Cabin noise levels in old airliners
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The Aeroplane or the Flight magazine quoted that the toilets at the rear of the Comet 4B were not the places for a quick read or quiet contemplation ,in an article of the introduction of the model into airline service with B.E.A,never cured the problem .
Doing a Genny Balance either inside or outside the aircraft was a ear splitting experience,kept the surrounding country side awake on the night shift they were not amused.
Doing a Genny Balance either inside or outside the aircraft was a ear splitting experience,kept the surrounding country side awake on the night shift they were not amused.
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During the war, yes. In earlier times, according to an article by one H.H. Scott (the man known for early valve hifi design), attempts were made before standards were agreed upon - some devices used carbon mikes, others the best quality condenser microphones available. Some equipment setups came in the form of 4-5 wooden boxes that, in total, weighed in at over 100lbs, with batteries.
Much of the early research involved the quantification of human speech, thus the VU meter was born. This began to gather steam in the mid 1930s in the US, with industry standards coming in 1942, and international adoption in 1953. The dB meter scale was first used in the 1930s.
Noise regulation did not begin in the states until the early 1970s and specific commercial aircraft studies did not begin (understandably) until the screamin-mimi turbojet days of the 1960s - although such research was generally focused on external noise in and around airports and laws were not passed in the US until 1968.
General Radio Co. hand-held model from the early 1950s, a 4 valve unit with interchangeable microphones promised a +/-1dB accuracy on "average machine noises":
Fully transistorized "gun type" unit from LEA of France circa 1960:
A more commonly seen device from the very well known B&K of Denmark, also produced in the 1960s, took the shape used for decades afterwards and used a condenser microphone:
Much of the early research involved the quantification of human speech, thus the VU meter was born. This began to gather steam in the mid 1930s in the US, with industry standards coming in 1942, and international adoption in 1953. The dB meter scale was first used in the 1930s.
Noise regulation did not begin in the states until the early 1970s and specific commercial aircraft studies did not begin (understandably) until the screamin-mimi turbojet days of the 1960s - although such research was generally focused on external noise in and around airports and laws were not passed in the US until 1968.
General Radio Co. hand-held model from the early 1950s, a 4 valve unit with interchangeable microphones promised a +/-1dB accuracy on "average machine noises":
Fully transistorized "gun type" unit from LEA of France circa 1960:
A more commonly seen device from the very well known B&K of Denmark, also produced in the 1960s, took the shape used for decades afterwards and used a condenser microphone:
I'm sure the noise in a DC3 cabin in the cruise was quite loud, but it was a soothing, soporific, low frequency rumble that made every flight as a passenger a pleasure.
Which leads to the observation that it's the nature of the noise, as much as its decibel value, that determines its impact on passengers.
Which leads to the observation that it's the nature of the noise, as much as its decibel value, that determines its impact on passengers.
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" it was a soothing, soporific, low frequency rumble that made every flight as a passenger a pleasure"
Your's must have been different from the one I used to fly in............... I think distance is rather clouding the view (or the noise)
Your's must have been different from the one I used to fly in............... I think distance is rather clouding the view (or the noise)
Inside and out the BAC One-eleven took a lot of beating where noise was concerned. Painfully loud engine noise in the rear of the cabin with clunks, bangs and thuds when the landing gear was extending of retracting together with the graunching noises from (hydraulic?) flap motors etc.
It was thought that the high-pitched scream of the Dart had a particularly deleterious effect on cockpit-crews' hearing. AME Dr Ron Wambeek (formerly the "prone" pilot:
more thread-drift) once told me he could tell by audiogram which seat a pilot occupied, because most of us had the inboard earpiece of our headsets off so as to communicate with each other (and visiting cabin crew) without using the intercom.I thought the old lady was still rumbling nicely.
Yes, maybe. Mind you, I saw the one I was talking about on the telly only the other day; G-AMRA, which I last saw 40+ years ago on its last charter to a strip just west of the Liwa Oasis, now evidently still in rude health and teaching Ewan (or was it Colin) MacGregor to fly a heavy piston/propeller aircraft, as a prelude to flying the BBME Lancaster.
I thought the old lady was still rumbling nicely.
I thought the old lady was still rumbling nicely.
Great footage, and a particular treat for those of us who have flown Romeo-Alpha.You said DC-3 cabin-noise was "a soothing, soporific, low frequency rumble that made every flight as a passenger a pleasure." That may well have been the case but Heathrow Harry may - like me - be thinking of the cockpit and even cabin of a C-47 (Dakota) freighter, which is what G-AMRA is. Unlike passenger versions, there's absolutely no sound insulation. It's fairly noisy, but the sound intensity and frequency of the P&W R-1890 (Twin Wasp) radials is more tolerable than I imagine the Darts with which a few Daks are retro-fitted.
If PPRUNE had existed back then, we would have had about 10 paqes of OMG, they had a part fall off and continued on over then channel??? followed up with pages of rebuttal, no... the crew made a professional call....no, they did not....why no divert? a few posting about Douglass/vs. Lockheed/ vs Hawker, comments on training and maintenance and a few stray comments on this being Prime Minister Wilsons fault....
