Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre
Thread Starter
Kermit Weeks Napier Sabre
Interesting video regarding Kermit's Napier Sabre.
The obvious question is, are those restorations using an early Napier Sabre doomed to failure?
I would say 'doomed to a path with lots of challenges'. As there aren't all that many Sabres lying about, having one in your possession is a step closer to the ultimate goal and as mentioned in the video, having an early model could also be the starting point for a swap. Also, it's not impossible to get an early one running, but seeing as Kermit has two Sabres available, I can see Richard's point in selecting the later model.
Edit: I have uploaded a cutaway image here: https://www.vc10.net/div/NapierSabre_cutaway.jpg It shows a bit of the complexity of the engine. It's an impressive beast.
NapierSabre by Jelle Hieminga, on Flickr
Edit: I have uploaded a cutaway image here: https://www.vc10.net/div/NapierSabre_cutaway.jpg It shows a bit of the complexity of the engine. It's an impressive beast.
Last edited by Jhieminga; 4th Mar 2024 at 09:55. Reason: added link to image
The following users liked this post:
The following 2 users liked this post by VictorGolf:
Interesting video regarding Kermit's Napier Sabre.
MiniPix UK V24 16x9 Vo1 (youtube.com)
The obvious question is, are those restorations using an early Napier Sabre doomed to failure?
MiniPix UK V24 16x9 Vo1 (youtube.com)
The obvious question is, are those restorations using an early Napier Sabre doomed to failure?
There's not exactly a large list of sleeve valve experienced engine shops around that might be willing to do it. I remember Kermit was struggling to find any engine shop 30 odd years ago willing to take it on, back when Paul Coggan did a feature on it for Warbirds Worldwide.
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: Starring at an Airfield Near you
Posts: 371
Received 15 Likes
on
7 Posts
My father was 'Q'ed on the Sabre. He said it was a beautiful piece of engineering, but a bastard to maintain. If the ignition timing wasn't 'just right', one bank of cylinders would end up 'driving' the other, with concomitant demise of the gearbox an inevitability. TBO between major servicings was 25 hrs and a plug chage was a complete pain in the tender parts. It was also a bit of an oil slinger too.....
I would guess that all sleeve-valve engines are a bit oily with effectively twice as many cylinder oil films required. One between the sleeve and the block and another between the piston and sleeve.
At some point in the video Richard mentions that sleeve valve engines have a chart in their manual that shows how much oil it should consume per hour. If you're below that, you're out of oil.
Avoid imitations
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Wandering the FIR and cyberspace often at highly unsociable times
Posts: 14,573
Received 422 Likes
on
222 Posts
I remember my father showing me a manual of a sleeve valve engine after explaining the basic principles of the four stroke cycle using a Merlin engine workshop manual (which I still have over sixty years later), when I was about five or six years old. It was difficult for me to imagine how such a thing was ever designed and built. He explained that the weak spot of these engines was ensuring sufficient lubrication of the sleeve itself.
ISTR that from a previous S Fury accident report - the normal oil consumption figure was 12 - 20 imp pints per hour depending on power setting.
That is a lorra lorra oil to pay for
My Austin Apache that I drove whilst working in zimbabwe was almost as bad
That is a lorra lorra oil to pay for
My Austin Apache that I drove whilst working in zimbabwe was almost as bad
I had a '62 Vauxhall Cresta that used nearly as much oil as petrol.
I've just remembered the first time I ever heard of a sleeve-valve engine. It was in the middle sixties and an article in Motor Sport about the original Daimler Double Six, with a Knight principle V12. Obviously paraphrasing, it's nearly sixty years ago, but it was something along the lines of: "proceeding silently along the road, followed by a cloud (or haze) of blue smoke."
I've just remembered the first time I ever heard of a sleeve-valve engine. It was in the middle sixties and an article in Motor Sport about the original Daimler Double Six, with a Knight principle V12. Obviously paraphrasing, it's nearly sixty years ago, but it was something along the lines of: "proceeding silently along the road, followed by a cloud (or haze) of blue smoke."
Absolutely - my Austin Apache (which was basically an 1100 with a triumph style front end and saloon/boot) had an engine leak (cannot remember where from).
But I took 2 friends up to Harare from Thornhill AFB (about 170 miles) - pulled into petrol station in Gatooma which was approx half way - they said ''need petrol ?'' not really says I but we will need some oil.
My main use of the Apache was across town to the gliding club so the oil consumption was not normally a big deal
But I took 2 friends up to Harare from Thornhill AFB (about 170 miles) - pulled into petrol station in Gatooma which was approx half way - they said ''need petrol ?'' not really says I but we will need some oil
.My main use of the Apache was across town to the gliding club so the oil consumption was not normally a big deal
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,623
Received 294 Likes
on
162 Posts
The Centaurus prefers a particular grade of mineral oil as I recall, which is more or less unobtainable now; haven't some of the failures been attributed to other oils used instead doing damage? Think it's been discussed on here before...
Always an absolute pleasure listening to Richard talking about such matters, he is so clear in his explanations as the storehouse of knowhow in his mind pours out at a digestible rate!
Always an absolute pleasure listening to Richard talking about such matters, he is so clear in his explanations as the storehouse of knowhow in his mind pours out at a digestible rate!
Yes, it's a particular grade of AeroShell, which Shell will make, but understandably there's a minimum order of about a grillion* gallons.
It seems that in theory a specified substitute is suitable, but not necessarily in practice.
*Copyright Douglas Adams.
It seems that in theory a specified substitute is suitable, but not necessarily in practice.
*Copyright Douglas Adams.
Gnome de PPRuNe
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Too close to Croydon for comfort
Age: 60
Posts: 12,623
Received 294 Likes
on
162 Posts
True but, as he says, Kermit would really to go some to reach 1000hrs on it, even if Richard gets the thing airborne in the next year or two. A trip up to Oshkosh and back from Polk City probably would only amass 10 to 15 hours I'd imagine.
I trust Kermit will fly the thing at a UK display or two before shipping it home. Assuming it does come here for restoration. Roll on Part 3...
Interspersed with his purchase and relocation of The Cosmic Muffin... anyone got some B-17 wings to spare? How come I didn't see that when I went on a boat tour of the Fort Lauderdale waterways 30 years ago...
A trip up to Oshkosh and back from Polk City probably would only amass 10 to 15 hours I'd imagine.I trust Kermit will fly the thing at a UK display or two before shipping it home. Assuming it does come here for restoration. Roll on Part 3...
Interspersed with his purchase and relocation of The Cosmic Muffin... anyone got some B-17 wings to spare? How come I didn't see that when I went on a boat tour of the Fort Lauderdale waterways 30 years ago...
There's a rumour that the last batch of it left was sitting in one of the storage tanks that went up with the Buncefield oil terminal explosion......but I suspect there's no truth in that though.
I don't know... the Sabre got a bad reputation due to the problems with the early versions. The servicability of the later versions, such as in the Tempest TT.5, was fine according to several sources (just don't ask me to list these right now...).
I read something in Group Captain Desmond Scott's Typhoon Pilot about the Typhoon's Sabres being susceptible to engine rapid failure in Normandy due to ingestion of sand on the forward airstrips damaging the cylinders. Apparently an efficient air filter was designed in a matter of days to fix the problem.
I`m sure I read some yrs ago on the `real` Flypast` forum that `someone had found that there were some Sabres being used as water pump engines` in S.California..Don`t recall if it was verified,as it was at the time `Flypast` changed hands.....So ,who knows....