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Gustave Whitehead: First in Flight breaking news

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Gustave Whitehead: First in Flight breaking news

Old 10th Jun 2015, 05:13
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Gustave Whitehead: First in Flight breaking news

Still think the Wrights flew first? A new book, "Gustave Whitehead: First in Flight" details new discoveries to add to the extensive evidence concerning the aeroplane inventor's successful powered flights in 1901, with new revelations about the Wright brothers and how their vise-like grip on aviation history occurred. This book counters the widespread misinformation about Whitehead on the Internet. A reviewer says, "This is a most extraordinary book, not just because of the historical importance of the subject matter, but also because of the thoroughly documented case that leaves no doubt that the Wright brothers were not the First to Fly."
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 07:51
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Give us a link, I can find no such book. Well, I did find one, but nothing to do with Whitehead.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 09:55
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Was his flight sustained, controlled, documented and repeated?

I'll stick with the Wrights, thank you.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 10:26
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Do not feed the trolls, please

We've been round this hamster wheel before. There could be an interesting discussion about the various contributions of the pioneers (amongst whom Whitehead is NOT to be numbered), but this is just another outcrop of some strange obsession with denigrating the Wrights. It's probably all the fault of the Illuminati, or Skull and Bones.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 11:46
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I have to declare an interest - the 'pioneer' period is the one that overrides all others for me. Bookcase and my ruthlessly hoarded wood, plans, tools and materials all point to a busy retirement when it comes.........

I know that this isn't the period for most people but to gauge the water and give a gentle assist our one topic wonder ain't playing on this thread.

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Old 10th Jun 2015, 18:11
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The username might give a clue as to a motive to attempt to denigrate other early aviators.
But this book would definitely be in the 'fiction' category
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 19:51
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But this book would definitely be in the 'fiction' category
The "review" quoted in post #1 also seems to be a figment of the OP's imagination.
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Old 10th Jun 2015, 20:51
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We've been round this hamster wheel before.
Haven't we just!
Seemingly nothing new here regarding Whitehead's claims ( or those of the Wrights for that matter) since the last discussion petered out.
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Old 11th Jun 2015, 02:17
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Had to wonder what answer the OP may have come up with re my question. The title of the book he quotes is actually about the Wrights. Obviously stopped his meds.
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Old 11th Jun 2015, 08:08
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OK, I stand corrected - the newly-published book does exist:

Some amusing reviews on Amazon, for example:

"This book captures the full flavor of The Whitehead Myth, with an impressive amount of material, both pertinent and off-center. The author presents very little that wasn't already known to those who have researched this matter, and much of what is included is not what serious scholars and historians would term "evidence."

Drawing on her father's archive of Whitehead material, it was possible new and compelling material would be included, but that appears to not be so. It is dated in crucial areas - for instance there's no mention that in April 2015 IHS/Jane's disowned the pro-Whitehead editorial which appeared in the March 2013 Jane's All The World's Aircraft.

The Whitehead's "flights" of 1901 and 1902 were certainly myths and fabrications. As a gathering of support for the Whitehead claims, this book is about as good as one will ever be, but it does not make a persuasive case.

Of course, it's difficult to prove a falsehood"
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Old 11th Jun 2015, 09:35
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To be fair, you have selected the one negative review. There are three positive ones, such as;

This is a most extraordinary book, not just because of the historical importance of the subject matter, but also because of the thoroughly documented case that leaves no doubt that the Wright brothers were not the First to Fly.

Susan Brinchman has done a first class job of research and writing. Her work will stand the test of time. Scholars and schoolboys and aviation fans the world over should read this essential true history of those first moments in man's ascent into the skies.
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Old 11th Jun 2015, 11:18
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Everything depends on which criteria you use to define human flight:

witnessed, lighter-than-air, heavier-than-air, powered, unassisted, controlled, sustained, survived, soaring, repeated.

The first four of those were met (in chronological order) by the Montgolfier Brothers, Sir Geroge Cayley's gliders, Otto Lillienthal's gliders, Clement Ader and arguably a few others. Any claim not witnessed has to be considered as dubious.

"Unassisted" (no fortuitous bump on take-off run, no gradient, wind or mechanism) seems to be open to debate, requiring careful measurement and reliable, impartial witnesses.

"Controlled" is normally taken to mean "3 Axis Control", yet plenty of known aircraft fly without 3 AC by body movement or 2AC; some military planes only fly thanks to high speed computers. IMO, this means that "Controlled" has questionable relevance as a criterion, certainly since Lillienthal's glides.

"Sustained" and "Soaring" seem to me to be debatable, and also reliant on witnesses, who themselves are not always fully reliable.

"Survived" is obvious!

"Repeated" can be debated if not witnessed.

The debate will never end!
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Old 11th Jun 2015, 13:13
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As everyone engaged in aircraft manufacturing, testing and maintenance knows:

"The Job's Not Done Until the Paperwork's Done"

The Wright's documented everything. They did wind tunnel testing on their aerofoil designs - building their own wind tunnel to do so in the process. They kept their records for examination and did a professional job.

