Vulcan to be sold on E-Bay
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Blacksheep
I asked my father, who was involved in the flight trials of the Vulcan, about your point on trim.
He recalled that the length to span ratio on the Vulcan was much larger than that of Concorde which relies very heavily on fuel movement for C of G etc. He said it was quite fun to give the controls a whack and listen to all the fuel sloshing about, on many occaisions he was convinced the fuel would come right through the bulkhead.
I do not know the answer for certain, but maybe because of the above it quite possible to do without some of the fuel tanks and manage happily with the ones that are left. For display purposes I guess the plane would be almost empty so maybe thats another reason.
I'm sure those with flying experience on Vulcan's would know for sure.
I asked my father, who was involved in the flight trials of the Vulcan, about your point on trim.
He recalled that the length to span ratio on the Vulcan was much larger than that of Concorde which relies very heavily on fuel movement for C of G etc. He said it was quite fun to give the controls a whack and listen to all the fuel sloshing about, on many occaisions he was convinced the fuel would come right through the bulkhead.
I do not know the answer for certain, but maybe because of the above it quite possible to do without some of the fuel tanks and manage happily with the ones that are left. For display purposes I guess the plane would be almost empty so maybe thats another reason.
I'm sure those with flying experience on Vulcan's would know for sure.
I've been following this thread since it started, and am still trying to think of a useful comment on this shocking bit of news.
I think I'll stick to: Bloody Hell!!!
That Vulcan belongs in the air!
I think I'll stick to: Bloody Hell!!!
That Vulcan belongs in the air!
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There is quite a big difference between "Vulcan to be sold on e-bay" and "Vulcan to be offered for sale on e-bay"
I will certainly offer £100, subject to free delivery to my local airfield at Booker.
I will certainly offer £100, subject to free delivery to my local airfield at Booker.
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Re the bit about trim, CofG and fuel tanks. Normally the ac was operated (and thus the CogG kept in limits) with fuel proportioners running in automatic, which meant running the booster pumps at varying speeds (and thus fuel pressure) in accordance with a mechanical device to do the timing and switching. The low fuel handling drill involved manual organisation, with the proportioners switched off and the co-pilot managing the fuel usage and Cof G by switching on and off the booster pumps. Fuel transfer was permitted forward and aft between the 2 extreme forward tanks (no 1) and extreme aft tanks (no7), which fed the outer engines.
There was a guage showing FUEL CofG on the centre panel, and the co-plt had a slide rule calculator. He did a calculation before flight to determine the AIRCRAFT Cof G which was his starter for fuel management.
As for flying WITHOUT fuel tanks - I'm not convinced. The tanks themselves are part of the ac structure, not to mention the weight/CofG equation. The ac was flown in the cruise at .86Mach, which equates to 480KTAS at FL400, or 8 nm/min. It used to take about 4.5hrs to make Lincolnshire to Goose Bay, usually bucking a jetstream headwind, but I guess UK-Keflavik-Goose would be feasible.
However, the CAA I feel would not sanction the flight unless the ac was pretty much complete. On the subject of the CAA, you might like to know that they are on-side. The CAA heavy test pilot has taxyed the ac round Bruntingthorpe under the watchful eye of Dave Thomas. He is optimistic that it could be given airworthy status by the CAA, and of all people, he is a major moving force.
My credentials? 8 years and 2000hrs poling the mighty beast.
There was a guage showing FUEL CofG on the centre panel, and the co-plt had a slide rule calculator. He did a calculation before flight to determine the AIRCRAFT Cof G which was his starter for fuel management.
As for flying WITHOUT fuel tanks - I'm not convinced. The tanks themselves are part of the ac structure, not to mention the weight/CofG equation. The ac was flown in the cruise at .86Mach, which equates to 480KTAS at FL400, or 8 nm/min. It used to take about 4.5hrs to make Lincolnshire to Goose Bay, usually bucking a jetstream headwind, but I guess UK-Keflavik-Goose would be feasible.
However, the CAA I feel would not sanction the flight unless the ac was pretty much complete. On the subject of the CAA, you might like to know that they are on-side. The CAA heavy test pilot has taxyed the ac round Bruntingthorpe under the watchful eye of Dave Thomas. He is optimistic that it could be given airworthy status by the CAA, and of all people, he is a major moving force.
My credentials? 8 years and 2000hrs poling the mighty beast.
FJJP - 'Proportioners' is rather a generous description of those primitive electrically driven 'sequence timers' which whirred round every 15 minutes operating a suitable system of cams and contacts to switch 14 boost pumps between high and low speed!
Not sure of the current bomb bay tank configuration of '558 - does it have any drum tanks or 'A & E' tanks?
I don't recall ever having taken off with any tank deliberately empty. But certainly in flight we'd occasionally run some of the central tanks to 'white MIs' (not all simultaneously!) and then run the panel in Manual to squeeze a little more range out of the beast. Made it harder for the co-pilot (me), of course.....
