Cabin noise levels in old airliners
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My recollection of the 707 was that it was rather quiet in the front (mostly wind noise) and quite noisy aft of the engines (with some vibration at times). The back of a DC-9 could be quite noisy, with a beat between the notes of the engines.
I agree FP - the 707 did seem quite quiet,I seem to remember that the DC8 was a little noisier,perhaps air conditioning noise ?? it has been quite a while since I flew in either - not since 1985 I should think.
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Pax Britanica
Have to agree with you re 707 as I spent a lot of time on them, and the DC8 as a child on long haul to and from Chile. In fact the Beatles song Back in the USSR sounds as though it has one on the opening few seconds on finals. The VC10 I only flew on 3 times and agree it was noisy externally, but I thought Trident was worse for some reason. Prop experience on classics is limited to DC3,4,6,VIKING,ARGONAUT,VISCOUNT,BRITANIA, and of course the more modern 748, ATP, and various Bombardier products. As I was quite young ie under 5 for DC,s,VIKING,ARGONAUT, I do not have much memory though do remember a pipe separating of the outer engine on a DC6 over France and some substance spraying out. Pointed out to dear old mum, who got a Stew, who in turn got the F/E who looked at it and said yes "he thought something had happened", engine feathered on we went to LHR no Daily Mail headlines involved as from memory this was not unusual.
Kind Regards
Mr Mac
Have to agree with you re 707 as I spent a lot of time on them, and the DC8 as a child on long haul to and from Chile. In fact the Beatles song Back in the USSR sounds as though it has one on the opening few seconds on finals. The VC10 I only flew on 3 times and agree it was noisy externally, but I thought Trident was worse for some reason. Prop experience on classics is limited to DC3,4,6,VIKING,ARGONAUT,VISCOUNT,BRITANIA, and of course the more modern 748, ATP, and various Bombardier products. As I was quite young ie under 5 for DC,s,VIKING,ARGONAUT, I do not have much memory though do remember a pipe separating of the outer engine on a DC6 over France and some substance spraying out. Pointed out to dear old mum, who got a Stew, who in turn got the F/E who looked at it and said yes "he thought something had happened", engine feathered on we went to LHR no Daily Mail headlines involved as from memory this was not unusual.
Kind Regards
Mr Mac
I was going to Antwerp on business witha colleague whowas frightened of flying. A dart herald was the scheduled plane to Antwerp but was leaking fluid all over the ramp as we watched from inside the terminal. that got cancelled and we end up ona Sabena 707 320 (note no B or C suffix)
We also sat well behind the wing and he was literally terrified as we spooled up for take off with a thunderous roaring because that was one noisy noisy beast . Mind you i have also been on a BOAC 707 436 and an Alitalia DC8-40 both of which were extremely noisy with a crackling vibration in spite of the monster movable noise suppressors (!!?) the latter was fitted with that moved back and forth on rails and must have been a big weight penalty for little apparent reduction in dB
We also sat well behind the wing and he was literally terrified as we spooled up for take off with a thunderous roaring because that was one noisy noisy beast . Mind you i have also been on a BOAC 707 436 and an Alitalia DC8-40 both of which were extremely noisy with a crackling vibration in spite of the monster movable noise suppressors (!!?) the latter was fitted with that moved back and forth on rails and must have been a big weight penalty for little apparent reduction in dB
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As an apprentice with BOAC in the early 1960s we had an Argonaut to play with, well it was supposedly to give us some piston engine practical experience. George Tippens [an old BOAC overseas engineer} was in charge of it and he told the following story.
Initially he Argonaut had exhaust stacks on both sides of the engine and perhaps because of the noisy cabin they swapped the inner stack over the engine [inside the cowling] to the outside , so with all exhaust exits pointing away from the cabin it made it somewhat quieter.
Now when the present Queen return from Kenya [ on a modified aircraft] in 1952 due to her fathers death, someone is said to have asked her did she think the cabin was quieter to which she said yes and on the word of a grieving daughter the mod went fleet wise.
Well you might ask how i remember this and it was because one of George's favourite task for us was to change the inner plugs on the Merlin with the mod fitted . Yes got the plugs out and back but my hands were cut, grazed and bleeding after trying to work around the crossover exhaust and all for a quieter cabin !!!!!
