Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Misc. Forums > Aviation History and Nostalgia
Reload this Page >

Sunderland airshow cancelled due to climate change.

Aviation History and Nostalgia Whether working in aviation, retired, wannabee or just plain fascinated this forum welcomes all with a love of flight.

Sunderland airshow cancelled due to climate change.

Old 20th Oct 2022, 15:41
  #41 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 5,438
Received 22 Likes on 12 Posts
"Sunderland must be a fun place to live!"

Known as "The Dark Place" by residents of Newcastle
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2022, 16:04
  #42 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Flying Binghi View Post
Without the true believers the modern version of ‘climate change’ would not exist..

Old fashioned climate change would still exist:
.

A new study details how a much warmer climate than today led to the disappearance of glaciers and ice caps during the sub-300 ppm CO2 Early to Middle Holocene. The Arctic’s modern ice extent is among the largest of the last 10,000 years.

https://notrickszone.com/2022/08/29/...000-years-ago/
None of which is an excuse to do nothing. But it won't stop people still trying to justify it. It's like saying you won't bother putting out a fire in your house if it's caused by lightning,
Pypard is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2022, 19:52
  #43 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Europe
Posts: 76
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by fineline View Post
If we are to prevail in achieving a sustainable version of a modern, advanced civilisation we will need to teach kids who will spend the prime of their careers between now and a mid-century "net-zero" economy to:
(a) understand the climate itself, which is an aggregation of the weather
(b) hence a need to understand meteorology
© appreciate observable meteorological phenomena - cloud formations, wind speed and precipitation
(d) reason about how these relate to numerical data - temperature, pressure and humidity
(e) understand energy systems, the accumulation, conservation and conversion of energy
(f) understand power systems - engines, motors, and storage - legacy and emerging
(g) get a feel for why any of this matters - what the difference is between how we live now and the middle ages
(h) make it interesting, get their attention and make them care

I can't think of a better way to inspire this kind of thinking than an air show.

OR:

Just teach them "who's to blame", "who to vote for" and "how to feel depressed, scared and helpless" in the face of the challenges we face.

I guess the second one is easier and cheaper - why "educate" when you can settle for "indoctrinate".

I have these conversations a lot, with people who think "climate change" (a convenient proxy for the broader challenge of maintaining a sustainable civilisation going forward) is a "political" or "moral" issue. Saves having to actually do the sums, face up to the biggest "technical" challenge we have yet faced, and raise our kids accordingly.

I have great faith in the innovative and creative capacity of humanity to take on challenges such as this, but boy does that faith take a hit on a regular basis when I see intellectually lazy, morally cowardly nonsense like this.
Couldn’t agree with this post more. The black and white naive thinking of the Covid response will be catastrophic when it comes to climate change. It appears that IS exactly what we are doing. Induce maximum fear, spend maximum dollars and produce suboptimal results, whilst a few just get richer in the process. The need for people to seek comfort in their tribe instead of actually using their brain is the biggest threat we have to humanity now.
Bindair Dundat is offline  
Old 20th Oct 2022, 20:04
  #44 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: East Lothian
Age: 70
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Probably due more to ecomomics. East Fortune air show used to be scheduled for the same day with an almost identical line-up. Presumably there would have been some sort of cost sharing. Once East Fortune scrubbed their airshow, weather was not reliable enough around here, Sunderland presumably would have had a poor return on their investment.
Low Level Pilot is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2022, 01:30
  #45 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,509
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Pypard View Post
None of which is an excuse to do nothing. But it won't stop people still trying to justify it. It's like saying you won't bother putting out a fire in your house if it's caused by lightning,
Perhaps yer just need to point out that they’ve claimed the house to be on fire several times before when it weren’t …and it ain’t on fire now. Like all dooms day cults do, they just put their hands over their ears and just keep chanting the mantra..
Flying Binghi is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2022, 09:32
  #46 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: 11 GROUP
Age: 76
Posts: 1,218
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 2 Posts
Facts of Life

Originally Posted by N707ZS View Post
Council didn't like to say they are skint and the number of available aircraft for displays are down. They cannot blame covid this year so 10 points for the new eco excuse.
Councils are having to show they are trying to 'assist' the Carbon Neutral scenario.
Airshows are an easy target as they would find the visual effect of all those engines rather difficult to justify to the ratepayers who are subsidising it. Of course many of those RP's really enjoy the spectacle of it all, but the balance will be rather spoilt by the financial loss that it comes with.
We also have the Councils using the 'Work from Home' argument as their contribution to CC. Easy to show some benefit on paper at the Council meetings, but in truth the system is not really working as the WORK ELEMENT is difficult to proove as a 'service', with long delays in actually getting things done.
Covid has had a dramatic ongoing effect to everything, and Airshows are also caught up with the carbon debate so unless someone comes up with an 'offset plan' that is also a financial winner then the reality of local real airshows are a real issue for a local authority. These can be replaced by 'virtual shows' that offer some of the spectacle but in a different way. Eventually someone will 'reinvent' a real airshow again and we can start the wheel turning again. (may be a while though)


