Dam Buster re run
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Manchester
Posts: 68
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The link is not displaying correctly.Use this one.
http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=m...3/damb0403.htm
http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=m...3/damb0403.htm
The stories below happened a while back as you can imagine.....
A lot of Mid Wales is a very low flying area (100') and I can remember going up to one of the local dams (Nant y Moch) and seeing the recovery crews pull out a Bucaneer and 2 JP's over the years. All crews banged out safe I'm glad to say. Now I wonder if they were "playing "dam busters????
I have also stood 1/2 way over the same dam and seen 2 Hunters coming straight at the dam and the jet exhaust actually blow the water into a high wall behind the a/c. In my estimation no more than 8' above the water.....WOW!!!
Also "attacking" the same dam in more recent times Ive seen F111's at about 20' over the water, F14's even lower....gulp!
A lot of Mid Wales is a very low flying area (100') and I can remember going up to one of the local dams (Nant y Moch) and seeing the recovery crews pull out a Bucaneer and 2 JP's over the years. All crews banged out safe I'm glad to say. Now I wonder if they were "playing "dam busters????
I have also stood 1/2 way over the same dam and seen 2 Hunters coming straight at the dam and the jet exhaust actually blow the water into a high wall behind the a/c. In my estimation no more than 8' above the water.....WOW!!!
Also "attacking" the same dam in more recent times Ive seen F111's at about 20' over the water, F14's even lower....gulp!
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: Lincolnshire UK
Posts: 178
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm looking forward to seeing the two part show, but however good it is, it's a shame that the TV company's original plans didn't work out as it would have been a real treat for Lancaster fans in the UK. Can't remember the name of the Canadian TV company behind it all, but I do remember were also behind the recently successful 'Billy Elliot' film.
Anyway..about a year ago their idea was to bring the Canadian Lanc to the UK in order to fly it with PA474 in the making of this programme. Things initially looked promising, the CWH were happy with the Lanc coming to the UK , and the RCAF had agreed to provide a C-130 as an engineering support aircraft. At least one of the Canadian Lanc pilots travelled to visit BBMF at Coningsby to talk about the feasibility of it all, but to cut a long story short, the programme's budget was cut and the dream of two Lanc's flying together over the UK came to nothing. A great shame, as I'm sure the aircraft could of earned enough money from joint 'Dambuster' airshow appearances to justify its journey, even without the TV work...I was already dreaming of two Lanc's in formation, flying over NX611 at East Kirkby as it rolled down the runway with its tail up...Ah well, back to reality!
Anyway..about a year ago their idea was to bring the Canadian Lanc to the UK in order to fly it with PA474 in the making of this programme. Things initially looked promising, the CWH were happy with the Lanc coming to the UK , and the RCAF had agreed to provide a C-130 as an engineering support aircraft. At least one of the Canadian Lanc pilots travelled to visit BBMF at Coningsby to talk about the feasibility of it all, but to cut a long story short, the programme's budget was cut and the dream of two Lanc's flying together over the UK came to nothing. A great shame, as I'm sure the aircraft could of earned enough money from joint 'Dambuster' airshow appearances to justify its journey, even without the TV work...I was already dreaming of two Lanc's in formation, flying over NX611 at East Kirkby as it rolled down the runway with its tail up...Ah well, back to reality!
Last edited by AirportsEd; 7th Apr 2003 at 18:47.
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: yes
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just watched the show, I have to admit I have mixed feelings. The crew were a mixed bunch for obvious TV and PC reasons and unless I am very much mistaken there were no actual navigators which seemed a curious omission considering the emphasis on navigation. I was intrigued by the comment that Lucy was a 'figher pilot waiting for a transfer to flight refueling aircraft' Eh? I thought most 'fighter pilots' would rather shoot themselves than transfer to heavies. I wonder what the real story is?
I was a bit disappointed by the 'set'. It did rather resemble a theatre set which can't really have added to the authenticity. Plus the fact that they were wearing modern flight suits. Within the limitations of budget I would have preferred a more enclosed fuselage, authentic flight gear with all the bulkiness that entailed. Cold air blown into the fuselage and the sound of four merlins with added vibration would make it a real test. As it is the gunners are just sitting on the floor with wooden guns in an unrealistic set in some room with flashing lights and cameras.
Which begs the question. What is the point of this programme?
To prove that young people nowdays can do just as well as the wartime generation. Or prove they can't. Or just to show how tough it was? But if that was the case why not more authenticity? As a tribute to the Dambusters themselves or Bomber Command as a whole? Probably.
I'll watch the next programme with interest.
