Aer Lingus BAC 1-11s

[rog747]

WHBM
do you think they did summer charters - night Palma or Barcelona - that sort of thing ?

[goofer]

A charming thread, much enjoyed. I have many happy memories of flying on Aer Lingus 1-11s in the '60s and '70s to Lourdes, Barcelona and Le Bourget. Also to Manchester, Glasgow and Edinburgh. The Continental flights always seemed extra glamorous - mini long-haul trips with cocktails and real hot meals! Sometimes the GLA and EDI flights were combined and resultant low-altitude hop across central Scotland was a real thrill.
Talking of short hops, I would often sample some four-jet transAtlantic sophistication by taking the 707 and later 747 flights from SNN to DUB or BFS. And one lucky day - is this a record? - riding 707 EI-AMW from DUB to BFS. Now those really were the days...!
Keep the stories coming,
Goofer

[Mooncrest]

I think I like the 707 more than the 1-11. It's still a very handsome aeroplane. There is some film out there (YouTube ?) of the final Aer Lingus 707 flight, with Captain Joe Dible at the helm.

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by rog747

WHBM
do you think they did summer charters - night Palma or Barcelona - that sort of thing ?

I just don't think there was the market in Ireland in 1966 for that, I've never seen any pictures of such at the time (or of Spanish operators in Dublin come to that). They had several a week schedules to Barcelona, and even a springtime, Malaga, actually given up for the summer schedule shown here, which rather extraordinarily stopped at Lourdes on the way and thus was getting only half a planeload to the coast.

The Viscounts were doing what seem to be holiday flights to Rennes, Jersey, Isle of Man, and even Blackpool.

The only holiday charter flights by jet in 1966 seem to be on One-Elevens, BUA from Gatwick and British Eagle from Heathrow, both just fitting them in between schedules. They might have worked in the odd one from Manchester. The Med jet charter market was just starting to stir.

Originally Posted by Mooncrest

I think I like the 707 more than the 1-11. It's still a very handsome aeroplane. There is some film out there (YouTube ?) of the final Aer Lingus 707 flight, with Captain Joe Dible at the helm.

1986.
https://www.rte.ie/archives/2016/102...us-boeing-707/

Originally Posted by goofer

Talking of short hops, I would often sample some four-jet transAtlantic sophistication by taking the 707 and later 747 flights from SNN to DUB or BFS. And one lucky day - is this a record? - riding 707 EI-AMW from DUB to BFS. Now those really were the days...!

I understood that taking the short 707/747 hop from Dublin to Shannon, a required stop for transatlantic flights, was a real rite-of-passage in Ireland as a first flight for so many, coming back at the end of the day from Limerick on the train. It seems many social groups got together to do this, from the church, from the pub (probably the same grouping in Ireland !), and along with the kids filled in the spaces that might be taken beyond Shannon. Yield management must have had to exercise much judgement to avoid potential bookings from Dublin being crowded out by all this.

Do you recall the fare ?

[Mooncrest]

Slightly off-topic but one thing I recall about the EIN Commuter Fokker 50s is that they were always immaculately turned out. I guess the whole fleet stopped at Dublin every night, providing an opportunity for a brief spruce-up at least.

[Liffy 1M]

Two-part home video of the 707 charter to Knock.

You Tube

You Tube

[treadigraph]

Originally Posted by Mooncrest

Captain Joe Dible at the helm.

Any relation to Mike Dible?

[Mooncrest]

It was an Aer Lingus 1-11 that had the honour of performing the first jet airliner flights through Leeds Bradford some time in the 1960s. Not on a Dublin schedule- still Viscounts then - but a charter for Leeds United. It's a wonder EIN had time for the job given how busy the 1-11s were.

[rog747]

WHBM

Once again thank for your wonderful recollections as always - I have asked the Q on the Aer Lingus staff/crew memories FB group about early years of any EI 1-11 charters and await replies.