Heathrow Harry may - like me - be thinking of the cockpit
But I confess that what prompted that was my recollection of having to enquire on one flight from Bahrain to Abu Dhabi, perched on a load of cigarettes as supernumary to hitch a lift, why both pilots carefully put on their issue raincoats before boarding. "Because the forecast says we'll be flying through rain", came the reply.
"Jkerman,
if you want to try a Ford Tri-motor yourself then the EAA have 1 that you can fly on in the USA - well worth it "
I flew in said EAA Trimotor last summer and it was noisy, however, the flight was only 25 mins so no bother.
Having experienced Viscounts and Vanguards many years ago, the Vanguard was horrible.
An earlier flight in a Britannia seemed quite quiet.
f
if you want to try a Ford Tri-motor yourself then the EAA have 1 that you can fly on in the USA - well worth it "
I flew in said EAA Trimotor last summer and it was noisy, however, the flight was only 25 mins so no bother.
Having experienced Viscounts and Vanguards many years ago, the Vanguard was horrible.
An earlier flight in a Britannia seemed quite quiet.
f
An earlier flight in a Britannia seemed quite quiet.
A year later a flew on a BOAC Argonaut. It was certainly noisy and no, the coin would not stand up!!! Later I flew on an Air France Starliner, 12 hrs Orly to Fort Lamy, then on to Nairobi. I seem to remember it as noisier than the Argonaut. The "ringing in your ears" sensation lasted for about three days. Endured the worst air sickness, ever, on that flight.
. Considering what a great engine the RR Tyne was (is?) for its day, it's a pity that Vickers couldn't produce a more tranquil cabin for the Vanguard. As Dave Reid writes above, the vibration was the problem.
I used to travel occasionally on a midnight flight EDI/LHR (£3/10/=, if memory serves) with few other pax, so that the only audible chatter was the usual stuff from the cabin crew in the galley. In my rear passenger seat, this was relieved at intervals of - perhaps - about half a minute as the next wave of resonance, apparently caused by a slight de-synchronisation of the engines, progressed aft along the fuselage skin. That may have been one of the reasons BUA's One-Elevens became so popular (despite the supposed handicap of Gatwick) when they were introduced on the GLA and EDI in 1966.
I flew RAF and Civil Britannias for ten years. There was no mechanical vibration from the Proteus engines, but the props produced a rumbling noise in the cabin in line with the engines. We had two crew bunks at the rear of the cabin in our 312F Brits and I used to find wind noise and a constant circular motion of the tail end made it difficult to sleep.
I can remember, after many navigation sectors across the Atlantic in BOAC Britannia 312s, climbing into the crew rest bunk which was in the plane of the propellors and having an excellent sleep.
It was rather like one of those vibro massage beds - the same frequency and oh so soporific!
It was rather like one of those vibro massage beds - the same frequency and oh so soporific!
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As a youngster, flew a number of times on DC-6s, typically trailing edge of wing seats - great visual of the oil streaming back over the wing from the cowl flaps I was too in awe of flying to notice the noise or vibration - just remember a pleasant hum.
Years later flew cross country on a DC-8 and was supposed to return on same but that was the year of the 'great airplane strike'. Came back on a brand new 707 and recall it being much quieter (and roomier) than the outbound DC-8 sitting in the same location. For those interested, round trip EWR-LAX first class - $350.
I was too in awe of flying to notice the noise or vibration - just remember a pleasant hum.Years later flew cross country on a DC-8 and was supposed to return on same but that was the year of the 'great airplane strike'. Came back on a brand new 707 and recall it being much quieter (and roomier) than the outbound DC-8 sitting in the same location. For those interested, round trip EWR-LAX first class - $350.
Considering what a great engine the RR Tyne was (is?) for its day, it's a pity that Vickers couldn't produce a more tranquil cabin for the Vanguard. As Dave Reid writes above, the vibration was the problem.
I used to travel occasionally on a midnight flight EDI/LHR (£3/10/=, if memory serves) with few other pax, so that the only audible chatter was the usual stuff from the cabin crew in the galley. In my rear passenger seat, this was relieved at intervals of - perhaps - about half a minute as the next wave of resonance, apparently caused by a slight de-synchronisation of the engines, progressed aft along the fuselage skin.
I used to travel occasionally on a midnight flight EDI/LHR (£3/10/=, if memory serves) with few other pax, so that the only audible chatter was the usual stuff from the cabin crew in the galley. In my rear passenger seat, this was relieved at intervals of - perhaps - about half a minute as the next wave of resonance, apparently caused by a slight de-synchronisation of the engines, progressed aft along the fuselage skin.
On the instrument panel the synchrophaser was located top right of the centre panel. The presentation was three mini (2-bladed) propellers which rotated when the slaved RPMs were out of synch. IIRC there was a switch to activate and deactivate the synchrophaser but I can't remember its location.
The 'Flight' article describes the various devices incorporated to prevent prop pitch from fining off if control of RPM was lost. A prop overspeed was considered a serious prob on the Guardsvan as it could lead to prop/engine disintegration. IIRC the drill was to reduce airspeed immediately to 125 kts.
The novel 'The Damocles Plot' by Julien Evans describes piloting a Merchantman (Vanguard freighter conversion).