Airline Call Signs
Death Cruiser Flight Crew
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OK Dave, so was it their cable address that was Beeline Ruislip? Something was, to my memory.
Last edited by Georgeablelovehowindia; 17th Feb 2018 at 17:06.
https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarch...0-%200559.html
Death Cruiser Flight Crew
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Oh dear, that's the second time in the space of a couple of days that my memory has played tricks on me. However, the fact that I'm (a) aware of that fact and (b) after ten seconds or so of drumming the fingers on the desk, I can recall what the first instance of memory fade was about, I'm hopeful that it's not time for the men in white coats to turn up, just yet!
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Back in the late 60's, when I acquired my first airband radio, most UK airlines were still using the aircraft registration for their ATC callsign. Exceptions I remember were BOAC (Speedbird), Caledonian, Laker, British Eagle, Monarch, who used flight numbers from day one (April 1968), possibly Cambrian also. BEA switched to flight numbers around April 1969 IIRC - I remember a Heathrow visit on 13/4/69 and being somewhat dismayed when I found out. Most European operators, on the other hand, used flight numbers. Sabena were one exception who were still using registrations until at least 1977. Surprisingly, most of the US supplemental carriers seemed to be using registrations - I remember hearing Overseas National DC-8's, World 707's, Capitol DC-8's and American Flyers 727's all calling with registrations on 124.6 Mhz around 1969, which was the frequency controlling what then was Amber 1 Lichfield-Daventry-Woodley and Amber 2 Detling-Brookmans Park-Daventry.
What I am looking for is any info on when UK airlines switched to flight numbers. I think most were around the mid 70's when computerised flight plans came into use. Exceptions were still about, mainly positioning sectors and training flights. Also which foreign operators still used registrations - can anyone confirm Air France used registrations and when they switched to flight numbers. I seem to remember the Tarom IL-18's operating IT flights to the UK in the early 70's were using registrations - did they also use them for their scheduled flights to the UK? Info on Adria, Condorflug and Bavaria would also be helpful.
What I am looking for is any info on when UK airlines switched to flight numbers. I think most were around the mid 70's when computerised flight plans came into use. Exceptions were still about, mainly positioning sectors and training flights. Also which foreign operators still used registrations - can anyone confirm Air France used registrations and when they switched to flight numbers. I seem to remember the Tarom IL-18's operating IT flights to the UK in the early 70's were using registrations - did they also use them for their scheduled flights to the UK? Info on Adria, Condorflug and Bavaria would also be helpful.
Back in the late 60's, when I acquired my first airband radio, most UK airlines were still using the aircraft registration for their ATC callsign. Exceptions I remember were BOAC (Speedbird), Caledonian, Laker, British Eagle, Monarch, who used flight numbers from day one (April 1968), possibly Cambrian also. BEA switched to flight numbers around April 1969 IIRC - I remember a Heathrow visit on 13/4/69 and being somewhat dismayed when I found out. Most European operators, on the other hand, used flight numbers. Sabena were one exception who were still using registrations until at least 1977. Surprisingly, most of the US supplemental carriers seemed to be using registrations - I remember hearing Overseas National DC-8's, World 707's, Capitol DC-8's and American Flyers 727's all calling with registrations on 124.6 Mhz around 1969, which was the frequency controlling what then was Amber 1 Lichfield-Daventry-Woodley and Amber 2 Detling-Brookmans Park-Daventry.
What I am looking for is any info on when UK airlines switched to flight numbers. I think most were around the mid 70's when computerised flight plans came into use. Exceptions were still about, mainly positioning sectors and training flights. Also which foreign operators still used registrations - can anyone confirm Air France used registrations and when they switched to flight numbers. I seem to remember the Tarom IL-18's operating IT flights to the UK in the early 70's were using registrations - did they also use them for their scheduled flights to the UK? Info on Adria, Condorflug and Bavaria would also be helpful.
What I am looking for is any info on when UK airlines switched to flight numbers. I think most were around the mid 70's when computerised flight plans came into use. Exceptions were still about, mainly positioning sectors and training flights. Also which foreign operators still used registrations - can anyone confirm Air France used registrations and when they switched to flight numbers. I seem to remember the Tarom IL-18's operating IT flights to the UK in the early 70's were using registrations - did they also use them for their scheduled flights to the UK? Info on Adria, Condorflug and Bavaria would also be helpful.
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I got my air band radio in 1964. AFR were using flight numbers then - also the mass majority of European airlines eg DLH,AZA,SWR,KLM ; & PAA & TWA. The US non schedule carriers used regs at that time. Not surprising as most of their flights were one offs & not scheduled. This meant that they filed individual FPLs for each flight - so there was no reason why they could not use the a/c reg. It wasn’t so much computerized FPLs then, more the use of Repetetive FPLs using paper cards to store the info. These cards had holes stamped into them to denote which day of the week the flights operated. All you had to do was insert a prong into the “ Monday hole” & all of the Monday flights were selected. Ingenious, really !
I asked about Air France in particular after a learned colleague of mine was convinced they were using registrations in the late 60's which I didn't remember, so thanks again for confirming otherwise.
Rather mundane, but I remember 3 airlines who somewhat boringly used their 2 letter flight number prefix for their ATC callsign, hence Invicta/IM were "India Mike", IAS Cargo/FF were "Foxtrot Foxtrot", and Trans Mediterranean/TL were "Tango Lima". No doubt there were numerous others which my brain cells might wake up and recall eventually.
FWIW, Wikipedia suggests "EastAf".
Edit: As does this, which appears to be independent of all the Wiki clones.
Edit: As does this, which appears to be independent of all the Wiki clones.
One person Jhieminga might be able to contact for a definitive answer would be Gerry Surley (sorry, not sure of the spelling!), who performed engine runs on his former mount at Dunsfold last August.
