Navigation by Camelsat 1920's Cairo to Baghdad
Thread Starter
Navigation by Camelsat 1920's Cairo to Baghdad
Navigation by Camelsat, 1920's ploughed furrow linking Cairo to Baghdad. Is anyone aware of a official history of what at first appears to be an almost biblical undertaking to link the two cities I understand it was a nav marker for DH9A's and Bristol fighters carrying imperial mails. Thanks in anticipation
Whoa. Great article.
And here is the link to the documentary. 15 min film with some incredible footage.
Found at IWM . Org . Uk
Some interesting things I noted.
1. 3:37min - That’s a large biplane. Vickers Vernon? Never heard of them. Shameful I know. I’m guessing single pilot? Or was there an engineer / co-pilot / passenger that would help start the engines on landing stops in the middle of nowhere?
2. Same time frame…dogs haven’t changed. Little nuts chasing each other
3. 10:57 - as it taxi’s past (with the airfield dogs chasing it) it maybe looks like there IS two pilots? Can’t quite make out if there is or not.
4. 12:28 - nice shot approaching underneath the big bird. Looks like a swastika next to the RAF roundel. What was the purpose of that in the 1920’s on an RAF aircraft?
5. 13:00 - I’m assuming those are all the tail skid marks on the airfield?
6. 13:07 - control tower? Seems to be operating on around 0.004 movements per hour. Mostly that coming from the car (13:22). Interesting before cutting away he grabs a giant megaphone. Signalling arriving aircraft I assume?
Wow, amazing stuff.
And here is the link to the documentary. 15 min film with some incredible footage.
Found at IWM . Org . Uk
THE CAIRO BAGHDAD SERVICE AIRMAIL [Main Title]
Search catalogue number : IWM 878Some interesting things I noted.
1. 3:37min - That’s a large biplane. Vickers Vernon? Never heard of them. Shameful I know. I’m guessing single pilot? Or was there an engineer / co-pilot / passenger that would help start the engines on landing stops in the middle of nowhere?
2. Same time frame…dogs haven’t changed. Little nuts chasing each other
3. 10:57 - as it taxi’s past (with the airfield dogs chasing it) it maybe looks like there IS two pilots? Can’t quite make out if there is or not.
4. 12:28 - nice shot approaching underneath the big bird. Looks like a swastika next to the RAF roundel. What was the purpose of that in the 1920’s on an RAF aircraft?
5. 13:00 - I’m assuming those are all the tail skid marks on the airfield?
6. 13:07 - control tower? Seems to be operating on around 0.004 movements per hour. Mostly that coming from the car (13:22). Interesting before cutting away he grabs a giant megaphone. Signalling arriving aircraft I assume?
Wow, amazing stuff.
IWM film is here : THE CAIRO BAGHDAD SERVICE AIRMAIL [Main Title] | Imperial War Museums (iwm.org.uk)
I think the aircraft is a Vickers Vimy Commercial derivative, which had that bulbous nose unlike the original WW1 bomber. Various versions of this seem to have gone by different names (Vanguard, Victoria, Vernon etc). The latter described here :
Vickers Vernon - Wikipedia
I'm surprised it ran from Cairo. The mails brought from the UK by sea would have arrived at Alexandria, which became a key transfer point in the 1920s-30s for Imperial Airways, at the junction of their African and Asian routes, both for flying boats and landplanes. The mails would have had to be transferred on the Alex-Cairo railway, adding a day to the supposedly rush transit.
I wouldn't like to be right behind those huge, fixed-pitch props when starting the engines. Yet one of them even manages to keep his hat on !
I think the aircraft is a Vickers Vimy Commercial derivative, which had that bulbous nose unlike the original WW1 bomber. Various versions of this seem to have gone by different names (Vanguard, Victoria, Vernon etc). The latter described here :
Vickers Vernon - Wikipedia
I'm surprised it ran from Cairo. The mails brought from the UK by sea would have arrived at Alexandria, which became a key transfer point in the 1920s-30s for Imperial Airways, at the junction of their African and Asian routes, both for flying boats and landplanes. The mails would have had to be transferred on the Alex-Cairo railway, adding a day to the supposedly rush transit.
I wouldn't like to be right behind those huge, fixed-pitch props when starting the engines. Yet one of them even manages to keep his hat on !
