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RAF VC-10 in-flight reverse thrust use.

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RAF VC-10 in-flight reverse thrust use.

Old 20th May 2021, 20:01
  #21 (permalink)  
 
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VC10 ACM Flying 2-7 page 4 para 36

"Reverse thrust must only be used on the ground"
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Old 20th May 2021, 21:59
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Originally Posted by Waddo Liney View Post
Thank you everyone for your timely comments - I didn't except so many. So, the consensus appears to be that the VC-10 did not use reverse thrust in flight and that the noise and vibration I experienced was due the spoilers being deployed.

Absolutely, those spoilers seemed more like airbrakes - producing an impressive rate of descent. BOAC VC-10s seemed to use spoilers a lot when descending to some Middle Eastern & East African airports, possibly because of airspace restrictions due to unrest and recent conflicts. (This was in the late Sixties and early Seventies) As you say, quite a lot of vibration and noise associated. The only aircraft in which I flew which was allowed to select reverse thrust while airborne was the DH/HS Trident - Mk1 I think. Quite a different and distinctive noise, from the engines.
Coming in to shortish runways - like Aberdeen's Dyce - you'd sometimes hear reverse thrust being selected on short finals, That generally meant no go around option. I believe one Trident did slightly over-run onto the grass at Dyce as a result.
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Old 20th May 2021, 22:39
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An RAF VC10 was in a descent once and the crew decided to reduce the descent rate by applying thrust....which made things worse. Then an orange reverser unlocked light came on!

It seems that a failed linkage of some sort had caused a reverser to deploy and the only solution was to shut down the offending engine.

Taxying out once I did the normal reverser check (correctly, not that stupid show off way..) and it didn't feel right. So I canned the trip and had it investigated. I went up on the safety raiser with one of the sooties who showed that the linkage had indeed come apart and would not have worked correctly.

Last edited by BEagle; 20th May 2021 at 22:49.
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Old 21st May 2021, 15:52
  #24 (permalink)  
 
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I think it was the Lear 45 that wasn't allowed on the UK register for a while because if one deployed on that you had a second before it had itself inverted.

Edit, found it

We used to train this in the sim on the Lear 45. The thrust lever automatically snapped to idle if the reverser deployed and we were trained immediately to shut the engine down.

The aircraft was marginally controllable and between stick shaker and V2 until you shut it down. You could just about attain a positive rate. One wily TRE also trained knowing the location of and instinctively pulling the deploy CB (4th back on the bottom row since you ask ) as a backup.

It was a good sim exercise, but it was seriously demanding even if you were in "sim" mode, and over beers we wondered whether it would be survivable if it happened for real.
Uncommanded thrust reverser deployment in flight
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Old 31st May 2021, 07:45
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Bit of thread drift as not VC10 . Tridents 1/2/1e/3s , all could use reverse in the air . Memory say max 10,000 HP rpm on the outers , ie eng 1 and 3 . We used it regularly , though rev and or speedbrake in normal use was judged to be a poorly planned/executed approach .
Though if Wx , ATC , or fun dictated was a normal op. Have forgotten minimum ht. of cancelling rev.
Positioning an empty a/c with no.2 at idle , VMO of 365 , speedbrake [ airbrake ] out and 10,000 rev on outers . Descent rates of in excess of 17000 fpm were seen.
For precision landings , or short runways [ old EDI or ABZ , specially if ILS flown {only 1 ILS then } in a max tailwind ] , or fun [ practice really ] again.... Call from Handling Pilot to Non Handling Pilot [ throttle handler , as HP could not comfortably reach throttles and stick ] was '' Power Off , 10,000 Reverse '' , if judged correctly it cushioned the touchdown nicely , got retardation in early before brakes and airbrake were used .
Don't remember any restriction on a G/A from that position , and like an Autoland G/A , the runway may be touched in it's execution .
Only later on Boeings when reverse in , then No G/A to be carried out .
Yes the cabbage fields at ABZ and EDI were regularly visited , but not by those who pulled emergency reverse [ 12000 HP RPM ] early , and kept it in to a stop .

rgds condor.
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Old 31st May 2021, 09:17
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Originally Posted by condor17 View Post
Yes the cabbage fields at ABZ and EDI were regularly visited , but not by those who pulled emergency reverse [ 12000 HP RPM ] early , and kept it in to a stop.
Other than the well-publicised (aquaplaning) T3 overrun at ABZ in 1978, I don't recall any runway excursions by Tridents at either of those airports.
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Old 31st May 2021, 13:51
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Certainly there was one at EDI in my time b4 the runway was extended. Late mate finished with the nose over the sea wall in Gib with emergency reverse still on. Skipper reached over and gently eased his hand and the levers forward it’s all right Les, we’ve stopped .

