RAE Farnborough - steeped in history
Bedford Boffins
John F: It was 101 deck landings by my count. Not everything we needed to learn required us to put the jet on the deck at the end of every approach. It was, as you and I discussed at Boscombe Down the Friday after we got back, real test flying.
Do a Hover - it avoids G
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NH
Well you should know the numbers (unless of course you were looking for your pen on the floor of the hut while J got in another 7)
I take your point about Farnborough, but the RAE was the RAE wherever its folks did their thing................
JF
Well you should know the numbers (unless of course you were looking for your pen on the floor of the hut while J got in another 7)
I take your point about Farnborough, but the RAE was the RAE wherever its folks did their thing................
JF
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John: You say "you are actually looking at a pic of the world's first fully automatic recovery and VL of a jet aircraft to a ship."
Accepting that it was not a success in service, but didn't that honour belong to the Yak38 ?
Accepting that it was not a success in service, but didn't that honour belong to the Yak38 ?
Do a Hover - it avoids G
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Henry
I wondered if anybody might pickup on that. Well done you.
My understanding of the Forger was that the crew had to set themselves up pretty close to the boat and tracking properly to lock on to a boat Tx that then carried out the decel trans and VL. Bit like their auto dockings in space.
That was obviously a great achievment but fell rather short of a full blown auto recovery to a ship and VL from a random position at considerable range.
Mind you they did do it all with a hydro mechanical computer under the cockpit floor that controlled all three engines. When I mentioned same to the then Pegasus designer back in the 70s he remarked "Yeh - and we are working on a developing a hydaulically controlled TV set too".
Regards
John
I wondered if anybody might pickup on that. Well done you.
My understanding of the Forger was that the crew had to set themselves up pretty close to the boat and tracking properly to lock on to a boat Tx that then carried out the decel trans and VL. Bit like their auto dockings in space.
That was obviously a great achievment but fell rather short of a full blown auto recovery to a ship and VL from a random position at considerable range.
Mind you they did do it all with a hydro mechanical computer under the cockpit floor that controlled all three engines. When I mentioned same to the then Pegasus designer back in the 70s he remarked "Yeh - and we are working on a developing a hydaulically controlled TV set too".
Regards
John
Here's an interesting point, how many RAEs were there?
I worked at Farnborough and Bedford (of which there were two, the airfield and the tunnel site).
I recall visiting RAE Pyestock (previously known as NGTE), and believe there was RAE Aberporth.
Was West Freugh part of the RAE empire?
Where else was part of this wondrous organisation that taught so many of us our trade?
G
I worked at Farnborough and Bedford (of which there were two, the airfield and the tunnel site).
I recall visiting RAE Pyestock (previously known as NGTE), and believe there was RAE Aberporth.
Was West Freugh part of the RAE empire?
Where else was part of this wondrous organisation that taught so many of us our trade?
G
Aberporth and Wet Through certainly were RAE, as were Llanbedr and Larkhill.
Then there were also operating airfields at places such as Pershore and Defford, which were RRE/RSRE - airfields supporting Malvern.
Along with A&AEE/A&AEE/DGT&E/DERA Boscombe Down, they are all one big happy QQ family now, of course. (Less Llanbedr).
I bet I've missed a couple of RAE outstations, too. Was Cobbett Hill one?
Then there were also operating airfields at places such as Pershore and Defford, which were RRE/RSRE - airfields supporting Malvern.
Along with A&AEE/A&AEE/DGT&E/DERA Boscombe Down, they are all one big happy QQ family now, of course. (Less Llanbedr).
I bet I've missed a couple of RAE outstations, too. Was Cobbett Hill one?
Back to the Top
The last sortie before Christmas always used to be a good one. It was usually an instument test flight, with the regular crew on board. After the test sortie had been flown, it would turn into a crew training trip. Usual suspects, smoke and fumes, fire, simulated loss of an engine etc.
However, just before the engineer ditched all non-essential power, the loadie would ensure that the essential did include the oven.
Returning to Farnborough as the last aircreaft home, we would declare a practice emergency. We would come to a halt on the runway, and a practice emergency evacuation would follow, appart from the volunteer casualty. She (usually a she for some reason
) would "hide" inside the aircraft, and the firemen and medics would then try and find her, treat some imaginary appauling injurg, carry her out and load her into the ambulance.
Exercise over, we would be joined by our ground crew from Western Sqn, the loadie would then return to the aircraft, and bring out a tray of hot mince pies from the oven, and cold beers from the ramp. The traditional MRF Christmas beers on the runway would then follow! We were usually joined by ATC, fire, medics airfield ops as well as our ground crew. Beers drunk, the aircraft would be towed back to Western Sqn, and all return to MRF for the traditional Christmas Barrel.
