was sent Accra, on the then Gold Coast. He matured some very good boxers at a club he ran there in his spare time and they came here after the war and performed very well indeed. One against Randolph Turpin - also black. But they didn't mind our dog being named as it was. My Dad was also fiercely campaigned against the colour bar that existed after the war.

In other words it was about innocuous as Robertson's Golliwog on their jam - which, incidentally, did not disappear until relatively recently. I have no doubt that Gibson never gave the name a thought. Certainly not in the way you suggest.

Whatever his men thought of him he was still a great leader.

However, you do concede that history cannot change it. Thank God that's the way it is.

[Beeayeate]

g085 wrote

"fact is that back then it was perfectly acceptable "

pr00ne followed up with . . .

"What the hell's that supposed to mean, I think you'll find it was offensive to black people then just as it is now!"

You were there?

What g085 means is that the term was in common useage as a word. It was, for example, the name given to a particular dark brown colour - and thought no more offensive at that time than words "blue", "magenta" or "pink". It was also the name of a particular brand of Cherry shoe polish. The word was used to describe the colour of cars, setees, suits, dresses, hats, dogs and, I think, cats and horses.

It was an inocuous adjective until those of a certain mindset began to feel guilty, called it a noun and debased it. Bit like the word "gay" really.

[Mrs_DamienB]

I'm not exactly ancient, but I used to work with someone a while back who had a bunny of the same name when he was growing up.

From what I remember of my childhood, this was just a word. We simply didn't connect it with insults!

[PAXboy]

acquired as a pup by Gibson and his wife Eve when he was stationed at West Malling with 29 Sqn.

Ah now, if only I could have asked my father about this matter. For a brief period of time, my father and his pilot were in Two-Nine as sprogs.

My father, who died two years ago, always spoke warmly of Gibson. In his own book, my father wrote about Gibson in the highest terms of praise possible.

[country calls]

I think you will find that the PC world we live in now is turning full circle. 'Nigga' is a well used word in the black rap music culture. It is only racist to use the term if you are adopting a derogaory tone, but the mainly white middle class new labour touchy feely people, who are only happy when they have a 'cause' to defend, have chosen to rewrite history on a number of topics, to defend their ok yah Ken Livingstone place in their little world. These are the same sort of people who sat on Brent Council in the 80s, and banned a Clint Eastwood film from being shown because the baddy, played by Lee Van Cleef wore a black hat and rode a black horse, thus stereotyping black as evil. Hello????

Anyway, Ive stashed my soapbox at the back of 245 and will relay a story from my time in the very early days of Tornado on the 617th Tactical Strike and Interdiction Sqn (Countryside redevelopers to the 3rd Reich). One of the newer roles after the move was that of airfield attack, and 4 jets were often launched to go and rattle windows for the good old TACEVAL at other units. One day though, all radio callsigns both ground and air were hastily changed to 'Blackdog', after one such surprise attack at a USAF base in East Anglia, where the black Base Commander choked on his Hershey Bar when he heard the call "****** formation running in now". I was later told that the matter got as far as the SofS for Defence for comment and profuse apology.

So quite rightly, we should all stamp out racism in any form it shows its ugly head, but what is in the annals of time should stay there unmolested, and without censorship from the Nanny State. Or we could end up saying that it wasnt true the Lancaster was a better bomber than the Stirling, for fear of upsetting our northern bretheren!

CC

[BEagle]

What's even more amusing is when a couple of black chums take the pi$$ and see how Whitey struggles to cope....

Back in the days of the G-nat, we had those silly formation callsigns like 'Milvus', 'Fervent', etc including 'Sambar'. One day, a mate who was of Jamaican descent and was having (didn't we all) a difficult point on the course was due to go on a flex trip with the sqn boss who was (I think) of Asian descent. So to brighten things up, they chose 'Sambar'...."Except, soul brother, we'll check in as 'Sambo' and see what the bug.gers make of that" decided the boss. Of course ATC knew who it was but didn't know whether they'd heard right or how to respond; our Jamaican chum relaxed considerably, breezed the trip and was taken off review. Later became a bit of a star on the Jaguar...


Incidentally, the Spams at Upper Heyford didn't like Weston-on-the-Green being referred to as WOtG with a silent 't' either...

[boris]

MrsDG said:-
"I'm not exactly ancient, but I used to work with someone a while back who had a bunny of the same name when he was growing up."

What does this say to all the ladies who worked in the Playboy Club in those distant years?

If this topic goes any further down the line, it should perhaps be consigned to Jet Blast?

[arthur harbrow]

There was a brief 15 minute programme on the making of the Dambusters yesterday.
Richard Todd told the story of how the dog in the film who played ****** would not go anywhere near the real Niggers grave.