Avro Lancastrian Tales
I noticed in the picture linked to by WHBM, that EAS has a sunshade in the cockpit roof. Was that a QANTAS mod or did other Lancastrians have it?
I noticed in the picture linked to by WHBM, that EAS has a sunshade in the cockpit roof. Was that a QANTAS mod or did other Lancastrians have it?
Also - for those with plenty of money there are two BSAA Log Books of a Radio Officer on sale on eBay at £400 each.
Mike
QANTAS Lancastrians flew from Sydney to Gawler, stopping in Adelaide for refuelling, and on to Learmonth for the overnight stage. On the next leg of the trip, they flew to Ratmalana, where the aircraft refuelled, then on to Karachi, where BOAC crews took over for the final segment of the journey to the UK. The lengthening of the runway at Ratmalana enabled the diversion to Minneria to be eliminated, and soon Ratmalana was replaced by RAF Negombo. The service was renamed the Kangaroo Service and the passenger award became The Order of the Longest Hop. It was on this route that the Kangaroo logo was first used. After the war, the return trip could also go from Colombo to the Cocos Islands, then to Perth on to Sydney. These flights continued until 5 April 1946.
In 1947 flights to Tokyo via Darwin and Manila began. The DC-4 took over in 1949 I think. Don't know how many were converted to the Constellation engine transport role.
Dave, EAV was written off during a take off at Sydney 17 Nov 1951. EAU was scrapped Sep 1952, same date for EAT. Link here may be of interest.
http://www.airspacemag.com/history-o...959770/?no-ist
In 1947 flights to Tokyo via Darwin and Manila began. The DC-4 took over in 1949 I think. Don't know how many were converted to the Constellation engine transport role.
Dave, EAV was written off during a take off at Sydney 17 Nov 1951. EAU was scrapped Sep 1952, same date for EAT. Link here may be of interest.
http://www.airspacemag.com/history-o...959770/?no-ist
Last edited by megan; 2nd Nov 2016 at 20:02. Reason: More Info
QANTAS Lancastrians flew from Sydney to Gawler, stopping in Adelaide for refuelling, and on to Learmonth for the overnight stage. On the next leg of the trip, they flew to Ratmalana, where the aircraft refuelled, then on to Karachi, where BOAC crews took over for the final segment of the journey to the UK. The lengthening of the runway at Ratmalana enabled the diversion to Minneria to be eliminated, and soon Ratmalana was replaced by RAF Negombo. The service was renamed the Kangaroo Service and the passenger award became The Order of the Longest Hop. It was on this route that the Kangaroo logo was first used. After the war, the return trip could also go from Colombo to the Cocos Islands, then to Perth on to Sydney. These flights continued until 5 April 1946.
Do you mean that the crews swapped at Karachi, or that the BOAC and Qantas flights connected there and both aircraft turned round? If the QF Lancastrians continued to the UK (Heathrow?) with BOAC crews, there should hopefully be some photos of them at London kicking around somewhere.
Time for a bit more research ...
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Would it have been possible to sustain a route that involved the Lancastrians flying all the way to London if there were only four aircraft in the fleet?
Since we started this discussion I have found a wide variety of references to how many Lancastrians Qantas had, from one (my original opinion from two separate sources, both hitherto reliable) to nine, with various numbers in between as well. I presume they were not all in the fleet at the same time.
Here's the BOAC timetable from September 1947 which shows the thrice-weekly Lancastrian service to Australia, with just a note that the sectors beyond Karachi are operated by Qantas, which takes a minimum of four aircraft, I presume all BOAC, to hold down the schedule, and doubtless several more with the extended maintenance and unserviceability that was standard at the time. The implication is through aircraft. Presumably with all those crew slips that would be needed (unlike the flying boat services which stopped overnight and kept the same crew for several days) it was better to crew from both ends.
http://www.timetableimages.com/ttima...47/ba47-05.jpg
BOAC bought Lockheed Constellations with scarce foreign exchange at the time on the justification that they needed them to compete with US carriers on the Transatlantic routes, but the Connies were almost immediately extended to the Australian route as well, as there was a significant passenger (and foreign exchange) loss occurring, especially from the Australian end, to Pan Am on better aircraft to go from Sydney to London via the USA.
Here's the BOAC timetable from September 1947 which shows the thrice-weekly Lancastrian service to Australia, with just a note that the sectors beyond Karachi are operated by Qantas, which takes a minimum of four aircraft, I presume all BOAC, to hold down the schedule, and doubtless several more with the extended maintenance and unserviceability that was standard at the time. The implication is through aircraft. Presumably with all those crew slips that would be needed (unlike the flying boat services which stopped overnight and kept the same crew for several days) it was better to crew from both ends.
http://www.timetableimages.com/ttima...47/ba47-05.jpg
BOAC bought Lockheed Constellations with scarce foreign exchange at the time on the justification that they needed them to compete with US carriers on the Transatlantic routes, but the Connies were almost immediately extended to the Australian route as well, as there was a significant passenger (and foreign exchange) loss occurring, especially from the Australian end, to Pan Am on better aircraft to go from Sydney to London via the USA.