BTW, if memory serves EAAC's station ops R/T callsign was "Eastair": e.g., "Eastair Nairobi."
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Another call sign I've just remembered. Austrian Airlines prefix OS call sign "Austrian". Austrian Air Charter prefix OB used Austrian Airlines airlines aircraft with the call sign "Austrian Charter". Much earache if you referred to them as just "Austrian" on the company RT.
Quote from me:
"Sorry to challenge the consensus, but I'm fairly sure EAAC's long-haul flights (Super VC10s by then) used "East African" as the callsign. Knowing pilots, "East Aff" would be a tolerable abbreviation for short-haul flights (DC-9s, F27s) on VHF, but it would not come over with sufficient clarity on HF R/T. "
Since posting that, I've met a younger colleague who - although he never flew for EAAC - learned to fly at Nairobi-Wilson aerodrome in the 1970s. When I asked him what was EAAC's callsign, he unhesitatingly said "East Af".
That backs up the Comet memoir on Sothicpress, so either my recollection above is completely wrong, or the callsign used was different on HF.
"Sorry to challenge the consensus, but I'm fairly sure EAAC's long-haul flights (Super VC10s by then) used "East African" as the callsign. Knowing pilots, "East Aff" would be a tolerable abbreviation for short-haul flights (DC-9s, F27s) on VHF, but it would not come over with sufficient clarity on HF R/T. "
Since posting that, I've met a younger colleague who - although he never flew for EAAC - learned to fly at Nairobi-Wilson aerodrome in the 1970s. When I asked him what was EAAC's callsign, he unhesitatingly said "East Af".
That backs up the Comet memoir on Sothicpress, so either my recollection above is completely wrong, or the callsign used was different on HF.
The exception was Dan Air who were still using registrations by prefixed by 'Dan Air'. ASPL, ARAY, ARRW and BEBA were the regulars
Dan-Air began to use alphanumeric callsigns a little later on, Airbanda. Only a handful of airlines did so forty-odd years ago - now they're all at it. As I recall, Dan-Air Bravo Six Echo Romeo was the c/s for the evening Leeds to Glasgow service. When Metropolitan assumed the Leeds routes, they used flight numbers prefixed with Metro.
That's an option indeed, I'll get in touch with Jerry Sirley and will ask him (and will report back!).
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Back in the late 60's, when I acquired my first airband radio, most UK airlines were still using the aircraft registration for their ATC callsign. Exceptions I remember were BOAC (Speedbird), Caledonian, Laker, British Eagle, Monarch, who used flight numbers from day one (April 1968), possibly Cambrian also. BEA switched to flight numbers around April 1969 IIRC - I remember a Heathrow visit on 13/4/69 and being somewhat dismayed when I found out. Most European operators, on the other hand, used flight numbers. Sabena were one exception who were still using registrations until at least 1977. Surprisingly, most of the US supplemental carriers seemed to be using registrations - I remember hearing Overseas National DC-8's, World 707's, Capitol DC-8's and American Flyers 727's all calling with registrations on 124.6 Mhz around 1969, which was the frequency controlling what then was Amber 1 Lichfield-Daventry-Woodley and Amber 2 Detling-Brookmans Park-Daventry.
What I am looking for is any info on when UK airlines switched to flight numbers. I think most were around the mid 70's when computerised flight plans came into use. Exceptions were still about, mainly positioning sectors and training flights. Also which foreign operators still used registrations - can anyone confirm Air France used registrations and when they switched to flight numbers. I seem to remember the Tarom IL-18's operating IT flights to the UK in the early 70's were using registrations - did they also use them for their scheduled flights to the UK? Info on Adria, Condorflug and Bavaria would also be helpful.
What I am looking for is any info on when UK airlines switched to flight numbers. I think most were around the mid 70's when computerised flight plans came into use. Exceptions were still about, mainly positioning sectors and training flights. Also which foreign operators still used registrations - can anyone confirm Air France used registrations and when they switched to flight numbers. I seem to remember the Tarom IL-18's operating IT flights to the UK in the early 70's were using registrations - did they also use them for their scheduled flights to the UK? Info on Adria, Condorflug and Bavaria would also be helpful.
My recollection was that it was Edgar Raffles. Call sign Raffles Zulu Charlie. AFAIK he flew to ‘work’ at Manchester every day leaving ‘LAP’ about 8.00 and returning around 18.30.
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How do you think controllers learn to pronounce a new callsign...?
Absolutely not so. AFR radio c/s that I know were being used in the '60s included AF050 L1049F KJFK to LFPO & Boeing 707 003/004 LAX, 031 CYUL, 015, 017 & 077 KJFK. I have radio logs from the '60s with these call signs. We used to lie on our backs trying to read the Regs off from under the wings of the Connies (because their r/t call sign was the flight number), & we used to write off to AF Ops to get the regs of the 707s (because the a/c used a Flight No. as the radio c/s).
I absolutely KNOW that this was the case. I would not have been confusing this with the early '70s as I had stopped a/c spotting in '68.
Although, I do have a memory of AF Viscounts on the Paris to Brest route using their registrations. Maybe there was a selective use of registrations on some routes & flight numbers on others. Certainly, those jet flights over the Channel Islands in the '60s used flight numbers.
I absolutely KNOW that this was the case. I would not have been confusing this with the early '70s as I had stopped a/c spotting in '68.
Although, I do have a memory of AF Viscounts on the Paris to Brest route using their registrations. Maybe there was a selective use of registrations on some routes & flight numbers on others. Certainly, those jet flights over the Channel Islands in the '60s used flight numbers.
Last edited by kcockayne; 13th Mar 2018 at 23:40. Reason: extra information.