CAHC Closure - More Ac Losses?

[DHfan]

I'd wondered about that. As I recall, the former RAF St Mawgan is a huge site and I find it hard to believe that every part of it is let out to tenants.
If there isn't a tenant lined up that wants or needs that particular part of the site, why can't the Centre continue if it really is paying a commercial rent.

Conversely, the Heritaqe Centre is being extremely disingenous in publicising it the way they have, when they knew perfectly well it was a short term and potentially finite lease.

[Krystal n chips]

Originally Posted by DHfan

I'd wondered about that. As I recall, the former RAF St Mawgan is a huge site and I find it hard to believe that every part of it is let out to tenants.
If there isn't a tenant lined up that wants or needs that particular part of the site, why can't the Centre continue if it really is paying a commercial rent.

Conversely, the Heritaqe Centre is being extremely disingenous in publicising it the way they have, when they knew perfectly well it was a short term and potentially finite lease.

Maybe, with the above in mind, they thought, that, once established who is going to try and move us...but it does beg the question as to why they decided to acquire the exhibits and develop the site if they knew from the onset the lease would be potentially finite as you say...as always, it make you wonder what may have been going on behind the scenes and not being reported.

[POBJOY]

Newquay Airport is not such a 'huge site' as the former RAF St Mawgan which still operates the former camp area and a substantial parcel of land to the North.
There are several reasons for the museum being very difficult to sustain. It is a visitor attraction that has to compete with hundreds of others in a area that is unable to be sustained by the local (low) population, and has to rely on the summer trade which in reality is only 20% of the year. It is essentially an 'enthusiast' venue, which of course reduces its chance of income and has to try and promote itself in a very competitive market place. When you consider they are in the the same market as a visit to :- Lands End, St Ives, Eden Project, Flambards, National Trust locations, St Michaels Mount, Minac Theatre, plus a shed load of others, then the picture becomes clear. As to the One Eleven and VC10 Tanker, they have a dubious future unless someone decides to go down the 'food venue' route with them, (but where).

[DHfan]

The museum isn't suggesting it's not sustainable.

I can easily believe that it might not be, but there's no mention of it in their statement.

[POBJOY]

Sustainability

Originally Posted by DHfan

The museum isn't suggesting it's not sustainable.

I can easily believe that it might not be, but there's no mention of it in their statement.

If you choose to have an operation based at a Civil Airport (as opposed to a disused airfield) the costs are always going to be against you for obvious reasons. When the CAF honeymoon period finished (that hangar is now a non aviation store) it also lost a large part of its attraction value which was not helped by having to relocate to a less accessible site that also is inside an airport security area. OK if the costs are nil to low, but in todays world where a Council is tasked to cover costs with (any income) storage space on an airfield becomes a valuable asset in difficult times. The actual costs of running a licenced Airport are eye watering, and just the security, fire service, and ATC make it almost impossible to recover the charges from the travelling public, and that is before you have to enough money to pay for the Radar, Runway, and ILS ongoing costs. Cornwall Council (like many others) have to balance the books to provide essential services, and even leisure/fitness centre's were under threat for a while.

[DHfan]

It's only other people, like you, suggesting the museum isn't sustainable.

The Heritage Centre itself seems perfectly happy to continue.
I had forgotten it had had to move.

[Jhieminga]

Originally Posted by Krystal n chips

Maybe, with the above in mind, they thought, that, once established who is going to try and move us...but it does beg the question as to why they decided to acquire the exhibits and develop the site if they knew from the onset the lease would be potentially finite as you say...as always, it make you wonder what may have been going on behind the scenes and not being reported.

Keep in mind that it wasn't CAHC that decided to set up a museum in Cornwall, it was Mike Collet's Classic Air Force. CAHC was set up to salvage what CAF's departure left behind. At that time a short-term lease on a less-than-ideal location was the only thing available, so they took it.

CAHC has been discussing the options with the council for quite some time, but have been running up against a wall there. I think that's why they took this step of involving the public.

[DHfan]

There were no flies on Mike Collet so I've never really understood why he decided it was a good idea to move a good proportion of his aeroplanes, and buy a couple more, to Cornwall for what turned out to be a very short period.
It was no secret that the rent on the huge hangar was colossal, after the initial period of grace, so somebody, presumably, must have done the costings and thought it could work.

[POBJOY]

Reality rules OK

Originally Posted by DHfan

There were no flies on Mike Collet so I've never really understood why he decided it was a good idea to move a good proportion of his aeroplanes, and buy a couple more, to Cornwall for what turned out to be a very short period.
It was no secret that the rent on the huge hangar was colossal, after the initial period of grace, so somebody, presumably, must have done the costings and thought it could work.