The Spams have always had a warm spot for the Vulcan. Back in 1979 we were coming back to Barksdale after the Giant Voice semi-final. There wasn't enough fuel to make Barksdale, so we'd been pre-booked into McConnell for a pit stop. On our way in, the nearby 'Wichita mid-continent' airport said that they'd never seen a Vulcan, so could we route via them? Well - silly question or what! They held a Lear Jet on the Runway whilst I whistled along it at 350 kts and 100 ft, then pulled up in a big wingover right over the good citizens of Wichita before joining downwind at McConnell. It caused quite some interest - the locals thinking that it was anything from a UFO to some new secret aeroplane! The next day when the other 2 ac in the semi-final landed there were press, TV and radio folk lining up to talk about the new Brit superbomber. They couldn't believe how old it really was......
Just think what an updated Vulcan with a few dozen JDAMs would be capable of today!
Not sure of the current bomb bay tank configuration of '558 - does it have any drum tanks or 'A & E' tanks?
I don't recall ever having taken off with any tank deliberately empty. But certainly in flight we'd occasionally run some of the central tanks to 'white MIs' (not all simultaneously!) and then run the panel in Manual to squeeze a little more range out of the beast. Made it harder for the co-pilot (me), of course.....
The Spams have always had a warm spot for the Vulcan. Back in 1979 we were coming back to Barksdale after the Giant Voice semi-final. There wasn't enough fuel to make Barksdale, so we'd been pre-booked into McConnell for a pit stop. On our way in, the nearby 'Wichita mid-continent' airport said that they'd never seen a Vulcan, so could we route via them? Well - silly question or what! They held a Lear Jet on the Runway whilst I whistled along it at 350 kts and 100 ft, then pulled up in a big wingover right over the good citizens of Wichita before joining downwind at McConnell. It caused quite some interest - the locals thinking that it was anything from a UFO to some new secret aeroplane! The next day when the other 2 ac in the semi-final landed there were press, TV and radio folk lining up to talk about the new Brit superbomber. They couldn't believe how old it really was......
Just think what an updated Vulcan with a few dozen JDAMs would be capable of today!
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Hi Beags - just thort that 'proportioners' sounded much more obvious to the layman than 'sequence timers'. However, you're right - the STs were horror stories in design, but they worked, didn't they? although they tended to shove the CofG forward - if memory serves me right.
Not sure what the bombbay tank config is for 558, but I suspect double drums or empty...
Not sure what the bombbay tank config is for 558, but I suspect double drums or empty...
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Proportioners? Jesus! I can think of lots of other names for them and most of the other electrical components of the Vulcan, but such language is too rough for use outside Jet Blast
Pilots tend to be blind to what really goes into getting an aeroplane ready for departure - probably just as well, since knowing some of that stuff would make them less enthusiastic about strapping the big piles of scrap to their backsides. How much do know about the thirty seven fire extinguishers and the associated Graviner FFFD ["Fault Free Fire Detection" for heavens sake!!!] that prevented the leaky old fuel tanks from bursting into flames? Honestly, there was some seriously crappy electrics in the Vulcan, which kept me and hundreds of other electricians busy round the clock and made me into the "Ace" electrician I remain today. I don't imagine that any of that rubbish is any more reliable now than it was 33 years ago. If anyone ever needs to refuel a Vulcan in Borneo, I still have my regulation issue diamond tip file, but I've no idea where to find any of the other 20 Kgs of specialist equipment that us electricians hauled around the flight line, just to do a pre-flight.
There are lots of things to consider - once all existing tyres have reached their ultimate storage life for instance, [and they must be close to scrap by now], replacements would have to be custom built. How much do you reckon custom built tyres cost?
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Through difficulties to the cinema
Pilots tend to be blind to what really goes into getting an aeroplane ready for departure - probably just as well, since knowing some of that stuff would make them less enthusiastic about strapping the big piles of scrap to their backsides. How much do know about the thirty seven fire extinguishers and the associated Graviner FFFD ["Fault Free Fire Detection" for heavens sake!!!] that prevented the leaky old fuel tanks from bursting into flames? Honestly, there was some seriously crappy electrics in the Vulcan, which kept me and hundreds of other electricians busy round the clock and made me into the "Ace" electrician I remain today. I don't imagine that any of that rubbish is any more reliable now than it was 33 years ago. If anyone ever needs to refuel a Vulcan in Borneo, I still have my regulation issue diamond tip file, but I've no idea where to find any of the other 20 Kgs of specialist equipment that us electricians hauled around the flight line, just to do a pre-flight.
There are lots of things to consider - once all existing tyres have reached their ultimate storage life for instance, [and they must be close to scrap by now], replacements would have to be custom built. How much do you reckon custom built tyres cost?
**************************
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They held a Lear Jet on the Runway whilst I whistled along it at 350 kts and 100 ft, then pulled up in a big wingover right over the good citizens of Wichita before joining downwind at McConnell. It caused quite some interest - the locals thinking that it was anything from a UFO to some new secret aeroplane!
I've heard it said that although the mighty Aluminium Overcast would not be much cop these days as a war plane, it would find an excellent role in physiological warfare; instilling fear in the enemy's civilian population by doing a few full-power pull-ups over their heads ;~))
SSD
I've heard it said that although the mighty Aluminium Overcast would not be much cop these days as a war plane, it would find an excellent role in physiological warfare; instilling fear in the enemy's civilian population by doing a few full-power pull-ups over their heads ;~))
SSD
