Vickers Viscount pilots, cabin crew and engineers.
The same C of G issues apply when installing turbines on Otters and Beavers.
never seemed at BMA to have any CofG or trim issues on the viscount 800's we had
it was always bang down the middle IIRC !
it was very difficult to out trim one -
the rear baggage hold was in the aft cabin so you had to be mindful of rear trim
it was always bang down the middle IIRC !
it was very difficult to out trim one -
the rear baggage hold was in the aft cabin so you had to be mindful of rear trim
The RAAF had two Viscounts for No 34 (Special Transport) Squadron based at Canberra and used primarily as VIP transports in the mid-1960's. I flew about 600 hours on them some of which was as QFI. Although heavy on the controls they were easy to land with a "soft" undercarriage which meant an average pilot could consistently make greaser landings. However, the cockpit layout was a nightmare of levers and switches all over the place and the view from the cockpit was limited because of the window design. A beautiful looking aircraft though.
The regulars here doubtless know of it, but for anyone interested in Viscounts, down to the detailed history of each airframe, and all sorts of sidebar stories, an afternoon can be spent here
About the Vickers Viscount Network
About the Vickers Viscount Network
IIRC One significant change from the 700 to 800 srs was the position of the two hydraulic pumps.
On the 700 they were on the outboard engines and on the 800 they were on the inboards.
This caused a few incidents when taxiing on two engines after landing if the wrong ones were shut down and there was no power to the steering.
On the 700 they were on the outboard engines and on the 800 they were on the inboards.
This caused a few incidents when taxiing on two engines after landing if the wrong ones were shut down and there was no power to the steering.
Now you've got me thinking, washoutt. (That doesn't happen too often!) It seems to me that shortening the moment arm between prop/engine and wing attach points would move the centers of gravity and balance rearward, therefore the wing would also need to be moved rearward to maintain balance. You are correct, Sir! I owe you a Heineken!
- Ed
- Ed
What a super thread!
I grew up with the BMA Viscounts, from aged 6, seeing them with feathered props in the circuit at Castle Don.,passing overhead our family home, taking my first ever flight on one to Jersey in 1968, climbing all over ones on check in the hangar, later boarding passengers on them during a ramp summer job for BMA, then landing for the first time ever at LHR, in autumn dusk, seated on the jump seat of 'LT.
Just when I thought I'd left them behind in going away to Leeds University, they started operating into LBA in 1980, passing over my student house close to the 32 OM. My housemates used to mock me for breaking off from a meal to pay respect to The Company Flag as they whined over.
The point of this slightly self-indulgent reflection is that I'd presumed that they would be around forever. They are gone, with no flyable example preserved. Perhaps a warning to us. Aircraft can play a large background role in our lives. One day we might feel the same way about the Dash 7-Q400.
The way the engines bounced on the nacelles was vaguely amusing, but probably disconcerting to nervous flyers. Common with other mature R-R Darts, milky-coffee-coloured fluid used to stream from the engine casings. Put a half-empty plastic cup on a tray table in the forward seats, and it would "walk" around the table due to vibration.
Those windows:- The late Kim Lerner, Teesside-based BMA cabin crew, said that she felt she might fall out the large windows when serving the window seat on a row of three. She poured coffee whilst looking 4 miles almost straight down at passing greenery.
The sound:- there was a unique airframe resonance harmonic when the first engine started, almost like a groan of pleasure. As a young BMA ticket agent at Teesside, I used to make sure all my post-dispatch tasks were done before going onto the ramp to hear the Sunday BD341 or Jersey start up.
I hear that there is one somewhere in Africa that might just be recoverable if the right wealthy enthusiast was so inclined. Any takers? :-)
I grew up with the BMA Viscounts, from aged 6, seeing them with feathered props in the circuit at Castle Don.,passing overhead our family home, taking my first ever flight on one to Jersey in 1968, climbing all over ones on check in the hangar, later boarding passengers on them during a ramp summer job for BMA, then landing for the first time ever at LHR, in autumn dusk, seated on the jump seat of 'LT.