Last edited by blind pew; 31st May 2021 at 20:29.
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Old 31st May 2021, 19:10
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There was an old TV cops series, (Softly, Softly, maybe), that had a clip in the opening credits of a Trident landing at GIB and you could see the reverse thrust smoke from the cascades before touchdown.
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Old 2nd Jun 2021, 19:33
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Dave R , they were mostly least said soonest mended , and EDI woulld have been the old 13/31.
B P , if that was the late great Les B , hope he had his 'hairy hand' on those reversers . .
Dixi , would always have been reverse in the flare at GIB .

rgds dave f.
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Old 2nd Jun 2021, 21:02
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Originally Posted by condor17 View Post
Dave R , they were mostly least said soonest mended , and EDI would have been the old 13/31.
An overrun on the old 31 would have put the aircraft on the main A9 Edinburgh-Stirling road. That would have been fairly difficult to hush up ...
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Old 3rd Jun 2021, 20:43
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DR , mainly 13 if memory serves , and T3s to boot . Much heavier that T1/2s , wth same retardation devices ... brakes , spoilers , reversers .

rgds condor .
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Old 3rd Jun 2021, 20:49
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ABZ Rwy 17 was the only one with an ILS . So with the 'Haar' in , was the only one with an high probability of landing of the available instrument approach .... Thus often a tailwind , and within limits as 'reported' by ATC [ thanks guys for creatability ] ....Thus emergency reverse to a stop .
EDI may have been the same , but was a T3 route thus as a T1/2 boy didn't see it until Shuttle started with the opening of RWY 25/07 .

rgds condor .
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Old 22nd Jun 2021, 09:47
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Flew RAF VC10s and also the Oman RF one too, totaling about 3,000 hrs on the type and NEVER ever used reverse thrust in the air. If speed were reduced below the gear limit, (my fading memory recalls this being 254 kts) one could always lower the gear and with flap the aircraft would go down like a lift.
Even when the speedbrakes (spoilers) were deployed normally there was a degree of airframe vibration which occurred and I would suspect that accounted for the vibration referred to by the instigator of this thread. Until about the mid 1980s it was common for the operating pilot doing a pa to the pax at 'top of drop' and mention that if a quickish descent were required because they had been held high by ATC, then the speedbrakes would be deployed and that they would experience this vibration which was completely normal and nothing to worry about. In time this mention on the pa was skipped as many of the pax were 'frequent flyers' and knew about it
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Old 1st Jul 2021, 21:20
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Statute of Limitations, I reverse taxied a vc10 at Victoria BC.
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Old 23rd Aug 2021, 11:46
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Originally Posted by Top West 50 View Post
Statute of Limitations, I reverse taxied a vc10 at Victoria BC.
Interesting, very rare too see such a beast there.
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Old 24th Aug 2021, 12:47
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Originally Posted by Top West 50 View Post
Statute of Limitations, I reverse taxied a vc10 at Victoria BC.
All is forgiven! Now let's have the full story...
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Old 9th Sep 2021, 21:24
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Originally Posted by Jhieminga View Post
All is forgiven! Now let's have the full story...
it was either back into that parking space or wait until we find a tug to tow you to the other side of the airfield. To head off a crew mutiny, I decided to do it. It was uneventful - just keep the feet off the brakes!
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Old 9th Sep 2021, 21:32
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Originally Posted by Jhieminga View Post
All is forgiven! Now let's have the full story...
it was either back into that parking space or wait until we find a tug to tow you to the other side of the airfield. To head off a crew mutiny, I decided to do it. It was uneventful - just keep the feet off the brakes!
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Old 10th Sep 2021, 18:47
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Thanks! Waiting for a tug can take a long time, and it seems even longer if you've got the solution right there...
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Old 10th Sep 2021, 19:47
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Had to reverse out of Civil Airport gates in the United States when on RAF Britannias two times for the lack of a correct tow bar. Feet off brakes!!!
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