I was a bit disappointed by the 'set'. It did rather resemble a theatre set which can't really have added to the authenticity. Plus the fact that they were wearing modern flight suits. Within the limitations of budget I would have preferred a more enclosed fuselage, authentic flight gear with all the bulkiness that entailed. Cold air blown into the fuselage and the sound of four merlins with added vibration would make it a real test. As it is the gunners are just sitting on the floor with wooden guns in an unrealistic set in some room with flashing lights and cameras.
Which begs the question. What is the point of this programme?
To prove that young people nowdays can do just as well as the wartime generation. Or prove they can't. Or just to show how tough it was? But if that was the case why not more authenticity? As a tribute to the Dambusters themselves or Bomber Command as a whole? Probably.
I'll watch the next programme with interest.
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: On a radial
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I agree, the set left a lot to be desired..... completely open with tube lighting and small flat screen monitors... really realistic 
i'm sure they could have done better! I saw the comment as well about (lucy?) being a fighter pilot waiting for a transfer v.strange!
It was good however, that they took some of them to canada to fly the lanc... how envious, its not that often you see a lanc flying in the twilight let alone getting the chance to fly it!!
We'll see how they do next week.... any bets??? i give em 10-1
c
i'm sure they could have done better! I saw the comment as well about (lucy?) being a fighter pilot waiting for a transfer v.strange! It was good however, that they took some of them to canada to fly the lanc... how envious, its not that often you see a lanc flying in the twilight let alone getting the chance to fly it!!
We'll see how they do next week.... any bets??? i give em 10-1
c
If they had brought the Canadian Lanc over they could have shown us what it was like to fly at 30' and have another Lanc overtake below - as described by the real Dambuster F/E Mr Drayton.
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: 18nm N of LGW
Posts: 238
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think you might find, but I will check, that Ray Grayston said it was 60' with a Lanc going underneath. 30' and one under might be a tad too much to take.
The stated height of the Lanc with the gear down I presume, is 26' 6ins (6.25m).
Not much margin for error!!
The stated height of the Lanc with the gear down I presume, is 26' 6ins (6.25m).
Not much margin for error!!
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Some of the posts above sum up my feelings about this show.
While there were some interesting parts, notably the contributions from the veterans, the reconstruction part I found trivial and patronising. Without any clues to the selection process used, it seemed to me to owe more to modern mores and PC to have a female captain. Lucy did not make much impression as a "natural leader", which makes me wonder why she was selected, if not for "TV reasons".
The point regards "fighter pilot about to turn to heavies" I think owes more to "spin", (Spin as in New Labour, not aeros!). The crew have not gone beyond FTS - they were shown "waiting for posting" at Cranwell and the point was made early on about the reasoning behind using crew straight out of training. I also noticed one of the guys was wearing a shirt under his flight suit with "FTS" on it. So, it's fair to say Lucy is no "fighter pilot". The point was also made about the turning circle of the Lanc being so much larger than the "small aircraft and little jets she is used to". I would guess that she was chopped from the fast jet stream.
Ultimately however, this experiment is meaningless in much the same way as "The Trench" was. However realistically (or not!) things are recreated, what is really nothing more than yet another reality show cannot in any way recreate the feeling of not knowing whether you would see another dawn. That is vital to understanding what the guys of 617 and the RAF during the 1939-45 show did - without that you're just playing soldiers.
While this show might prove that today's generation are equally capable of navigating to the target using old methods and they could drop an Upkeep on target (Cynical me - any bets on them failing to do this?!), that will be all it can do.
While there were some interesting parts, notably the contributions from the veterans, the reconstruction part I found trivial and patronising. Without any clues to the selection process used, it seemed to me to owe more to modern mores and PC to have a female captain. Lucy did not make much impression as a "natural leader", which makes me wonder why she was selected, if not for "TV reasons".
The point regards "fighter pilot about to turn to heavies" I think owes more to "spin", (Spin as in New Labour, not aeros!). The crew have not gone beyond FTS - they were shown "waiting for posting" at Cranwell and the point was made early on about the reasoning behind using crew straight out of training. I also noticed one of the guys was wearing a shirt under his flight suit with "FTS" on it. So, it's fair to say Lucy is no "fighter pilot". The point was also made about the turning circle of the Lanc being so much larger than the "small aircraft and little jets she is used to". I would guess that she was chopped from the fast jet stream.
Ultimately however, this experiment is meaningless in much the same way as "The Trench" was. However realistically (or not!) things are recreated, what is really nothing more than yet another reality show cannot in any way recreate the feeling of not knowing whether you would see another dawn. That is vital to understanding what the guys of 617 and the RAF during the 1939-45 show did - without that you're just playing soldiers.
While this show might prove that today's generation are equally capable of navigating to the target using old methods and they could drop an Upkeep on target (Cynical me - any bets on them failing to do this?!), that will be all it can do.
Last edited by WebPilot; 8th Apr 2003 at 19:29.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 154
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'Spin recovery' action required?
