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Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre

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Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre

Old 6th Mar 2024, 20:34
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I have feeling an article I saw about Mike Nixon at Vintage V-12s mentioned he'd acquired a load of Packard Merlins from water pump useage in California; hydroplane racing might have been another source for his stock of spare bits 'n' bobs...
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Old 7th Mar 2024, 07:00
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In the video the Sabre is described as a total loss oil system and that the green engine has the fuel delivery system which is missing on others.
Just two points of interest others may find interesting.
Keeping fingers crossed to seeing and hearing a Typhoon at some point.
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Old 11th Mar 2024, 23:18
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Originally Posted by longer ron
ISTR that from a previous S Fury accident report - the normal oil consumption figure was 12 - 20 imp pints per hour depending on power setting.
That is a lorra lorra oil to pay for

My Austin Apache that I drove whilst working in zimbabwe was almost as bad
My wife's Austin Allegro (donated by my mother) was a pint to the mile
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Old 12th Mar 2024, 00:31
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Originally Posted by WB627
My wife's Austin Allegro (donated by my mother) was a pint to the mile
I've no idea of how many miles I did now but I used to buy a 99p gallon of oil a week for my 1962 Vauxhall Cresta.

So far, I think you've got the winner.
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Old 13th Mar 2024, 22:40
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Episode 3 just dropped.

Quite an emotional ending…

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Old 14th Mar 2024, 00:27
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Dropped?
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Old 14th Mar 2024, 00:31
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[QUOTE=DHfan;11615278]Dropped?[/QUOTE

From ‘drag and drop’…
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Old 14th Mar 2024, 15:35
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The green Sabre turns out to be a Sabre V, the correct type to put in a Tempest V. The other engine is a Sabre III which is a Firebrand engine. Looks like the Tempest V project will move into a higher gear... that is interesting news!
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Old 14th Mar 2024, 17:05
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Is there much commonality between the Sabre Tempest and Typhoon?
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Old 15th Mar 2024, 09:34
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They look similar, but as to commonality, I doubt that there is much you could easily swap out between them. The Tempest used a completely new, thinnner, wing. The front fuselage was lengthened to accomodate an extra fuel tank (to cover for the loss of fuel storage in the wings) and because of this a new tail (with more surface area) was needed too. They use similar construction techniques, with a steel tube fuselage cockpit section mated to a semi-monocoque rear fuselage and tail.

Edit: just to illustrate the development path a bit more, this is the Hawker Tornado, an early parallel development version of the Typhoon. This airframe was built up from two airframes that were in production when the order for Tornados was cancelled. It was re-engined with a Centaurus CE.4S engine and used as a testbed for various Centaurii, leading to the later Tempest II.

15_002600 Hawker Tornado HG641 by SDASM Archives, on Flickr

Last edited by Jhieminga; 15th Mar 2024 at 11:19. Reason: Added Tornado image.
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Old 15th Mar 2024, 14:25
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J, that `Tornado` looks like it has a `Mercury` fitted,with the front cowling exhaust ring,and 3 bladed prop...
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Old 15th Mar 2024, 15:19
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As Jhieminga, stated, it's an early Centaurus.

If an aeroplane is designed for 2000+hp, it's hardly likely to be fitted with an engine with around a third of the power.

The same picture is in Putnam's Hawker book, along with another one of the same aircraft with a later Centaurus and a four-bladed prop.
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Old 15th Mar 2024, 15:19
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There is a comprehensive history of the Tornado here: https://oldmachinepress.com/2020/12/...rnado-fighter/. According to that story it was a Centaurus engine with three bladed prop and common exhaust. This is the same airframe with a different prop and cowling configuration:


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Old 18th Mar 2024, 17:00
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Don't know about the Centaurus but the approved beverage for the smaller Hercules in the 202 Sqn Hastings was OMD-270. It so happened that this heavy lubricant was well suited to our 1936 Hillman Minx, giving oil pressure of 35psi instead of 5. And Dad just happened to be serving on 202 Sqn.
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Old 18th Mar 2024, 17:19
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My understanding is that the Centaurus is much more picky about its oil than the Hercules, though I don't know why.
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Old 18th Mar 2024, 18:23
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I found an ancient post on the FP forum which said the oil for the Centaurus was AeroShell 100 U, apparently specially formulated for the engine.
One squadron or flight used OMD-270 instead in the Centauruses on their Beverleys in the middle east. Possibly because of high ambient temperatures?

Much to my surprise, it also said the TBO for the civil Centaurus was 3000 hours.
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Old 19th Mar 2024, 17:26
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Sounds very optimistic, I would think 1000 hrs would be closer. Back to the Sabre, and the 1946 editions of Flight (can be seen online) carry Napier's adverts for the Sabre rated at 5000bhp -- yes five thousand) for civil use. But by then it was clear that the future lay with jets. A brilliant design whatever way you look at it.
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Old 19th Mar 2024, 17:45
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I agree it seems unlikely, but I'm only repeating what was posted, eight years ago, and it's not a user name I recognise although he was a regular poster,

He also said the civil Merlin TBO was 1000 hours.

Presumably they are documented somewhere?
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Old 20th Mar 2024, 20:36
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The common factor between the 2 engines covered by this thread (Sabre and Centaurus) is the Bristol Aeroplane Company Ltd - Aero-engine Department. When the Sabre first entered service it was equipped with sleeve-valves (S-Vs) manufactured and machined by Napier; it was these that were the cause of many of the early S-V failures, even during 2-hr acceptance tests. It was only when help was requested from Bristol, who were by now well-versed in the production of S-Vs for their family of S-V engines, that the problem was solved as Bristol Taurus S-Vs could be adapted for use in the Sabre. Napier's own S-Vs usually lasted 20 to 30 hrs before wear caused excessive oil consumption (hence the 25 hrs TBO I referenced above) whereas Bristol S-Vs lasted 120 hrs without trouble.
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Old 12th Apr 2024, 17:40
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I thought this might be of interest, it's from Flight March 1944...
Attached Files
File Type: pdf
Napier Sabre II.pdf (1.58 MB, 48 views)
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