This even transformed from a humble barrel from number one officers' mess to a mini beer festival. I think our record was almost 19 real ales on tap! If arranged far enough in advance, it was even possible to get partners on site for the event! If you invite the police, then there are no problems! Survivors breakfast followed some time next morning, followed by the clear up.
Happy days.
Was never quite the same again after the move down to Boscombe.
The last sortie before Christmas always used to be a good one. It was usually an instument test flight, with the regular crew on board. After the test sortie had been flown, it would turn into a crew training trip. Usual suspects, smoke and fumes, fire, simulated loss of an engine etc.
However, just before the engineer ditched all non-essential power, the loadie would ensure that the essential did include the oven.
Returning to Farnborough as the last aircreaft home, we would declare a practice emergency. We would come to a halt on the runway, and a practice emergency evacuation would follow, appart from the volunteer casualty. She (usually a she for some reason
) would "hide" inside the aircraft, and the firemen and medics would then try and find her, treat some imaginary appauling injurg, carry her out and load her into the ambulance. Exercise over, we would be joined by our ground crew from Western Sqn, the loadie would then return to the aircraft, and bring out a tray of hot mince pies from the oven, and cold beers from the ramp. The traditional MRF Christmas beers on the runway would then follow! We were usually joined by ATC, fire, medics airfield ops as well as our ground crew. Beers drunk, the aircraft would be towed back to Western Sqn, and all return to MRF for the traditional Christmas Barrel.
This even transformed from a humble barrel from number one officers' mess to a mini beer festival. I think our record was almost 19 real ales on tap! If arranged far enough in advance, it was even possible to get partners on site for the event! If you invite the police, then there are no problems! Survivors breakfast followed some time next morning, followed by the clear up.
Happy days.
Was never quite the same again after the move down to Boscombe.
Snoopy Caravan
Lightningmate
When I was last at Farnborough, the control caravan out of Snoopy, that I spent several thousand hours flying around the world in, was still sitting in the car park behind Y46.
I was wondering if it was still there?
I know there are mutterings elsewhere to get the aircraft to either Duxford or Cosford after Marshalls have finished their engine trials for the A400M. I just thought it would be nice if Snoopy and the van could be re-united?
When I was last at Farnborough, the control caravan out of Snoopy, that I spent several thousand hours flying around the world in, was still sitting in the car park behind Y46.
I was wondering if it was still there?
I know there are mutterings elsewhere to get the aircraft to either Duxford or Cosford after Marshalls have finished their engine trials for the A400M. I just thought it would be nice if Snoopy and the van could be re-united?
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Snoopy,
Walked around the back of Y46 today, no caravan, just a length of pipe stretching across the car-park.
I thought the Cloggies were after Snoopy? From your comment, it seems not.
lm
Walked around the back of Y46 today, no caravan, just a length of pipe stretching across the car-park.
I thought the Cloggies were after Snoopy? From your comment, it seems not.
lm
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I'd gathered the Cloggies angle also, also as a replacement for the tragic Xv179, but no, a test bed she apparently will be.
Ah, 30 years ago at a fag free boarding school a few miles south of Guildford, your totally bored, absolutely non-academicaly inclined, spotty teenager found his maths and English lessons enlivened by:
Mr Farley and colleagues in and out of Dunsfold in a variety of Hawks and Harriers (and if I recall also the Blue Fox Hunter(s))and once, in '76, the Miles Student. John F, do you recall that instance and why?
Various oddities from Farnbrough - Varsities and a strange Herc with a Barbars' Pole proboscis which may seem familiar to this thread, and the odd Hunter and other types;
Extremely low 707s and the like transiting in best hooligan fashion from Gatwick for TLC at Dan-Air's Lasham health spa for geriatric airliners.
The other classrooms faced the wrong way.
Oh, and David Lockspieser's..., er, ODD looking LDA-01 which blew the Bursar's mind as it flew overhead. "I've been working too hard" he muttered...
Happy days!
Ah, 30 years ago at a fag free boarding school a few miles south of Guildford, your totally bored, absolutely non-academicaly inclined, spotty teenager found his maths and English lessons enlivened by:
Mr Farley and colleagues in and out of Dunsfold in a variety of Hawks and Harriers (and if I recall also the Blue Fox Hunter(s))and once, in '76, the Miles Student. John F, do you recall that instance and why?
Various oddities from Farnbrough - Varsities and a strange Herc with a Barbars' Pole proboscis which may seem familiar to this thread, and the odd Hunter and other types;
Extremely low 707s and the like transiting in best hooligan fashion from Gatwick for TLC at Dan-Air's Lasham health spa for geriatric airliners.