Just when I thought I'd left them behind in going away to Leeds University, they started operating into LBA in 1980, passing over my student house close to the 32 OM. My housemates used to mock me for breaking off from a meal to pay respect to The Company Flag as they whined over.
The point of this slightly self-indulgent reflection is that I'd presumed that they would be around forever. They are gone, with no flyable example preserved. Perhaps a warning to us. Aircraft can play a large background role in our lives. One day we might feel the same way about the Dash 7-Q400.
The way the engines bounced on the nacelles was vaguely amusing, but probably disconcerting to nervous flyers. Common with other mature R-R Darts, milky-coffee-coloured fluid used to stream from the engine casings. Put a half-empty plastic cup on a tray table in the forward seats, and it would "walk" around the table due to vibration.
Those windows:- The late Kim Lerner, Teesside-based BMA cabin crew, said that she felt she might fall out the large windows when serving the window seat on a row of three. She poured coffee whilst looking 4 miles almost straight down at passing greenery.
The sound:- there was a unique airframe resonance harmonic when the first engine started, almost like a groan of pleasure. As a young BMA ticket agent at Teesside, I used to make sure all my post-dispatch tasks were done before going onto the ramp to hear the Sunday BD341 or Jersey start up.
I hear that there is one somewhere in Africa that might just be recoverable if the right wealthy enthusiast was so inclined. Any takers? :-)
Last edited by Midland 331; 18th Feb 2018 at 18:22.
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I had many flights on them between the UK mainland and Jersey, while working in Jersey in the 1970s. A beautiful aircraft to fly on with those large windows, hence my Pprune monicker. Such a contrast to the rather tired looking BIA Heralds which had to suffice when schedules dictated!
My supernumerary flight as BEA cabin crew was on a Viscount to Jersey. The start of 40 years which took me on to Trident, then BOAC 707, VC10, Tristar, DC10, 747, 767/757, 777.
I remember well a flight from Aberdeen to LHR on a Viscount where flight and cabin crew had bought wooden cases of kippers which were stowed on the flight deck. The smell is with me today!
I remember well a flight from Aberdeen to LHR on a Viscount where flight and cabin crew had bought wooden cases of kippers which were stowed on the flight deck. The smell is with me today!
Just thinking out loud here, but I wonder if the nacelle length wasn't also influenced by the total length of the engine plus exhaust. Being one of the first turboprop airliners, the designers may have wanted to keep all the hot bits in front of a firewall.
For Dart positioning compared to the w/b required for a piston engine, best comparison is the old Convair 440, which were actually converted to Dart power as the Convair 600.
The plane of the props, and the extent to which the engine projects in front of the wing, seem to be much the same.
440 :
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=co...RnsRSKyJzGg20M:
600 :
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=co...=1518987705642
The plane of the props, and the extent to which the engine projects in front of the wing, seem to be much the same.
440 :
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=co...RnsRSKyJzGg20M:
600 :
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=co...=1518987705642
Last edited by WHBM; 19th Feb 2018 at 00:44. Reason: changed 'prop plane' to 'plane of the props' as v confusing otherwise !
I just bumped a thread I posted some time ago containing a link to historic film footage of Viscount operations in New Zealand.
BTW....I undertook one Viscount flight in 1967 (at the age of 13) when I flew with New Zealand National Airways Corporation (NAC) from Napier to Christchurch. It involved two sectors: Napier to Wellington in a Fokker F-27 Friendship; and Wellington to Christchurch in a Vickers 800-series Viscount.
I can still remember how smooth and vibration free the Viscount was, and also those HUGE oval windows.
BTW....I undertook one Viscount flight in 1967 (at the age of 13) when I flew with New Zealand National Airways Corporation (NAC) from Napier to Christchurch. It involved two sectors: Napier to Wellington in a Fokker F-27 Friendship; and Wellington to Christchurch in a Vickers 800-series Viscount.
I can still remember how smooth and vibration free the Viscount was, and also those HUGE oval windows.