Those of us who work in the area knew only too well that once someone had to pay for facilities it would fail that test.
It is quite obvious that they ignored the basics of 'business' in that you have to have a regular customer base, plus enough 'enthusiast's prepared to spend money.
I spoke to them early in the venture, and explained that the visitor trade in Cornwall was a very fragile beast that required lots of constant advertising to obtain a slice of the action. Without a budget that could compete with well organised other attractions they simply never could break in to the market which has a very short season.
It was no surprise that they departed when they did, and in fact the Council gave a lot of assistance to try to help the remaining operation to survive.
With no substantial core/regular trade the operation was never going to be able to afford the real ongoing costs, and that was well before Covid hit.
However on a brighter note, looking at Google map to the area north of the present location is a substantial parcel of land (INC MOD) part of which gets used for commercial ventures when required (Boardmasters). I note that the old RAF radar site is by a public road and well supplied with areas of hardstanding and is devoid of use. Perhaps there is a glimmer of hope in that direction !!!

[DHfan]

Yet again you're saying they were never going to be able to afford the ongoing costs.

The Heritage Centre doesn't mention that, only you do.

All they are saying is they're being "evicted" from their current location, nothing about overheads, income or running costs.
As it was known to be a short term lease that should have come as no surprise.

[POBJOY]

its all about costs

Originally Posted by DHfan

Yet again you're saying they were never going to be able to afford the ongoing costs.

The Heritage Centre doesn't mention that, only you do.

All they are saying is they're being "evicted" from their current location, nothing about overheads, income or running costs.
As it was known to be a short term lease that should have come as no surprise.

I think you will find they 'could not agree on the terms for another lease' which in effect meant that the potential income would not meet the future costs. Cornwall Council are obliged to operate the Airport for the benefit of the Cornwall ratepayers and reduce its operating costs. This has been a well known scenario brewing for some time and to be fair CC have been trying to assist with the situation (at the same time acting within their remit of being a responsible provider of essential services to the area). CAHC are not being suddenly 'evicted' but like many other operations are unable to fund what they would need to stay where they are. The local airline 'Skybus' which had an engineering 'out base' at the Airport has also had to reduce its costs and moved back to Lands End although they continue to 'route' via NQY for the IOS service. No one is pleased that these situations arise, but in difficult financial times it is a basic fact that the local authority has to operate for the benefit of its ratepayers who are the 'funders' for its location. If you choose to base yourself at a licenced civil airport then that is never going to be an economical option, especially when there is limited trade for most of the year. The original CAF soon hot footed back North when faced with the true costs of being there.

Stop Press CC have just issued a statement re the above situation which rather confirms the above scenario. PP

[DHfan]

So, contrary to their statement, they weren't prepared to pay commercial rents?

[WB627]

So are Cornwall Council likely to fill all the commercial space on the airport? I would doubt it. So it looks to me like no income is better than some income form the museum. Which of course makes perfect sense.... not! And where is the Heritage factor in all this?

There must be somewhere they can go on that site?

[SWBKCB]

Stop Press CC have just issued a statement re the above situation which rather confirms the above scenario. PP

I've not been able to find anything?

[POBJOY]

Originally Posted by DHfan

So, contrary to their statement, they weren't prepared to pay commercial rents?

Thats about it, which is why the CAF departed when faced with reality. The 'museum' aspect was given much assistance to help them establish themselves, but they were in a poor location for visitor attendance, and also still inside the Airport security zone. Cornwall simply does not have enough local population to support such ventures, and the very short visitor season is well over supplied with venues to attend. I am a frequent critic of the Council over various matters, but in this case they were as helpful as they could have been.

[POBJOY]

council response

Originally Posted by SWBKCB

I've not been able to find anything?

This may take a few days to get out in the normal public domain.

[POBJOY]

Relocation !!!

There must be somewhere they can go on that site?[/QUOTE]

As alluded in an earlier post there is a vast amount of land adjoining the Civil Airport and not in its security zone that was part of the original Trebelsue RAF site and latterly a NATO operation. I notice that the original RAF Radar tower (plus buildings) are situated close to a public road and near land used by Boardmasters when required. I suspect the MOD are still the owners and the area even still has its original 'crash gate'. If CAHC are serious about their operation, then it must be worthwhile a consideration rather than closing !!!!

[Jhieminga]

A quote from the CAHC's Facebook page:

What the Council have not stated in there formal response is that they have failed to provide any detailed feedback on the 9 proposals that CAHC submitted 10 months ago. In fact, they have not responded to any communication until recently.
Also, not one decision maker from the airport or the council have ever visited our site to try and understand what facility we provide to our visitors.
We need just 1% of the total area of the airport estate to operate and await any constructive communication from the council and airport management.

Posted on this same page just this morning:

Please sign & share our petition link.
https://chng.it/DRwW5Lj65M
We remain hopeful that Cornwall Council and Cornwall Airport Newquay will finally allow us to discuss our relocation proposals in detail, 11 months after we submitted them. Our aim is to find only 6 acres on the 850 acre airport estate which will allow us to continue our operation without disrupting airfield operations.

[DHfan]

Originally Posted by DHfan

I should be fairly close to St Mawgan in the next few weeks so I'll make a point of visiting, having not been there since it first opened, briefly, as Air Atlantique.

So much for my good intentions...
I'll be passing on my way to and from Penzance this Saturday and the following one.
They're closed Fridays and Saturdays.

I appreciate they are change-over days for many holiday makers so visitors may be thin on the ground, but I would have thought some income was better than none.

[treadigraph]

Give my love to PZ!