Re your comments - spot on....
quote:
The only holiday charter flights by jet in 1966 seem to be on One-Elevens, BUA from Gatwick and Bournemouth Hurn (Bath travel) and British Eagle from Heathrow, both just fitting them in between schedules. They might have worked in the odd one from Manchester, and Liverpool (Lunn Poly Everyman)

The Med jet charter market was just starting to stir.

Hurn, saw Bath travel/Palmair began using BUA 1-11's from there quite early on, and British Eagle flew theirs down as far as Tunis and Djerba from London Airport.
Channel AW (Mediterranean Holidays and Lyons Tours) and Laker (Lord Bros) both started 1-11 flights to the Med in 1967, and Autair (Clarksons) followed in 1968

The larger BAC 1-11 500 first began charters in 1969 with a fleet of 5 for BUA for Horizon and 3 for Caledonian AW operating for Global,

In 1970 saw Court Line start ops with their large fleet (and 3 for BMA) These were the first airliners to be fitted with seat back grub...

[WHBM]

All four of the EI One-Elevens were not required for schedules midweek in the timetable I quoted, Saturday was the busiest day. Thus they likely had the capacity for one offs like football team charters on other days. They weren't busy at all.

At a pinch they could substitute a Viscount to free things up. The Saturday Manchester/Amsterdam flight I listed was the only schedule of the week on that route which was a jet, others were still on Viscounts.

Aer Lingus always seem to have been fairly flexible with their aircraft arrangements, and still are, as a recent A330 flight from Heathrow to Dublin showed me. But the most surprising one must have been a dreary winter day in 1970, when I chanced to be at Bristol Lulsgate when their infrequent Viscount from Dublin also happened to be due, coming in about 2 hours late. It arrived as one of their original Boeing 720s, with just a half-Viscount (maybe less) of passengers. I wonder if it was the first Boeing ever to visit Bristol.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by WHBM

I wonder if it was the first Boeing ever to visit Bristol.

Not quite.



January 1943.

[goofer]

Forgot to mention the Aer Lingus rugby charters, at least one of which brought a full 707 load to 13/31 (6000ft) at Edinburgh/Turnhouse in ?1970. I remember seeing a photo in the Edinburgh evening paper, the caption asking "Is this a sign of things to come?" - a reference to debate at the time about the need for a longer, realigned runway.
Goofer

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by goofer

Forgot to mention the Aer Lingus rugby charters, at least one of which brought a full 707 load to 13/31 (6000ft) at Edinburgh/Turnhouse in ?1970. I remember seeing a photo in the Edinburgh evening paper, the caption asking "Is this a sign of things to come?" - a reference to debate at the time about the need for a longer, realigned runway.
Goofer

Probably either 1971 or 1973 - the Irish international was only at Murrayfield in odd-numbered years. There are several copies of the same photo of EI-APG at Edinburgh on the 'Net, quoting both of those years, I don't know which is right.

[parabellum]

First flight on a BAC1-11, as a pax, was December 1965 from Gatwick to Hannover, a troop charter.

Always thought it a shame that BAC didn't use a fairing between the bottom of the leading edge of the tail fin and the top of the cabin, similar to the VC10, would have finished it off perfectly!

[goofer]

Originally Posted by DaveReidUK

Probably either 1971 or 1973 - the Irish international was only at Murrayfield in odd-numbered years. There are several copies of the same photo of EI-APG at Edinburgh on the 'Net, quoting both of those years, I don't know which is right.

Good point, appreciated. I'll go with 1973 then... despite disappointing result - Ireland lost (Thank you Ian McGeehan!)

[WHBM]

Originally Posted by parabellum

Always thought it a shame that BAC didn't use a fairing between the bottom of the leading edge of the tail fin and the top of the cabin, similar to the VC10, would have finished it off perfectly!

Such fairings or fillets, which add to drag, were (hopefully past tense nowadays) generally applied after it is discovered the fin on the initial design does not have enough control authority. There are numerous examples of them being added after initial test flights of a type.

Probably either 1971 or 1973 - the Irish international was only at Murrayfield in odd-numbered years.