Since we started this discussion I have found a wide variety of references to how many Lancastrians Qantas had, from one (my original opinion from two separate sources, both hitherto reliable) to nine, with various numbers in between as well. I presume they were not all in the fleet at the same time.
Here's the BOAC timetable from September 1947 which shows the thrice-weekly Lancastrian service to Australia, with just a note that the sectors beyond Karachi are operated by Qantas, which takes a minimum of four aircraft, I presume all BOAC, to hold down the schedule, and doubtless several more with the extended maintenance and unserviceability that was standard at the time. The implication is through aircraft. Presumably with all those crew slips that would be needed (unlike the flying boat services which stopped overnight and kept the same crew for several days) it was better to crew from both ends.
Here's the BOAC timetable from September 1947 which shows the thrice-weekly Lancastrian service to Australia, with just a note that the sectors beyond Karachi are operated by Qantas, which takes a minimum of four aircraft, I presume all BOAC, to hold down the schedule, and doubtless several more with the extended maintenance and unserviceability that was standard at the time. The implication is through aircraft. Presumably with all those crew slips that would be needed (unlike the flying boat services which stopped overnight and kept the same crew for several days) it was better to crew from both ends.
) and answering my own question from earlier, he confirms that BOAC's 21 Lancastrians"were for joint use with Qantas on the Kangaroo service, British crews being relieved by Australians at Karachi"
AJJ also confirms that there were only 4 VH-registered Lancastrians, with no mention of whether they were also used on the Kangaroo route.
My understanding is that the crews swapped aircraft ie BOAC crew flew the QANTAS aircraft on to London, and the QANTAS crew flew the BOAC aircraft to Sydney. That seems to be confirmed by the above photo of a BOAC aircraft parked at the QANTAS Sydney facility. BOAC at the time was a major shareholder in QANTAS, which was relinquished when QANTAS was nationalised.
That doesn't preclude the possibility that it was only BOAC's 20-odd Lancastrians that were used on the route. Obviously there would be one BOAC aircraft originating in Sydney, crewed by Qantas, for every one that left London.
We need to unearth a photo like yours, but of one of the four Qantas aircraft at Heathrow.
The joint BOAC/Qantas UK/Australia service (initially from Hurn) started in May 1945. But the Qantas's own four ex-BOAC Lancastrians didn't arrive until mid/late 1947/early 1948, by which time Qantas had bought four Lockheed 749 Constellations, which inaugurated its own badged Sydney/Heathrow service in December 1947. Its own Lancastrians appear to have been used on other Asian routes such as Tokyo and Manila.
Some nice footage of Connies on the Kangaroo route here: The Longest Hop - Qantas' Kangaroo Route
The original newspaper article is of such poor resolution I don't think it worth posting. But it concerns the loss of BOAC G-AGLX which was lost without trace on a flight between Sri Lanka and the Cocos Islands on the 23 Mar 1946. As you can see it was crewed by QANTAS. My earlier about flights to Tokyo were not general airline flights, but on behalf of the RAAF supporting our occupation forces.
The Geraldton Guardian and Express 27 Mar 1946
The Geraldton Guardian and Express 27 Mar 1946
Missing Air Liner
MISSING AIR LINE EXTENSIVE SEARCH
NO SIGNS REPORTED
VAST AREA OF OCEAN SCANNED
Perth. March 27
While the search for the missing Qantas Lancastrian and its ten occupants is proceeding in the sector north-west of Cocos Island — where the plane was last reported— the search on Australia-Cocos section -- of the route has
been intensified by the addition of another civil aircraft. Fifteen planes operating from Ceylon, Cocos, Learmonth, Darwin and Java are covering a huge area of the Indian Ocean in an effort to locate either the plane or its
dinghies. No further radio signal has been picked up and the effort to locate the source of those heard faintly on Sunday night has not been successful.
Planes searching the ocean, along ihe known route and on the route planned, yesterday spent a fruitless day. Coast watchers and those on the sea had nothing to report and there were no further unexplained radio signals to provide a clue to the whereabouts of the G-AGLX or its survivors. Nevertheless, the search is being pressed with additional searchers concentrating on the Cocos Learmonth section of the route, since Capt. Frank Thomas, commander of the G-AGLX, made his pre-flight plan with Leurmonth as his alternative land fall should he have to by-pass Cocos Island for any reason. The occurence which shut down his radio between 6 p.m. and 6.3O p.m. on Saturday night might also have caused him to exclude Cocos and choose Learmonth as his objective.
This morning at 6 o'clock the Mac-Robertson-Miller Aviation Company Ltd. at the request of Qantas, dispatched a DH-86 aircraft under the command of Capt. J. Woods to Learmonth. From that point Capt. Woods will examine the coast and areas of the ocean for signs of the missing plane or its personnel. Qantas as has delayed movement of its aircraft on the Australia-England service so that they will traverse the search area in daylight. Altogether there are now fifteen air craft, including three R.A.A.F. planes, two Catalinas and a Liberator occupied in scouring the ocean and adjacent coasts.
