British Airways TriStar 500.
Certainly true. We had a family friend who was a Flight Engineer on the Ba VC10 fleet who transferred to the Tristar circa 1979. However in the 1978 book "Facts about an airline" by Alan Road Published 1978 their is a feature following a Ba 1011 Trip to Nice in G-BBAE. The technical crew composition was a Captain (Doug Lee) and Two Senior First Officers (David Reed and Richard Poad).
It seems European division carried across the Three pilot operation from the Trident for the first few years of the widebody operation.
It seems European division carried across the Three pilot operation from the Trident for the first few years of the widebody operation.
My time on Tristar tech instructing all incorporated F/Es. A number of my previous Brize mates turned up and some of those ultimately took the opportunity to cross-over when BA offered their 'cadet' scheme.
My first Tristar trip,
I managed to get on the BA Tristar ('BBAI) next morning where I was invited to occupy the jump seat with its HUGE picture window.
5 years later on 'BBAI once again I was sent O/I Heathrow - Larnaca, once again enjoying that superb view however on return, as we shut down on stand, the flight deck door opened and the purser came in carrying 4 glasses into which he'd put a single (airline) bottle of whisky and topped it up with champagne (?) (at least that's what it was called).
I managed to get on the BA Tristar ('BBAI) next morning where I was invited to occupy the jump seat with its HUGE picture window.
5 years later on 'BBAI once again I was sent O/I Heathrow - Larnaca, once again enjoying that superb view however on return, as we shut down on stand, the flight deck door opened and the purser came in carrying 4 glasses into which he'd put a single (airline) bottle of whisky and topped it up with champagne (?) (at least that's what it was called).
The LCA was a Night Stop iirc...
Some nice night stops back then - such as LCA ATH IST TLV CAI
That's an interesting thought. Wasn't the 747's introduction delayed by industrial action, partially because of a demand from the F/E side? I cannot find the details right now.
I didn't record chock tmes but flying times were 3hr 40min outbound and 4hr 20min for the return.
rog747, On the BOAC Britannia fleet they were called 'Brake Dwell Cocktails'.
jelle, In the UK, the introduction of the 747 was delayed by a dispute between BOAC and the pilots, so far as I know the engineers were not involved. I don't know about what happened in the US. But I would have thought that the handling of the engines and the complexity of the systems panel would have required a flight engineer from the very start.
jelle, In the UK, the introduction of the 747 was delayed by a dispute between BOAC and the pilots, so far as I know the engineers were not involved. I don't know about what happened in the US. But I would have thought that the handling of the engines and the complexity of the systems panel would have required a flight engineer from the very start.
The BOAC 47 introduction delay was due to a pilot's dispute over their claim for 'wide body' pay increases ... one of the 'leading lights' being the 'Chingford Skinhead' ! The immediate result was the sight of delivered 74s with their engines replaced by concrete blocks
N4790P
The BOAC 47 introduction delay was due to a pilot's dispute over their claim for 'wide body' pay increases ... one of the 'leading lights' being the 'Chingford Skinhead' ! The immediate result was the sight of delivered 74s with their engines replaced by concrete blocks
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The BOAC 47 introduction delay was due to a pilot's dispute over their claim for 'wide body' pay increases ... one of the 'leading lights' being the 'Chingford Skinhead' ! The immediate result was the sight of delivered 74s with their engines replaced by concrete blocks
I seem to recall that the engines were profitably leased out to other operators, the JT9D not being terribly reliable in those early years.
I seem to recall that the engines were profitably leased out to other operators, the JT9D not being terribly reliable in those early years.
Out of interest to which airline/airlines did they lase the engines to ?
N4790P
jelle, In the UK, the introduction of the 747 was delayed by a dispute between BOAC and the pilots, so far as I know the engineers were not involved. I don't know about what happened in the US. But I would have thought that the handling of the engines and the complexity of the systems panel would have required a flight engineer from the very start.
With most of BOAC’s industrial relations problems now behind it, the first scheduled service – set for April 18, 1971 – was cancelled just an hour before departure, as a continuing dispute with a different union meant that no flight engineer reported for duty.The inaugural journey eventually departed a week later using G-AWNF (c/n 19766), which took off at 12:03pm from London/Heathrow bound for New York.
We're straying off course a bit...
That's an incredible fact, wow! The management must have known that the dispute would drag on for a period of time to be able to consider leasing out the new engines. Considering the prestige of having these game-changing aircraft in your fleet and not being able to use them must have been a big upset to BOAC and their First and Business class passengers.
Out of interest to which airline/airlines did they lase the engines to ?
Out of interest to which airline/airlines did they lase the engines to ?
The JT9D were in short supply because the early engines had a significant failure rate, and P&W could not keep up with overhauls.
I believe the aircraft had not yet been delivered to the UK. I visited Everett at the time and the new BOAC 747 fleet were lined up with concrete blocks hanging from the engine pylons, to maintain the structural loading.
The JT9D were in short supply because the early engines had a significant failure rate, and P&W could not keep up with overhauls.
The JT9D were in short supply because the early engines had a significant failure rate, and P&W could not keep up with overhauls.
N4790P
I believe the aircraft had not yet been delivered to the UK. I visited Everett at the time and the new BOAC 747 fleet were lined up with concrete blocks hanging from the engine pylons, to maintain the structural loading.
The JT9D were in short supply because the early engines had a significant failure rate, and P&W could not keep up with overhauls.
The JT9D were in short supply because the early engines had a significant failure rate, and P&W could not keep up with overhauls.
Before my time, but yes - the BOAC history books confirm that the first three aircraft had been delivered to Heathrow; BOAC was unable to put them into service due to an industrial dispute with BALPA about the pay differentials between the new 747 and other fleets; and a significant relief to the losses was achieved by leasing out the engines to US airlines suffering with early reliability problems. No mention of a flight engineers' dimension to the dispute.
The 47 engine problems were (from memory) due to tip clearances causing seizures .. the instantaneous nature of which caused the support pins to act as designed ...and break ! Engine and aircraft then parted company., one such occuring near to Paris This led to the apocryphal story of the conversation between the 47 skipper and a Comet similar 'discussing' their aircraft. The 47 man declared that 'pylon' engine mounts were superior, to which the Comet man replied "perhaps, but we bury our engines in the wing roots ... you bury yours in France!" ...