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BAC 1-11 Holiday Jets

Old 31st May 2021, 13:42
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, you had a minimum amount to be carried and normally a reserve so that if you had an RTO or diversion on route then you weren’t stuck without it. It was quite a lot - must have been 250-300 kgs.

I don’t remember any more black smoke than the usual ! I do recall standing sufficiently close behind a 1-11 as the throttles were opened up as the aircraft turned to line up on its take-off roll to be soaked by a jet of water though. Quite often happened if you watched carefully at the start of the roll.
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Old 31st May 2021, 13:54
  #22 (permalink)  
 
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"I never saw a system anywhere for doing the pumping of the water from barrel to aircraft by anything other than hand-pump and it was an absolute sod of a job."
A very few, possibly only one, of the BIA aircraft had a portable electric pump that plugged into a socket in the forward hold. Naturally, they or it were the F/O's favourite aircraft.
It might be apocryphal but after the Monarch 1-11 wheels up at STN the aircraft was repaired and returned to service. On the first trip the F/O was duly despatched to pump in the demin water but returned to the flight deck to say he couldn't find the filling point. The captain, muttering something on the lines of 'stupid boy', went down and couldn't find it either. It turned out that the repairers had skinned it over. Much recalculation to see whether they could get out dry.
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Old 31st May 2021, 14:10
  #23 (permalink)  
 
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My last flights in the BAC 1-11 were with Dan Air between LGW and MXP, which was then a deserted backwater near the Swiss border. They were used on IT charters to supply skiers in winter and hikers/culture vultures in summer. I can't remember which model they were, but the loads had to be carefully monitored and after takeoff from MXP we had to do 2 or 3 climbing circuits to be able to reach a safe level to traverse the Alps. I used these cheap grey market flights for several years, way cheaper than the BA/Alitalia LIN-LHR monopoly. I think the last flight was in 1992, was this one of the last 1-11 flights/routes in Europe ? There can't have been too many left by then.

For all it's reputation of being seriously noisy on the outside, the flights were pretty quiet and smooth inside the cabin.
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Old 31st May 2021, 15:41
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
Yes they did, the tour operator was Vistajet, and the aircraft were based at one each of Luton, Birmingham and Manchester. Hope I'm right - have no notes, this had all been going round inside my skull for the last 51 years !

Didn't work out, they then put them on schedules like E Midlands to Glasgow, but that was even less worthwhile, so they were leased out. After some leasing out to Court Line all three were sold to Transbrasil. They all came back to the UK eventually and operated under their original registrations. The end of the IT flights must have been a financial issue, the next year Vistajet was reported working with old Air Spain (ex-Eastern of the USA) DC8s.
Yes all indeed quite correct with VistaJet. My first job lol (looking after Air Spain)
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Old 31st May 2021, 16:34
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My last-ish BAC 1-11 flights were on DAN AIR's G-TARO, a night ATH-LGW leaving about 03.30L from the hot and sweaty pure chaos that was the old ATH International Terminal -
TARO slogged through the night and took around 4M 45M flying time.
Stupidly I chose this one as there were loads of empty seats, although I had a choice of about 6 flights to get home on (Standby Staff Travel) including a MON 757 and 2 DA 727's that all left after us, but then proceeded to overtake us over Europe! I was fuming.

I then did BIA 1-11 500 LGW-IBZ-LGW for a week's Hol, seat only for £35 return!
Catering was a sausage roll and a fruit tart - (Did it still have seat back catering??)

My very last flights I recall, was a few years later, in Summer 1991 I think, which was again a DAN AIR 1-11 500 both ways, LGW-Montpellier-LGW using their Scheduled Service to visit a pal's remote old stone country cottage in the pretty Hérault region in Languedoc-Roussillon. It was so hot, but there was a lake and a river close by for swimming.
Mostly second homers and holidaymakers on-board.
Very nice drinks and hot meal service that Dan Air Scheduled became famous for, but sadly all rather too late to save them...

My first 1-11 flights were British Eagle 1-11's LHR to Venice, and Djerba, when we stopped in Tunis on the way back to pick up some more pax.
I've got all the 1-11's names that we flew on somewhere.
SWIFT and SERENE were the 207's -- SURE STALWART SUPREME SPUR SALUTE were the 301/304's
Then -
Channel AW from SEN to Gerona on G-AVGP
Later on was Laker, BUA, Autair, and Dan Air 1-11's to Palma, BCN and IBZ, respectively out of LGW & LTN (G-AZED was one of them)
Caledonian in 1970 LGW to Palma on G-AWWX Flagship Isle of Skye, and the following year LGW to NAP as Caledonian//BUA, came back on G-AXYD.
1972 saw BCAL an aircraft short due to G-AWYS, so our LGW-DBV-LGW was subbed to a yellow Northeast Trident on the way out, and amazingly we got the Wardair 727 on the way home 2 weeks later.
Took my Mum to Majorca for a £10 all-in 3 night Holiday in Feb 1973 and the outbound 1-11 was G-AWYS!

