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Old 20th Sep 2018, 18:42
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Being cynical, I thought it might be to help the bad guys' aim! It somewhat spoils the whole camouflage idea.

What I have always found strange about the "white cockpit roof" mod is that other air forces did not follow suit. For example, US aircraft in Vietnam, operating in a very hot climate, were camouflaged all over, in darker colours, which would absorb more heat than the RAF's desert camouflage.

Does anyone know the history of this idea?
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Old 20th Sep 2018, 20:21
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Caption says it all. I have mislaid the detail that was stored on the back.
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Old 20th Sep 2018, 22:42
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Flypast was I think for the withdrawl of Ansons from RAF service to be replaced by Bassets.
RAF Devons had a white top to the cockpit whereas civil Doves didn't.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 07:13
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
Flypast was I think for the withdrawl of Ansons from RAF service to be replaced by Bassets.
Yes, it took place on 28th June 1968.

According to this source

Faithful Annie - the Avro Anson

the formation consisted of 5 C.19s and a single T.21, but I'm blowed if I can discern which one was the latter.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 07:56
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Looking at the cockpit glazing there are three with one design (and some sort of black bulge: ADF loop?) and three with a different design.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 10:05
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Yes, it took place on 28th June 1968.

According to this source

Faithful Annie - the Avro Anson

the formation consisted of 5 C.19s and a single T.21, but I'm blowed if I can discern which one was the latter.
And Bovingdon closed a few months later.
It was my 'local' airfield where us ATC cadets would scrounge flights during summer hols; I flew in VL337 and PH859, though whether they're in that formation I don't know.
One of the Bovingdon Annies was temporarily painted camouflage and was seen in the closing stages of the film 'Mosquito Squadron' which was made at Bovingdon.
As for the difference between a C19 and a T21; not a lot, both types having 2 seats at the front facing forwards and 6 at the back facing backwards and both smelt the same.
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Old 21st Sep 2018, 10:38
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Originally Posted by treadigraph View Post
Looking at the cockpit glazing there are three with one design (and some sort of black bulge: ADF loop?) and three with a different design.
Yes, the black bulge is an ADF loop.

Anson photos on the 'Net don't seems to show any consistent differences between the C.19 and T.21 - some have no ADF loop at all, some have one just behind the cockpit roof glazing (both as in the photo) and some have the ADF loop further aft with an astrodome forward of it.
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Old 22nd Sep 2018, 23:33
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Seeing the "best messages" thread over on the military forum reminds me that as the prototype Beverley levitated on its maiden flight, Blackburn CTP Harold "Timber" Wood allegedly turned to his co-pilot and said "well, my side's airborne - is yours?"
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Old 23rd Sep 2018, 01:53
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The T.21 was a nav trainer with an astrodome, more or less in line with the first pax window behind the cockpit. Photos show many had the astrodome removed, and make it very difficult to distinguish from the C.19 communications version.
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Old 23rd Sep 2018, 06:33
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Originally Posted by megan View Post
The T.21 was a nav trainer with an astrodome, more or less in line with the first pax window behind the cockpit. Photos show many had the astrodome removed, and make it very difficult to distinguish from the C.19 communications version.
So what was the Mk 20?
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Old 23rd Sep 2018, 15:14
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I presume you refer to the T.20. That was a variant of the Mk XIX to meet Air Ministry Specification T.24/46 for an overseas navigation trainer, one pilot two wireless operators (one trainee and one instructor) and five navigator positions (three trainees and two instructors). Used for bombing and navigation training in Southern Rhodesia, 60 built.
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Old 23rd Sep 2018, 17:57
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Originally Posted by DaveReidUK View Post
Yes, it took place on 28th June 1968.

According to this source

Faithful Annie - the Avro Anson

the formation consisted of 5 C.19s and a single T.21, but I'm blowed if I can discern which one was the latter.
I think you will find the T21 was the C21 we had on Coastal Command Comm Flight. There were no external differences between the 19 and 21. However the 21 had an additional fuel tank inside the cabin, situated behind the main spar. I seem to remember it added about an extra hour to the endurance and had no fuel guage. On long flights from Bovingdon to Kinloss or even Edinburgh Turnhouse in a strong headwind we used to switch over to the cabin tank once in the cruise and use it until an engine started misfiring due to fuel starvation before rapidly switching back to the wing tanks.
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Old 23rd Sep 2018, 18:45
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Originally Posted by chevvron View Post
And Bovingdon closed a few months later.
One of the Bovingdon Annies was tempora4rily painted camouflage and was seen in the closing stages of the film 'Mosquito Squadron' which was made at Bovingdon.
When Columbia pictures were filming The War Lover at Bovingdon in 1961 I was detailed to fly a camera crew in one of our CCCF Ansons to film fair weather cumulus clouds in a clear blue sky which would be used as background in “flying sequences”. The rear door had been removed and the Cameraman was wearing a safety harness attach to one of the rear seats.
Elf and Safety would have gone apoplectic today!
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 16:37
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Continuing with my father's collection. No details for this.
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 17:49
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Fairey Albacore.
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 18:26
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Vague memory that test pilot Dinty Moore (father of Skysport Engineering's Tim Moore?) was test flying an Applecore when its engine departed the airframe completely; he somehow force landed it with no further damage...
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 20:44
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The hotel, according to the album!

Great, thanks DRUK. Next in the album is a routine shot of Croydon airfield at some point in the 1930s. My grandfather sold aircraft there and we'll see some examples as we go through - and as time permits me to sort them out.
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 21:00
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Aircraft in that shot is a DH-85 Leopard Moth...

Aerodrome side of the Croydon Airport Hotel. Looks a bit tatty, could it possibly be post-war?

Keep 'em coming, great stuff!
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Old 29th Sep 2018, 22:48
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I know its an Airspeed Envoy, the key part is: My paternal grandmother (whom I never knew) my father (already tall by his mid teens) and my Uncle Rodney (whom I also never knew). Their stories are for another day.

Thank you treadigraph. I don't think it's post war as my grandparents both died in the war (V2 in the back garden, October 1944) although my father may well have returned to Croydon airfield to see friends of his father. So one more before another full week of work keeps me away from this enjoyable pastime.
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Old 30th Sep 2018, 06:49
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Hi Paxboy. That's not an Airspeed Envoy, first thought was it's a retractable or at least a trouserless version of the Percival Q6 but the glazing doesn't look right. Certainly looks like Gipsy engines of one type or another.

Trying to fit it to Croydon as well. Shadows suggest early morning looking SW or late evening looking NE - background hills look rather rural for the surrounding area in the 1930s. Bit in front of the nose might be Croham Hurst looking ENE from the aerodrome but, as I know from regular walks, the Hurst slopes quite steeply! Just a thought - might it be Shoreham, looking NE towards Truleigh Hill, houses on the other side of the River Adur?

Edit: It's the Miles M.8 Peregrine!

Last edited by treadigraph; 30th Sep 2018 at 07:04.
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