The other classrooms faced the wrong way.
Oh, and David Lockspieser's..., er, ODD looking LDA-01 which blew the Bursar's mind as it flew overhead. "I've been working too hard" he muttered...
Happy days!
Last edited by treadigraph; 22nd Jul 2005 at 04:31.
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Hi all
there was an short artical on Marshals plans for "Snoopy" in Flight international two weeks ago. According to the artical they will be removing the barbers pole and overhead radome before converting it into th A400M engine test bed. So when they have finished with her she will not be the plane we all know and love!!!.
On a slightly different note the toy company Corgi are releasing a limited edition Buccaneer in R.A.E. livery! They have done a few others in the past. (Comet, Viscount, C-47 and the Tornado). I just hope that the do Seaking mk4 ZB507!
Rgds Dr.I
P.S. any ex apprentices out there I will be at the reunion in September, look out for the drunk with a R.A.E. tie on!!
there was an short artical on Marshals plans for "Snoopy" in Flight international two weeks ago. According to the artical they will be removing the barbers pole and overhead radome before converting it into th A400M engine test bed. So when they have finished with her she will not be the plane we all know and love!!!.
On a slightly different note the toy company Corgi are releasing a limited edition Buccaneer in R.A.E. livery! They have done a few others in the past. (Comet, Viscount, C-47 and the Tornado). I just hope that the do Seaking mk4 ZB507!
Rgds Dr.I
P.S. any ex apprentices out there I will be at the reunion in September, look out for the drunk with a R.A.E. tie on!!
John Farley at Farnborough
I remember what I think was John's last flight out of Farnborough in a Harrier. He was taking G-VTOL back to Dunsfold after an airshow, and as he taxied out, asked if we had a bit of concrete available for his departure. He was duly lined up at the beginning of the runway (then 25 now 24) and came to a halt right on the edge of it. His clearance from radar was something like 'straight ahead to 2000ft then left turn for Dunsfold'
As I expected, he executed one of his 'rocket' takeoffs, lifting vertically and rotating until the aircraft was perpendicular whilst climbing away. As he accelerated towards the sky, he rolled the aircraft until its belly pointed at Dunsfold, then simply pushed over to the horizontal on reaching 2000ft, immediately accelerating to about 450kts! It took him maybe 3 minutes to reach Dunsfold. Awesome, and something that no other aircraft (or pilot?) can do
As I expected, he executed one of his 'rocket' takeoffs, lifting vertically and rotating until the aircraft was perpendicular whilst climbing away. As he accelerated towards the sky, he rolled the aircraft until its belly pointed at Dunsfold, then simply pushed over to the horizontal on reaching 2000ft, immediately accelerating to about 450kts! It took him maybe 3 minutes to reach Dunsfold. Awesome, and something that no other aircraft (or pilot?) can do
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RAE Farnborough 24ft Wind Tunnel Opens
BBC TV "South Today" carried an item about the restoration of the great 24ft wind tunnel on the old RAE Farnborough site on the evening programme today.
It looks like its restoration is complete and is now open to the public to admire and dream about heady days of real British Aviation....
Can't find anything on the web to say it's open now, including now't on the Farnborough Air Sciences Trust site.
Anything about this anywhere else ?
The FAST museum at Farnborough of saved RAE artefacts is well worth a visit...
It looks like its restoration is complete and is now open to the public to admire and dream about heady days of real British Aviation....
Can't find anything on the web to say it's open now, including now't on the Farnborough Air Sciences Trust site.
Anything about this anywhere else ?
The FAST museum at Farnborough of saved RAE artefacts is well worth a visit...
Here's a site with lots more piccies and details: Click here
And there's even a couple available on eBay at the moment (although I'm sure that plenty of other places sell them as well): eBay link. (No connection to the seller, BTW).
HTH,
B73
May be wrong, but I think '370 broke its back doing an engine off landing in about '90 or '91, but then if it's in ETPS markings rather than RAE -----!
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Re Post #134 "Awesome, and something that no other aircraft (or pilot?) can do"
If memory serves, this was the basis of the Lightning FCS , ( OR-946 I think.) Near vertical climb, roll and push onto heading. All done with Euler angles.....
Standing by to be corrected .
PW
If memory serves, this was the basis of the Lightning FCS , ( OR-946 I think.) Near vertical climb, roll and push onto heading. All done with Euler angles.....
Standing by to be corrected .
PW
Last edited by Cpt_Pugwash; 20th Dec 2006 at 14:34. Reason: Inclusion of previous post # for clarity