Started then to fly on Court Line and managed all the 4 colours! (Lilac was the best) and on one of the leased BMA hybrids.






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Old 31st May 2021, 18:05
  #26 (permalink)  
 
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I always found the 1-11 a delight from a passenger's perspective, but then again never ended up in the seats right at the back near the engines!

The BUA and then BCal crews had a fine use for the ventral airstair - on flights back from Freetown via Las Palmas to Gatwick, they'd bring back prawns, shellfish and other local catch from Sierra Leone. Once doors were closed at Freetown, you'd put the boxes out on the retracted ventral airstair and it froze the seafood marvellously until you landed back at Gatwick. Handlers at Las Palmas had to be instructed that the rear airstairs were not to be opened or used otherwise a consignment of prawns would be dumped on the ramp during the turnround!

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Old 31st May 2021, 18:49
  #27 (permalink)  
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The SOAF 1-11 srs 485GDs had the power point for an electric pump to fill the water injection tank. I don't recall ever using it.
The normal procedure on take off was to use water injection if required and then at power reduction (1500ft.) select dump to discharge the remaining water in the tank overboard as it would freeze if left in the tank. I think if the flight was less than 1 hour the water could be carried to the next stop.
There was a mod available to fit a heater in the water tank but the SOAF aircraft didn't have in my time there. (76 - 79).
The water tank held 110 imp. gallons IIRC, that would last about 3 mins on take off or 5 mins with an engine failure.
I worked out the flow rates years ago and there was nearly as much water going into the engine as fuel.

Last edited by dixi188; 31st May 2021 at 19:04.
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Old 31st May 2021, 19:13
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I think the only One-Elevens built with Seatback catering were for Court Line. When they went under these aircraft went different ways, a number went to Dan-Air, who continued the concept. Did anyone else ?

First ever jet flight was a British Eagle One-Eleven, Liverpool to London, off the old short runway. G-ATPI "Supreme". Visiting aunt was returning home to Canada, it was school hols, she says to aviation-interested teenage nephew "would you like to come with me on the initial hop to London, coming home on the train ?". No need to ask twice. Pretty thin load; Eagle went under a couple of months later.

And last One-Eleven, 1993, BA Birmingham to Edinburgh, in their final weeks. I knew it was, and had sort of arranged an oddball sector to get it. Notable was the condition of the cabin inside. It was immaculate ! No trace of anything faded, worn or uncleaned. Seat fabric completely unfrayed. Well done Birmingham maintenance.
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Old 31st May 2021, 19:57
  #29 (permalink)  
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My half dozen One-Eleven flights were all with Dan-Air - first up to Aberdeen, last back from Paris. Nice aeroplane and a great airline.
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Old 31st May 2021, 20:26
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Last flight for me was in March 1998. Air Bristol used them on the Airbus charter from Filton to Toulouse. Was really good service. They were replaced that year by Jersey 146 aircraft. There were quite a number parked at Filton around then
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Old 31st May 2021, 20:46
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I haven't got much experience to add. I've only flown on one 1-11. YU-ANS to Ljubljana and back from Leeds Bradford in July 1987. The cabin crew on the outbound flight couldn't close the door at the ventral airstair so the skipper had to come out and do it! To be fair, they were probably more used to DC9 doors. There was one table with club seats and passengers smoking as soon as they were allowed.

I don't know what seat back catering is. Heard the expression lots of times but still clueless, except that it appears to have been exclusive to the 1-11.
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Old 31st May 2021, 21:04
  #32 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Mooncrest View Post
I don't know what seat back catering is. Heard the expression lots of times but still clueless, except that it appears to have been exclusive to the 1-11.
It was a concept of Court Line. They dispensed with the galley and catering storage, which allowed five (maybe 10) extra seats. The seats were custom-designed by Rumbold. They had two compartments in the upper half of the seatback which the passenger behind faced, and two prepackaged "meals" were put in there. One the passenger could open when they wanted, the other was "securely" (see below) locked, because that was the meal for the return sector. All was loaded at Luton before the pax boarded. On turnround at the Med airport the packaging was disposed and the lower compartmment unlocked. I believe (because I never experienced it) that the food packs included a slug of dry ice underneath to keep cool.

Definitely something from the "seemed like a good idea at the time" camp. Children of course would wolf down the food before boarding was even complete and then grizzle an hour later that they were hungry, or take their neighbours before they arrived. But the biggest problem was the locked return compartment was too readily opened by a nailfile, car key, etc, and the return catering eaten, only to be discovered on the turnround. There were apparently some spares loaded, but once one saw what to do it could spread like wildfire down the cabin, and the spares were not enough.