Initially he Argonaut had exhaust stacks on both sides of the engine and perhaps because of the noisy cabin they swapped the inner stack over the engine [inside the cowling] to the outside , so with all exhaust exits pointing away from the cabin it made it somewhat quieter.
Now when the present Queen return from Kenya [ on a modified aircraft] in 1952 due to her fathers death, someone is said to have asked her did she think the cabin was quieter to which she said yes and on the word of a grieving daughter the mod went fleet wise.
Well you might ask how i remember this and it was because one of George's favourite task for us was to change the inner plugs on the Merlin with the mod fitted . Yes got the plugs out and back but my hands were cut, grazed and bleeding after trying to work around the crossover exhaust and all for a quieter cabin !!!!!
N4790P
As an apprentice with BOAC in the early 1960s we had an Argonaut to play with, well it was supposedly to give us some piston engine practical experience. George Tippens [an old BOAC overseas engineer} was in charge of it and he told the following story.
Initially he Argonaut had exhaust stacks on both sides of the engine and perhaps because of the noisy cabin they swapped the inner stack over the engine [inside the cowling] to the outside , so with all exhaust exits pointing away from the cabin it made it somewhat quieter.
Now when the present Queen return from Kenya [ on a modified aircraft] in 1952 due to her fathers death, someone is said to have asked her did she think the cabin was quieter to which she said yes and on the word of a grieving daughter the mod went fleet wise.
Well you might ask how i remember this and it was because one of George's favourite task for us was to change the inner plugs on the Merlin with the mod fitted . Yes got the plugs out and back but my hands were cut, grazed and bleeding after trying to work around the crossover exhaust and all for a quieter cabin !!!!!
Initially he Argonaut had exhaust stacks on both sides of the engine and perhaps because of the noisy cabin they swapped the inner stack over the engine [inside the cowling] to the outside , so with all exhaust exits pointing away from the cabin it made it somewhat quieter.
Now when the present Queen return from Kenya [ on a modified aircraft] in 1952 due to her fathers death, someone is said to have asked her did she think the cabin was quieter to which she said yes and on the word of a grieving daughter the mod went fleet wise.
Well you might ask how i remember this and it was because one of George's favourite task for us was to change the inner plugs on the Merlin with the mod fitted . Yes got the plugs out and back but my hands were cut, grazed and bleeding after trying to work around the crossover exhaust and all for a quieter cabin !!!!!
Great memories
In the '50s, the absolute worst was the North Star - Merlin engines.
As a QFI in the right hand "dicky" seat wearing the old leather helmets, the noise from the starboard inner engine (RR Merlin 102 which had straight out exhaust pipes as against the RR Merlin 85 with shrouded exhausts) was extremely painful at take off power +18 boost and 3000 RPM on some occasions and +12 boost on others. I tried to reduce the pain by pressing my right hand hard over my right ear area during the take off run while backing up the four throttles with my left hand.
It was quite a relief to pull back the throttles to +9 boost for the climb.
During maritime patrols, the sonarbuoy operators in the (long) nose of the Lincoln would open the large observation window on each side of the fuselage. A deflection blade kept the wind out but the open window let in the combined noise of four RR Merlins and this could be for several hours during anti-submarine or SAR searches. After some ten hour flights the crew would climb down from the Lincoln with ringing in their ears that could last for hours. The long term damage to our hearing manifested itself to some crew members in later years although for some reason I was fortunate and at 86 my hearing is still good.
The instructional Comet 4C was G-APDT which did, as you say, spend some years with Mexicana before returning to the UK in about 1969. It survived as a fire service training aid at LHR until about 1990. The Argonaut, as a much rarer machine, had unfortunately succumbed some years earlier in 1982, very much the worse for wear after a similar role with the fire service.
When I served on 30 Sqn I was the designated 'minder' for a university team who had been tasked to investigate noise levels in the cargo compartment of the C130K. They concluded that db levels, frequency range and length of exposure were all contributory factors as was the excessive vibration levels. Their summary was 'it is the equivalent of being in a disco with a pneumatic drill operated nearby and it would not be tolerated in civilian use as a workplace/transport environment even with the use of ear defenders'. Our headsets were described as useless in this context.
You will not be surprise to hear that nothing was done at least not while I was on the 'K'.
You will not be surprise to hear that nothing was done at least not while I was on the 'K'.