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1. 3:37min - That’s a large biplane. Vickers Vernon? Never heard of them. Shameful I know. I’m guessing single pilot? Or was there an engineer / co-pilot / passenger that would help start the engines on landing stops in the middle of nowhere?
The Vernons were flown by a crew of four: two pilots, a mechanic, and a wireless operator.
Whoa. Great article.
And here is the link to the documentary. 15 min film with some incredible footage.
Found at IWM . Org . Uk
4. 12:28 - nice shot approaching underneath the big bird. Looks like a swastika next to the RAF roundel. What was the purpose of that in the 1920’s on an RAF aircraft?
Wow, amazing stuff.
And here is the link to the documentary. 15 min film with some incredible footage.
Found at IWM . Org . Uk
THE CAIRO BAGHDAD SERVICE AIRMAIL [Main Title]
Some interesting things I noted.4. 12:28 - nice shot approaching underneath the big bird. Looks like a swastika next to the RAF roundel. What was the purpose of that in the 1920’s on an RAF aircraft?
Wow, amazing stuff.
Vickers Vernon aircraft of 45 Squadron RAF are wheeled out and their controls are checked. (Both have individual identifying symbols painted on the underside of the lower wing inboard of the roundel. In one case the 'Solomon's Seal' or Star of David, in the other the left-handed swastika.
Swastikas are commonly seen as decorations on temples in SE Asia.
Yes that was what I was thinking. I knew the original meaning. Was that a standard RAF thing for that time or just for the section involved in this route?
The logistics, cost, effort involved in this seems huge for that time period. You’d want some good luck I’d think!
The logistics, cost, effort involved in this seems huge for that time period. You’d want some good luck I’d think!
Thread Starter
Cairo to Baghdad navigation by Camelsat
[QUOTE=India Four Two;11321736]Swastikas are commonly seen as decorations on temples in SE Asia.[/
Wonderful response folks, many thanks for all your inputs. I'll work it up into a lecture for my u3a history group as they are always on the lookout for the quirky and unusual subjects. Seems more like Crossley tender and armoured cars than camelsat, interesting to see how often it had to be reinstated due to dust storms etc
Wonderful response folks, many thanks for all your inputs. I'll work it up into a lecture for my u3a history group as they are always on the lookout for the quirky and unusual subjects. Seems more like Crossley tender and armoured cars than camelsat, interesting to see how often it had to be reinstated due to dust storms etc
interesting to see how often it had to be reinstated due to dust storms etc
This story fascinated me and I now see that modern science has gone on to confirm long held beliefs that humans do have a natural sense of direction. Unfortunately it was of no help to me during 600 hours of flying and many years of small boat sailing.
This story fascinated me and I now see that modern science has gone on to confirm long held beliefs that humans do have a natural sense of direction.
SWBKCB,
I am sure primative peoples had a far better sense of direction (and position) in the past but, in our modern world this has been lost. However, how much of that is innate rather than observation from living close to the natural world and thus being very sensitive to the natural and stellar signs all around them is open to debate. Certainly, ancient travellers in the desert would have known the stars and also the signs on the ground, as did the Polynesian navigators with their understanding of the stars and the wave patterns in the sea.
Civilisation has submerged (obliterated?) so many of these ancient sensitivities.
I am sure primative peoples had a far better sense of direction (and position) in the past but, in our modern world this has been lost. However, how much of that is innate rather than observation from living close to the natural world and thus being very sensitive to the natural and stellar signs all around them is open to debate. Certainly, ancient travellers in the desert would have known the stars and also the signs on the ground, as did the Polynesian navigators with their understanding of the stars and the wave patterns in the sea.
Civilisation has submerged (obliterated?) so many of these ancient sensitivities.
I seem to remember the remains(?) of a ploughed furrow in the desert a bit "southish" from El-Adem to what then was known as "Nasser's Corner", before turning a bit port to get to Khartoum. Early '60's so maybe the memory ccts. are no longer reliable! Bill
I don't wish to blow my own trumpet, but I found during PPL training that I was better and more innate in which way to go and where we were over the ground than my instructor. Just to offset, he was of course way better at circuits, flaring, holding altitude, and a whole lot more. Different things for different people. I don't use the Satnav in my car much for directions.