Three of the five passengers on the missing Lancastrian are Sydney business men. All five members of the crew are from New South Wales and four of them have Sydney suburban addresses
MISSING AIR LINE EXTENSIVE SEARCH
NO SIGNS REPORTED
VAST AREA OF OCEAN SCANNED
Perth. March 27
While the search for the missing Qantas Lancastrian and its ten occupants is proceeding in the sector north-west of Cocos Island — where the plane was last reported— the search on Australia-Cocos section -- of the route has
been intensified by the addition of another civil aircraft. Fifteen planes operating from Ceylon, Cocos, Learmonth, Darwin and Java are covering a huge area of the Indian Ocean in an effort to locate either the plane or its
dinghies. No further radio signal has been picked up and the effort to locate the source of those heard faintly on Sunday night has not been successful.
Planes searching the ocean, along ihe known route and on the route planned, yesterday spent a fruitless day. Coast watchers and those on the sea had nothing to report and there were no further unexplained radio signals to provide a clue to the whereabouts of the G-AGLX or its survivors. Nevertheless, the search is being pressed with additional searchers concentrating on the Cocos Learmonth section of the route, since Capt. Frank Thomas, commander of the G-AGLX, made his pre-flight plan with Leurmonth as his alternative land fall should he have to by-pass Cocos Island for any reason. The occurence which shut down his radio between 6 p.m. and 6.3O p.m. on Saturday night might also have caused him to exclude Cocos and choose Learmonth as his objective.
This morning at 6 o'clock the Mac-Robertson-Miller Aviation Company Ltd. at the request of Qantas, dispatched a DH-86 aircraft under the command of Capt. J. Woods to Learmonth. From that point Capt. Woods will examine the coast and areas of the ocean for signs of the missing plane or its personnel. Qantas as has delayed movement of its aircraft on the Australia-England service so that they will traverse the search area in daylight. Altogether there are now fifteen air craft, including three R.A.A.F. planes, two Catalinas and a Liberator occupied in scouring the ocean and adjacent coasts.
Three of the five passengers on the missing Lancastrian are Sydney business men. All five members of the crew are from New South Wales and four of them have Sydney suburban addresses
Missing Plane
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Yes, very interesting. I hadn't heard of that particular loss before.
I didn't even know where the Cocos Islands were until about a month ago when reading about the disappearance of a RAF Liberator operating from there in 1945.
I don't know if I would have been brave enough to go long-haul flying over vast stretches of water in those days.
I didn't even know where the Cocos Islands were until about a month ago when reading about the disappearance of a RAF Liberator operating from there in 1945.
I don't know if I would have been brave enough to go long-haul flying over vast stretches of water in those days.
Since reading this thread on Lancastrian operations England to Australia, it made me wonder if there was any record of the number of occasions an engine was shut down in flight during the whole period the thread has covered.
The reason I am interested if these figures were ever recorded, was that I had extensive piloting experience on flying the RAAF Avro Lincoln within Australia and up to Manus Island north of New Guinea. We had the Rolls Royce Merlin 85 and 102 versions.
During the 3000 hours I flew on type in the 1950's, I counted 32 occasions where in flight engine shut-down was required either because of engine failure or precautionary shut down due to coolant leaks. And that was just my personal events; not counting the engine shut downs by other pilots.
If the Lancastrians had a similar shut down rate during their period of operation, the maintenance costs must have been substantial as well as the overall costs associated with aircraft AOG en-route awaiting a spare engine.
The reason I am interested if these figures were ever recorded, was that I had extensive piloting experience on flying the RAAF Avro Lincoln within Australia and up to Manus Island north of New Guinea. We had the Rolls Royce Merlin 85 and 102 versions.
During the 3000 hours I flew on type in the 1950's, I counted 32 occasions where in flight engine shut-down was required either because of engine failure or precautionary shut down due to coolant leaks. And that was just my personal events; not counting the engine shut downs by other pilots.
If the Lancastrians had a similar shut down rate during their period of operation, the maintenance costs must have been substantial as well as the overall costs associated with aircraft AOG en-route awaiting a spare engine.
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As much as the RR Merlin is venerated, it should also be cursed. In multi-engine ops, a precautionary shut-down of a Rolls Royce Merlin engine was almost routine and not unexpected. A precautionary shut-down of a Rolls Royce Merlin may have caused the demise of Trans Canada Air Lines Flight 810, nearly 60 years ago.
I found an article stating that the Qantas Lancastrians, which don't appear in any old Qantas timetable I have seen, were employed on RAAF charters for the Australian occupation forces in Japan, starting in late 1947 which seems shortly after they were bought from BOAC. They had supplementary military roundels which were a requirement of the occupation area, which probably precluded them from being rotated with any mainstream scheduled operation. I suspect they had a bit more than the 9 sideways-facing seats as well.
Warbird Information Exchange ? View topic - Avro Lancastrian VH-EAU
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