POBJOY is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2022, 09:34
  #47 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 5,438
Received 22 Likes on 12 Posts
Originally Posted by Flying Binghi View Post
Perhaps yer just need to point out that they’ve claimed the house to be on fire several times before when it weren’t …and it ain’t on fire now. Like all dooms day cults do, they just put their hands over their ears and just keep chanting the mantra..
Binghi - coming for a country that has seen records fires and floods in the last 10 years you might want to revisit your opinion................
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2022, 11:54
  #48 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,509
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
Binghi - coming from a country that has seen record fires and floods in the last 10 years you might want to revisit your opinion................
News to me.

The largest extent fire in Australia’s recorded history were in the 1970’s. And the extent were only noted due to it being recorded via the new Landsat satellites.
For over 50,000 years Australians used to burn-off most of the place on a near annual basis so the fuel load were low. Nowadays thanks to modern farming practices and greeny stupidity we have less annual burn-offs that leave massive fuel loads to build up causing more intense fires when they inevitably happen. Nothing to do with ‘climate’ as such.

Reading the old news papers show the 1800’s as being the time of the ‘biggest’ floods. Though that predates television so do not exist in the minds of the climate cultists..

​​​​​…
.
.
​​​​​…
.
.

Flying Binghi is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2022, 17:36
  #49 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thankfully some of the head-in-the-sand opinions here are going the way of the dinosaur. There is no avoiding the evidence (real scientific evidence, not "my mate reckons") and whether you like it or not, the world is slowly abiding by the need to take action. Whether you agree with that doesn't matter one jot: frivolities such as airshows and motorsport don't register with the majority of mankind other than as unnecessary sources of stuff that contributes to a problem.

You stand a better chance at having a say if you engage rather than deny.
Pypard is offline  
Old 7th Nov 2022, 22:09
  #50 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,509
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Pypard View Post
Thankfully some of the head-in-the-sand opinions here are going the way of the dinosaur. There is no avoiding the evidence (real scientific evidence, not "my mate reckons") and whether you like it or not, the world is slowly abiding by the need to take action. Whether you agree with that doesn't matter one jot: frivolities such as airshows and motorsport don't register with the majority of mankind other than as unnecessary sources of stuff that contributes to a problem.

You stand a better chance at having a say if you engage rather than deny.
I spot a bot.. …or maybe not. Lets see…

One would think if yer didn’t consider what your mate reckons then yer marriage would be short..


Flying Binghi is offline  
Old 8th Nov 2022, 03:37
  #51 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Wherever I lay my hat
Posts: 3,493
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 1 Post
Airshow cancelled due to climate change? There's one in Bahrain next week - why not hop on a great big jet airplane and go to that one instead?
rudestuff is offline  
Old 8th Nov 2022, 10:23
  #52 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 5,438
Received 22 Likes on 12 Posts
lots of people fly from the NE of England to Dubai - especially in winter!
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 8th Nov 2022, 10:26
  #53 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 5,438
Received 22 Likes on 12 Posts
"News to me."

Perhaps this report from the CSIRO will help https://www.csiro.au/en/research/env...rt-at-a-Glance

"Australia’s climate has warmed on average by 1.44 ± 0.24 °C since national records began in 1910, leading to an increase in the frequency of extreme heat events.
  • There has been a decline of around 16 per cent in April to October rainfall in the southwest of Australia since 1970. Across the same region May–July rainfall has seen the largest decrease, by around 20 per cent since 1970.
  • In the southeast of Australia there has been a decline of around 12 per cent in April to October rainfall since the late 1990s.
  • There has been a decrease in streamflow at the majority of streamflow gauges across southern Australia since 1975.
  • Rainfall and streamflow have increased across parts of northern Australia since the 1970s.
  • There has been an increase in extreme fire weather, and in the length of the fire season, across large parts of the country since the 1950s, especially in southern Australia.There has been a decrease in the number of tropical cyclones observed in the Australian region since 1982.
  • Oceans around Australia are acidifying and have warmed by around 1 °C since 1910, contributing to longer and more frequent marine heatwaves.
  • Sea levels are rising around Australia, including more frequent extremes, that are increasing the risk of inundation and damage to coastal infrastructure and communities.
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 8th Nov 2022, 16:04
  #54 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2021
Location: Wiltshire
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Won't be long before someone comes along and tells us not to trust the science.
Pypard is offline  
Old 8th Nov 2022, 16:22
  #55 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 5,438
Received 22 Likes on 12 Posts
yes - it it often comes from people who fly and maintain machines that are totally dependent on advanced science
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 8th Nov 2022, 22:08
  #56 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,509
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
"News to me."