Acquaintance of mine flew C130's in the Arctic Region. The APU was in the wheel well and the exhaust noise was horrific and exacerbated by the ice cold thick air. In those days ear protectors were yet to be used and in later years many crew members suffered premature deafness as they aged
The initiator of the thread posted a very specific question: What was the noise level in older airliner measured in dB.
So why does everyone feel compelled to post their old, boring war stories about "noisy" and "quiet" airliners, which nobody reads anyway and which do not reply to this question?
So why does everyone feel compelled to post their old, boring war stories about "noisy" and "quiet" airliners, which nobody reads anyway and which do not reply to this question?
The initiator of the thread posted a very specific question: What was the noise level in older airliner measured in dB.
So why does everyone feel compelled to post their old, boring war stories about "noisy" and "quiet" airliners, which nobody reads anyway and which do not reply to this question?
So why does everyone feel compelled to post their old, boring war stories about "noisy" and "quiet" airliners, which nobody reads anyway and which do not reply to this question?
Also, the interior noise level is not the same all over the aircraft.
For example, in the F70/100, the forward passenger cabin is rather quiet and agreeable to travel in, while those that dwell in the rear rows are screamed at by two compressors that (at lower power settings) may produce an audible beat while having their noses assailed by the occasional whiff from the outhouses. On the Dash, things are a bit different: from a noise standpoint, the most desirable spot is in the far back where the propellers are hardly audible. The business class however, placed in the front by people not having heeded the lessons from the big piston liners, is a different story.
For example, in the F70/100, the forward passenger cabin is rather quiet and agreeable to travel in, while those that dwell in the rear rows are screamed at by two compressors that (at lower power settings) may produce an audible beat while having their noses assailed by the occasional whiff from the outhouses. On the Dash, things are a bit different: from a noise standpoint, the most desirable spot is in the far back where the propellers are hardly audible. The business class however, placed in the front by people not having heeded the lessons from the big piston liners, is a different story.
N4790P
The initiator of the thread posted a very specific question: What was the noise level in older airliner measured in dB.
So why does everyone feel compelled to post their old, boring war stories about "noisy" and "quiet" airliners, which nobody reads anyway and which do not reply to this question?
So why does everyone feel compelled to post their old, boring war stories about "noisy" and "quiet" airliners, which nobody reads anyway and which do not reply to this question?
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The initiator of the thread posted a very specific question: What was the noise level in older airliner measured in dB.
So why does everyone feel compelled to post their old, boring war stories about "noisy" and "quiet" airliners, which nobody reads anyway and which do not reply to this question?
So why does everyone feel compelled to post their old, boring war stories about "noisy" and "quiet" airliners, which nobody reads anyway and which do not reply to this question?
That's what this place is for - if you want INFORMATION you should use Google......
Of course sometimes... someone asked about his partners first flight on a US Air 767 about 25 years ago - withing 6 hours he was able to read the date, time, flight number c/n number and a photo of the plane on here........
I remember seeing Viscount and Electra First Class at the back, well away from the props.
Also remember flying from Paris to/from Nantes with Air Inter. Caravelle III very noisy one way and Caravelle XII very quiet the other way. I was sat near the front both ways and I think it was mostly aircon noise.
This was 1976 and the announcements were in French only so I asked for the safety brief in English and received a personal brief by a very pretty hostess.
Also remember flying from Paris to/from Nantes with Air Inter. Caravelle III very noisy one way and Caravelle XII very quiet the other way. I was sat near the front both ways and I think it was mostly aircon noise.
This was 1976 and the announcements were in French only so I asked for the safety brief in English and received a personal brief by a very pretty hostess.
The initiator of the thread posted a very specific question: What was the noise level in older airliner measured in dB.
So why does everyone feel compelled to post their old, boring war stories about "noisy" and "quiet" airliners, which nobody reads anyway and which do not reply to this question?
So why does everyone feel compelled to post their old, boring war stories about "noisy" and "quiet" airliners, which nobody reads anyway and which do not reply to this question?
It was thought that the high-pitched scream of the Dart had a particularly deleterious effect on cockpit-crews' hearing. AME Dr Ron Wambeek (formerly the "prone" pilot:
more thread-drift) once told me he could tell by audiogram which seat a pilot occupied, because most of us had the inboard earpiece of our headsets off so as to communicate with each other (and visiting cabin crew) without using the intercom.