Very off topic but it will have been 1972 then when France were at Murrayfield and I was in Edinburgh, went out to the old Turnhouse to see what was there in the afternoon. Three Air Charter Caravelles on the ramp, quite a sight at a time when jets there were confined to a couple of B-Cal One-Elevens per day.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by WHBM

Very off topic but it will have been 1972 then when France were at Murrayfield and I was in Edinburgh, went out to the old Turnhouse to see what was there in the afternoon. Three Air Charter Caravelles on the ramp, quite a sight at a time when jets there were confined to a couple of B-Cal One-Elevens per day.

The French Caravelles used to cause lots of excitement, as they used their brake parachutes when landing on Edinburgh's (then) 6000' runway.

Re jets, BEA did put Comets on some of the EDI/LHR schedules in the late 1960s, but then reverted to Vanguards when the Comets were retired around 1970, before putting Tridents on some flights (whose landing technique on the old runway involved reverse thrust before touching down).

BEA also had Super One-Elevens, of course, which operated EDI/MAN throughout that period.

[WHBM]

The Caravelle flight engineer was meant to repack the brake parachute themselves at places like Edinburgh where there was not a company engineer trained in it, but I believe they just stuck it in the hold and left it for Paris to sort out if it wasn't on the MEL for the return. Parachutes were required on the Caravelle 3 (which Air France bought to the end) and 6N, the 6R and subsequent models had reversers, after both United Airlines and the FAA had a collective fit at the mere suggestion that the parachutes might blow around US airports (a couple of South American operators already ran them into Miami, I wonder if they were prohibited there).

Don't recall BEA Comets to Edinburgh. They did to Glasgow, mainly to counter the British Eagle One-Eleven from Heathrow, but when the latter went under at the end of 1968 they didn't have to try so hard. I was there all through the New Runway debate, through to its commissioning (and new terminal), and recall then the first Comets I saw in there were Dan-Air who started holiday flights. Yes, although it was one of the last Vanguard routes and BEA maintained that Tridents were not possible without the new runway, once construction began they started the transition and it was all Trident to Heathrow before the new runway opened (which I think coincided with the start of the Edinburgh Shuttle).

We humble students could just about afford the B Cal "Moonjet", the cheap One-Eleven that left at 10pm to Gatwick. Was it £10 ? Not even a glass of water. Shades of 2018.

I last used the old runway probably 10 years ago in a 146.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by WHBM

Don't recall BEA Comets to Edinburgh. They did to Glasgow, mainly to counter the British Eagle One-Eleven from Heathrow, but when the latter went under at the end of 1968 they didn't have to try so hard. I was there all through the New Runway debate, through to its commissioning (and new terminal), and recall then the first Comets I saw in there were Dan-Air who started holiday flights.

May have been before your time.

They were certainly a fairly common sight in the late 1960s, though those may have been ad-hoc replacements for the Vanguard on the day, rather than timetabled as Comets. They included the Olympic-liveried ones from time to time, and I even managed to blag a tour of G-ARCO on the ramp just a few weeks before it was blown up over the Med in October 1967.

Flickr Slideshows (Photostreams)

We humble students could just about afford the B Cal "Moonjet", the cheap One-Eleven that left at 10pm to Gatwick. Was it £10 ? Not even a glass of water. Shades of 2018.

I seem to recall it was about 6-7 quid in December 1971 on the only occasion I used it, while waiting for my BEA staff travel concessions to kick in.

[WHBM]

Yes indeed, couple of Comets scheduled in 1968

http://www.timetableimages.com/ttima...6/be686-28.jpg

A BEA Comet only seated 89, compared to 135 in a Vanguard, the same timetable tells us, so substituting one for the other on the day was not commonly practicable; this was though apparently done when the Tridents were later subbed for Vanguards, it being outside limits for the former when a significant crosswind was forecast on the old Edinburgh runway, which in best Scottish tradition (see Prestwick, Aberdeen) was at right angles to the prevailing wind. I wonder how both crewing and reservations coped with decisions on the day.