IIRC One significant change from the 700 to 800 srs was the position of the two hydraulic pumps.
On the 700 they were on the outboard engines and on the 800 they were on the inboards.
This caused a few incidents when taxiing on two engines after landing if the wrong ones were shut down and there was no power to the steering.
On the 700 they were on the outboard engines and on the 800 they were on the inboards.
This caused a few incidents when taxiing on two engines after landing if the wrong ones were shut down and there was no power to the steering.
Regards
Thread Starter
I remember the BMA aircraft at Leeds starting the two inboard engines on stand, taxiing away and starting the two outboards before reaching the runway. This would suggest the hydraulic pumps are linked to the inboard engines.
Another YouTube video features an A.W. Argosy flying over Brisbane. Obviously the noise is very Viscounty on account of the four Darts.
Another YouTube video features an A.W. Argosy flying over Brisbane. Obviously the noise is very Viscounty on account of the four Darts.
The Viscount was not just a short haul aircraft. By 1960 various operators were running them from London down to points all around Africa, and Iraqi Airways ran them on London to Baghdad, and straight onward down The Gulf to Delhi. Leave London at 1930 on Monday, and with 6 stops along the way, get to Delhi at 0330 on Wednesday.
http://www.timetableimages.com/ttima...a61/ia61-2.jpg
http://www.timetableimages.com/ttima...a61/ia61-2.jpg
The Viscount was not just a short haul aircraft. By 1960 various operators were running them from London down to points all around Africa, and Iraqi Airways ran them on London to Baghdad, and straight onward down The Gulf to Delhi. Leave London at 1930 on Monday, and with 6 stops along the way, get to Delhi at 0330 on Wednesday.
http://www.timetableimages.com/ttima...a61/ia61-2.jpg
http://www.timetableimages.com/ttima...a61/ia61-2.jpg
and Hunting LON down to East Africa
i think BEA's furthest was GIB Tangiers Malta and Sardinia with Athens and Nicosia in the east
but the aircraft went on from ATH and NCO as far as TLV IST Beirut BAH DOH KWI and Damascus operating under a different flight number with Olympic AW or Cyprus AW
comets in 1961 replaced the VC8 on these routes
LHR to CPH and SVO was a BEA route too for the Viscount
ZFT, the Viscounts operated on the MST-LGW route for Virgin were wet leased from British Air Ferries (BAF) and Euroair.
BAF was a major operator of the Viscounts in the 1980's thru to around 1998 using them in both passenger and freighter roles. They had at least one that had a proper freight door that was marketed as the Freightmaster. For quite a few years in 90's they used them on ParcelForce contracts with 2 based in EDI and 2 based in BFS flying down to CVT each weekday evening and then returning.
I think the Tinnitus I have now is probably down to being too close to too many RR Darts on Viscounts, F27, HS748 and Gulfstream 1 over the years. On the outside the noise was of a pitch that could be quite unpleasant at times, but inside it wasn't too bad on the Viscount.
My first Viscount flight was on a British Eagle VC7, G-ATDR, returning to LHR from LPL. It was filling in for a tech BAC 1-11.
Subsequently I had quite a few flights in Viscounts and always enjoyed the experience
BAF was a major operator of the Viscounts in the 1980's thru to around 1998 using them in both passenger and freighter roles. They had at least one that had a proper freight door that was marketed as the Freightmaster. For quite a few years in 90's they used them on ParcelForce contracts with 2 based in EDI and 2 based in BFS flying down to CVT each weekday evening and then returning.
I think the Tinnitus I have now is probably down to being too close to too many RR Darts on Viscounts, F27, HS748 and Gulfstream 1 over the years. On the outside the noise was of a pitch that could be quite unpleasant at times, but inside it wasn't too bad on the Viscount.
My first Viscount flight was on a British Eagle VC7, G-ATDR, returning to LHR from LPL. It was filling in for a tech BAC 1-11.
Subsequently I had quite a few flights in Viscounts and always enjoyed the experience