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Lockheed P-80 compared to Gloster Meteor and DH Vampire

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Lockheed P-80 compared to Gloster Meteor and DH Vampire

Old 18th Mar 2024, 08:55
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by chevvron
Another thought; what fuel did these early jets burn?
From: https://ethw.org/Jet_Fuel :
The first jet engines were developed between 1939 and 1941 in Germany[1] and Great Britain.[2] The early experimental flights were accomplished by burning hydrogen, gasoline, diesel, and kerosene for illumination. Eventually, only lamp kerosene and car gasoline were used in the final prototype flights. However, gasoline presented a major problem: at the time, it had a low flashpoint[3] which made fires much more likely in case of accident.
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Old 18th Mar 2024, 11:28
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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Right from the start Whittle used/specified kerosene as the fuel for his jet engines.
And yes there were special bowsers for aviation kerosene available for the early jets.
I was trying to remember if I had read that there was an RAE Aircraft with a kerosene tank also available to fly quickly to any location if one of the early development jets landed away from 'home' due to low fuel ?
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Old 18th Mar 2024, 12:59
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Originally Posted by longer ron
I was trying to remember if I had read that there was an RAE Aircraft with a kerosene tank also available to fly quickly to any location if one of the early development jets landed away from 'home' due to low fuel ?
I doubt if there was room in either the E28/39 or 'Land Crab' (Vampire) for an extra fuel tank with alternate fuel but the Meteor, having its engines in the wings, probably had room in the fuselage if there was ever one fitted.
Arthur C Clarke related a tale in his wartime novel 'Glidepath' (based on some elements of fact) where a 'Meteor' landed away at an airfield in 'Cornwall'; I vaguely recall he called this airfield 'St Erryn'.
Whatever, if a jet aircraft had to land 'away' from base during this period, they would have to refuel with something to get it home because all that would be available would be AVGAS (unless there just happened to be somewhere which had a bulk supply of domestic paraffin nearby).
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Old 18th Mar 2024, 15:16
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I know virtually nothing about gas turbines, but I do know that the Vipers in the Shackleton MR.3 ran on Avgas because it was carried for the Griffons.

I "may" have read that they could only run on it for a limited time, possibly because of jet pipe temperatures. On the other hand, that could be complete gibberish.

St Erryn sounds quite feasible as a minor adjustment of RNAS St Merryn, near Padstow.
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Old 18th Mar 2024, 16:41
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Originally Posted by chevvron
I doubt if there was room in either the E28/39 or 'Land Crab' (Vampire) for an extra fuel tank with alternate fuel but the Meteor, having its engines in the wings, probably had room in the fuselage if there was ever one fitted.
Sorry if I didn't make myself clear Chevvy - I meant a 'Hack' aircraft with a kerosene tank - you know something like an old Wellington etc.
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Old 18th Mar 2024, 16:47
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Originally Posted by DHfan
I know virtually nothing about gas turbines, but I do know that the Vipers in the Shackleton MR.3 ran on Avgas because it was carried for the Griffons.
I "may" have read that they could only run on it for a limited time, possibly because of jet pipe temperatures. On the other hand, that could be complete gibberish.
.
A jet engine can run on almost any fuel such as gasoline,diesel or kerosene - may need slight burner nozzle mod ? to run happily on petrol.
The american jet fuel (JP4) was 50/50 petrol/gasoline until they saw sense and changed to kerosene in 1995 (?) to JP8.
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Old 18th Mar 2024, 16:52
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Originally Posted by DHfan
I know virtually nothing about gas turbines, but I do know that the Vipers in the Shackleton MR.3 ran on Avgas because it was carried for the Griffons.
I "may" have read that they could only run on it for a limited time, possibly because of jet pipe temperatures. On the other hand, that could be complete gibberish.
I can't recall the detail but during my time at Hatfield ('56-'93) there was a report that a 125 had been refuelled with AVGAS as nothing else was available. It went well and it seemed that the insides of the tailpipes went the tasteful grey that we motorists knew and loved in those days of leaded petrol
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Old 19th Mar 2024, 11:28
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Originally Posted by DHfan
St Erryn sounds quite feasible as a minor adjustment of RNAS St Merryn, near Padstow.
Yes I thought that too. Wish I still had my copy, I'd like to read it again; I think it was published under at least one alternative title,.
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Old 19th Mar 2024, 11:31
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Originally Posted by longer ron
Sorry if I didn't make myself clear Chevvy - I meant a 'Hack' aircraft with a kerosene tank - you know something like an old Wellington etc.
Sounds entirely feasible; I had personal experience of the RAE techies innovating and they were superb at it.
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Old 19th Mar 2024, 16:32
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I lived near Bovingdon , near not close and still in Herts and have vague memories of military pistons heading to or from the airfield. QQ has a great list that would have been fantastic to see for variety.

I was intrigued to see the last one on the list which was presumably there to fight for lower taxes and immigration control as being RepublicAN Thunderbolt=probably predictive text . Maybe Trump will try and steal the phrase I am am sure he would like to be seen as a Republican Thunderbolt

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