The DC-10 in economy, with the supplementary oxygen compartment in the seatback in front of you rather than in a drop-down always reminded me of this.
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Old 31st May 2021, 21:10
  #33 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by WHBM View Post
It was a concept of Court Line. They dispensed with the galley and catering storage, which allowed five (maybe 10) extra seats. The seats were custom-designed by Rumbold. They had two compartments in the upper half of the seatback which the passenger behind faced, and two prepackaged "meals" were put in there. One the passenger could open when they wanted, the other was "securely" (see below) locked, because that was the meal for the return sector. All was loaded at Luton before the pax boarded. On turnround at the Med airport the packaging was disposed and the lower compartmment unlocked. I believe (because I never experienced it) that the food packs included a slug of dry ice underneath to keep cool.

Definitely something from the "seemed like a good idea at the time" camp. Children of course would wolf down the food before boarding was even complete and then grizzle an hour later that they were hungry, or take their neighbours before they arrived. But the biggest problem was the locked return compartment was too readily opened by a nailfile, car key, etc, and the return catering eaten, only to be discovered on the turnround. There were apparently some spares loaded, but once one saw what to do it could spread like wildfire down the cabin, and the spares were not enough.

The DC-10 in economy, with the supplementary oxygen compartment in the seatback in front of you rather than in a drop-down always reminded me of this.
Thankyou WHBM. Another example of an airline going to extraordinary lengths to get more seats in.
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Old 31st May 2021, 21:25
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ID90 with Ryanair GLA DUB GLA pre B737 days
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Old 31st May 2021, 23:38
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Having mentioned Court Line, and their impressive colour liveries (I always thought far more stylish than Braniff's colours on their fleet, which to me looked rather simplistically applied), I did read an account of their development.

Apparently there was a 1970 meeting at the Hurn plant to discuss the detail of the application. On one side was the senior BAC paint shop foreman, probably in brown coat and likely onetime RAF WW2 maintenance. On the other side were the design team who did the Court Line new colours (not just aircraft, it applied across the business). They drove down from their Soho, London offices in a multi-coloured custom-painted Mini, and came in wearing Afghan coats that were in fashion that year. BAC sales, probably in suits, completed the total mismatch of appearence and lifestyles. The paint shop foreman's comments afterwards must have been a hoot. Despite which they did a brilliant job of the application.
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Old 1st Jun 2021, 02:38
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SAS and Swissair had 1-11's with there markings
Maybe the Gulf air ones got up to ATH
Air Uk
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Old 1st Jun 2021, 06:45
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Originally Posted by Clueless In CLK View Post
SAS and Swissair had 1-11's with there markings
Both SAS and Swissair had early aircraft leased from British Eagle in 1967-8. This was when Douglas had got into a mess with their deliveries of new DC-9s, and they covered the cost of it all. I'm sure there was a very thorough paint job both before and after when someone else was paying !

Sabena had several aircraft in their colours in the mid-1990s, leased from both European and British World.
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Old 1st Jun 2021, 08:33
  #38 (permalink)  
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The Court Line aircraft had 119 seats with back to back seats by the overwing exits to speed evacuation.
I witnessed the evac test in the flight shed at Hurn. I volunteered to be a pax but there were too many people so I just watched.
Each pax had a numbered vest and was told which exit to use.
It took 3 attempts to get everyone out in the required 90 seconds with the allocated exit being changed for some.
All young, fit apprentices and the like, so not very realistic, but the test was passed.
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Old 1st Jun 2021, 09:52
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When Gulf Aviation, later Gulf Air got its first BAC 1-11, it was decided to organise a spectacular introduction to the region's great and good; ruling families, senior merchants, Expat managers, oil company execs, you know the score..

The plan was to visit most of the Gulf States in a circular trip in the morning, and then another round trip, in reverse order, in the afternoon.

A full load of guests would embark in each place and disembark at the next, where a superb lunch would be served to them.

And then, replete and full of goodwill for Gulf Aviation, they would be taken back to where they started on the afternoon round trip.

It all went beautifully in the morning, and about 500 guests settled down to enjoy the magnificent spread. Alan Bodger was with the Bahraini party, including all Directors, anxiously watching the expense build up.

And then the BAC 1-11 did what all BAC 1-11s did when you least wanted it to happen, and broke down in Bahrain after completing the morning operation. There was only the one.

The recovery operation, using F27s, did little to restore Gulf Aviation's prestige, not great in the first place. I always felt that the day contributed to the later creation of Emirates.
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Old 1st Jun 2021, 12:06
  #40 (permalink)  
 
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I spent many hours in the back of the 1-11's in the late 70's and 80's with BA doing Aberdeen to Birmingham or LHR.
I'm sorry to rain on your parade but I felt cheated on a 1-11, I preferred the Trident 3 as a kid.....sorry
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