Perhaps this report from the CSIRO will help https://www.csiro.au/en/research/env...rt-at-a-Glance

"Australia’s climate has warmed on average by 1.44 ± 0.24 °C since national records began in 1910, leading to an increase in the frequency of extreme heat events.
  • There has been a decline of around 16 per cent in April to October rainfall in the southwest of Australia since 1970. Across the same region May–July rainfall has seen the largest decrease, by around 20 per cent since 1970.
  • In the southeast of Australia there has been a decline of around 12 per cent in April to October rainfall since the late 1990s.
  • There has been a decrease in streamflow at the majority of streamflow gauges across southern Australia since 1975.
  • Rainfall and streamflow have increased across parts of northern Australia since the 1970s.
  • There has been an increase in extreme fire weather, and in the length of the fire season, across large parts of the country since the 1950s, especially in southern Australia.There has been a decrease in the number of tropical cyclones observed in the Australian region since 1982.
  • Oceans around Australia are acidifying and have warmed by around 1 °C since 1910, contributing to longer and more frequent marine heatwaves.
  • Sea levels are rising around Australia, including more frequent extremes, that are increasing the risk of inundation and damage to coastal infrastructure and communities.
Hmmm… why the cut-off of 1910. In many areas of Australia the records began in the mid 1800’s ?


Via the Asturias56 post: “…climate has warmed on average by 1.44 ± 0.24 °C since national records began in 1910…”


What happened the year before 1910, …i.e., thats what happened in the warm period that preceded 1910…

“…The hottest day ever recorded in Australia with modern official equipment was Jan 3rd, 1909 in Bourke where the temperature blistered at 51.7C…”


https://joannenova.com.au/2020/07/ho...ourke-in-1909/


Events of recent years have totally dis-credited the other CSIRO claims. If someone were that stupid that they relied on the CSIRO for ‘guidance’, well, the CSIRO has an out for that:

Information at this site:
  • Is general information provided as part of CSIRO's statutory role in the dissemination of information relating to scientific and technical matters;
  • Is not professional, scientific, medical, technical or expert advice;
  • Is subject to the usual uncertainties of advanced scientific and technical research;
  • May not be accurate, current or complete;
  • Is subject to change without notice; and
  • Should never be relied on as the basis for doing or failing to do something.

https://www.csiro.au/en/about/Policies/Legal/Legal-notice



Flying Binghi is offline  
Old 9th Nov 2022, 08:43
  #57 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Ferrara
Posts: 5,438
Received 22 Likes on 12 Posts
well CSIRO are a better source than some guy you met in a bar or a US based website run by MAGA lunatics. And the get out clause only covers a 9 lines - by modern standards (check your car warranty) thats nuffin'.

" since national records began in 1910," = yes , there are records before 1910 but they're not standardised, the equipment was different, the observations were taken on different days at different times and sometimes not at all and there were very large areas where there were no records. I did a course years ago on weather observations and how careful you have to be to compare like with like. At one time local authorities in tourist towns in the UK used to place their daylight/sunshine kit on the highest point for miles to maximise the numbers so they could claim "we are the sunniest place in Dorset" etc. Oddly their rainfall gauges all seemed to be somewhat overhung by nearby buildings in a completely separate place.
Asturias56 is offline  
Old 9th Nov 2022, 09:04
  #58 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Northumberland
Posts: 7,101
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Maybe take the debate relating to climate change in Australia out of the Sunderland Airshow thread and into the relevant Jet Blast thread?

https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/505...ebate-138.html

SWBKCB is online now  
Old 9th Nov 2022, 09:17
  #59 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,509
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by SWBKCB View Post
Maybe take the debate relating to climate change in Australia out of the Sunderland Airshow thread and into the relevant Jet Blast thread?

https://www.pprune.org/jet-blast/505...ebate-138.html
Oh, I thought it were supposed to be a global event. Did I miss something ?..
Flying Binghi is offline  
Old 9th Nov 2022, 09:23
  #60 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,509
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes on 14 Posts
Originally Posted by Asturias56 View Post
well CSIRO are a better source than some guy you met in a bar or a US based website run by MAGA lunatics. And the get out clause only covers a 9 lines - by modern standards (check your car warranty) thats nuffin'.

" since national records began in 1910," = yes , there are records before 1910 but they're not standardised, the equipment was different, the observations were taken on different days at different times and sometimes not at all and there were very large areas where there were no records. I did a course years ago on weather observations and how careful you have to be to compare like with like. At one time local authorities in tourist towns in the UK used to place their daylight/sunshine kit on the highest point for miles to maximise the numbers so they could claim "we are the sunniest place in Dorset" etc. Oddly their rainfall gauges all seemed to be somewhat overhung by nearby buildings in a completely separate place.
…….

Asturia56, you sell used cars, don’t ya..


Have a re-read of the link I provided. It offers a fair amount of ‘illumination’ on the subject.


https://joannenova.com.au/2020/07/ho...ourke-in-1909/
Flying Binghi is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.