Excuse awful pun
Shame as there has been some quite good stuff coming out of late.
Given the OTT PC of the programme I half expected there to be a dawg called Honky trotting around
Excuse awful pun
Shame as there has been some quite good stuff coming out of late.
Given the OTT PC of the programme I half expected there to be a dawg called Honky trotting around
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Yes, I noticed that although there was a long shot out of the squadron offices of ******'s grave and a film clip of him trotting along behind GG on his bike, his name was studiously avoided.
Still, look on the bright side. If programmes like this, however laughable, keep the heroism of the RAF and its history in the public eye then it's not all bad.
-----------
Oh Hell, even here you can't use the poor dog's name! Aaaarrggh!
Still, look on the bright side. If programmes like this, however laughable, keep the heroism of the RAF and its history in the public eye then it's not all bad.
-----------
Oh Hell, even here you can't use the poor dog's name! Aaaarrggh!
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: On a radial
Posts: 361
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Is Scampton still operational???? I thought i heard that it closed, hence why the reds relocated to Cranwell for a short time, (i remember them flying past the window whilst i was having my medical for an FS at Cranwell) Not a bad start to the day!!
C
C
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Kent, UK
Posts: 174
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Scampton did close and go onto Care & Maintainance for a couple of years. The Arrows are back there now though although various other bits of the site are leased out - Old Machine Flying Co have some of their collection in one of the aircraft sheds there.
http://www.raf-waddington.com/specials/scampton.htm
http://www.raf-waddington.com/specials/scampton.htm
Last edited by WebPilot; 8th Apr 2003 at 22:54.
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: New South Wales
Posts: 1,794
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ultimately however, this experiment is meaningless in much the same way as "The Trench" was. However realistically (or not!) things are recreated, what is really nothing more than yet another reality show cannot in any way recreate the feeling of not knowing whether you would see another dawn. That is vital to understanding what the guys of 617 and the RAF during the 1939-45 show did - without that you're just playing soldiers.
QDM
Not so N, but still FG
Join Date: May 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,417
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Obviously, a full motion simulator would have cost zillions and was out of the question, but they could perhaps have added loud noise and (if possible) some vibration, and/or some force feedback on the controls. Wearing period clothes, mae wests etc would have been a good idea also (perhaps they do in the next episode). I think that it's a bit harsh to make adverse comments about the crew: each of them, including the pilot, has passed the rigorous selection criteria for military aircrew, which I certainly haven't, and I suspect that some of the other posters haven't either.
PS: just seen QDM's post and tend to agree with it.
PS: just seen QDM's post and tend to agree with it.
FNG:
"Huge speakers, with industrial-sized sub-woofers, were positioned to amplify the realistic sound of the four Merlin engines from the simulator into a roar with enough power to make the whole set-up shake!"
Taken from the Just Flight Press release at :
http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=...03/damb0403.htm
I can't get this link to reproduce in full for some reason, just cut and paste.
"Huge speakers, with industrial-sized sub-woofers, were positioned to amplify the realistic sound of the four Merlin engines from the simulator into a roar with enough power to make the whole set-up shake!"
Taken from the Just Flight Press release at :
http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=...03/damb0403.htm
I can't get this link to reproduce in full for some reason, just cut and paste.
Not so N, but still FG
Join Date: May 2000
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,417
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Perhaps the noise in the simulator has been edited down somewhat to make the footage intelligible, as it must have been for the sequences filmed in the airborne Lancaster.
The first few minutes of the programme had me worrying that it would be full of cheapo 'MSFlightsim' (or whatever that spotters' toy is called) graphics. But it improved considerably as time went by....
Personally, I thought that there was a lot of very good CRM being displayed - particularly by the quietly assertive 'captain'. I'm sure that she'll be very welcome on whichever AAR squadron she's being 'transferred' to.... But I've only got 1 more day at work before my 120 days of leave starts, so if she's destined for VC10s - good luck Lucy! Shame I won't get to meet you!
Have just obtained a VHS copy of 'The Dam Busters'. Glad to say that Nig.ger is called by his correct name; in fact, in his first scene, after Richard Todd's first line of "Rad. shutters....AUTO", the n-word (Nig.ger) is used about 6 times in 20 seconds!
Personally, I thought that there was a lot of very good CRM being displayed - particularly by the quietly assertive 'captain'. I'm sure that she'll be very welcome on whichever AAR squadron she's being 'transferred' to.... But I've only got 1 more day at work before my 120 days of leave starts, so if she's destined for VC10s - good luck Lucy! Shame I won't get to meet you!
Have just obtained a VHS copy of 'The Dam Busters'. Glad to say that Nig.ger is called by his correct name; in fact, in his first scene, after Richard Todd's first line of "Rad. shutters....AUTO", the n-word (Nig.ger) is used about 6 times in 20 seconds!