Other claimants may have flown before them, but in the event they failed in the follow-up - their design and development paperwork simply wasn't up to scratch.
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Old 11th Jun 2015, 19:15
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...and that is possibly the saddest indictment of aviation's worst woe I have ever read.
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Old 11th Jun 2015, 20:43
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More like a few too many sherries.
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Old 11th Jun 2015, 21:54
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I didn't say it was true. Food for thought, certainly.
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Old 12th Jun 2015, 00:53
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I think that Gustave Whitehead was the first, but that it will never be possible to prove it;

Gustave Whitehead - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 12th Jun 2015, 03:08
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The Wright's documented everything.
Spot on Blacksheep. Disregarding everything else, this is where the Wrights claim stands the test of time. The Fédération Aéronautique Internationale will not accept any claim unless it is supported by
How to set a record - The following information is valid for World and Continental Records of all sports and disciplines.

Check on the FAI record pages what the best previous performance is, if any, for the record you would like to set. Do not forget to check the record claims pending homologation.
Review the FAI Sporting Code, General Section and relevant Specialised Section, to get an understanding of the rules and documentation requirements.
For the definition of the course used for your record attempt, you will need the exact distance given by the World Distance Calculator.
Obtain an FAI sporting license from your National Airsport Control Organisation (NAC) if you do not already hold a valid one.
Your flight or jump will have to be properly monitored and controlled. Determine with your NAC who will serve as Official Observer(s). If the flight is a 'speed over a recognised course' record between 2 airports, each with a control tower, the tower personnel are entitled to certify the times of start and finish.
You should get in touch with your Official Observer(s) to discuss the flight or jump and the procedures for documenting the record.
The fun part.... you make the performance !
Within 7 days of the record attempt, FAI must be officially notified that the flight or jump was successful and provided with basic details of the performance, preferably using the Standard Preliminary Claim Form. Fax or email are acceptable.
Send your NAC the complete details of the flight or jump (on the prescribed forms if applicable) including any evidence required such as photographs, barograms.
After your NAC receives and reviews the documentation file, your record should be certified as a National Record.
If a World or Continental Record is being claimed, your NAC must then forward a complete dossier containing the original evidence to FAI in Lausanne within 120 days requesting that FAI approves the record as a World or Continental Record.
Please note that FAI charges NACs an administrative fee of CHF 200 for processing each World or Continental record dossier. NACs may decide to pass this charge on to claimants.
History of the FAI. It seems from the earliest days people were cognisant of the issues surrounding claims of who did what, and the need of proof to back up those claims.
At the start of the 20th Century, the pioneering flights of pilots such as Clement Ader, the Wright Brothers and Santos-Dumont, the proliferation of aeronautical competitions, and increasingly rapid technological advances marked the real birth of the modern aviation era.

A small group of men recognized the growing need for an international federation to coordinate and give direction to the rapidly growing aeronautical activity.

On 10 June 1905, Count Henri de la Vaulx, Vice President of the Aero Club of France, Major Moedebeck of the German Airship League and Fernand Jacobs, President of the Aero Club of Belgium, gave a presentation to the Olympic Congress of Brussels on their proposal for a "Fédération Aéronautique Internationale". The delegates received the idea warmly, and in token of its support the Olympic Congress adopted thefollowing resolution:"This Congress, recognizing the special importance of aeronautics, expresses the desire that in each country, there be created an Association for regulating the sport of flying and that thereafter there be formed a Universal Aeronautical Federation to regulate the various aviation meetings and advance the science and sport of Aeronautics."

On 12 October 1905, an international aeronautical conference was convened in Paris. After two days of debate, the representatives of Belgium, France, Germany, Great Britain, Italy, Spain, Switzerland and the USA adopted the entire package of proposed Statutes. The Fédération Aéronautique Internationale was founded on 14 October 1905. From its inception, the FAI defined its principal aims as being to"methodically catalogue the best performances achieved, so that they be known to everybody; to identify their distinguishing features so as to permit comparisons to be made; and to verify evidence and thus ensure that record-holders have undisputed claims to their titles." The statutes also specified that each body holding sporting powers (i.e. the national members of FAI) should retain full and autonomous control over its own affairs.
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Old 12th Jun 2015, 04:11
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it seems to me there was another thread like this from some troll with nothing to do in alaska.

much has been said about old gustav. even "JANES" made a big thing about it, even though "JANES" (the airplane, aeroplane, flhying machine part) wasn't published until 6 years after the WRIGHTs flew.

Let's think about this. The Wrights were secretive with some advice from the best patent attorney in ohio. But with their French triumphs they were well known. did gustav complain then?


Did someone in the great state of Connecticut contact the state legislation THEN (circa 1908/1909) to pass a statement of first flight? NO.

Did old Gustav get in his plane and circle a major city dropping leaflets saying: I WAS FIRST THE WRIGHTS AREN'T RIGHT. NO.

Is Gustav's picture on my airman's certificate as issued by the FAA. NO, its the WRIGHTs, not GUSTAV.

Is there a giant park maintained by the Federal Govt of the USA to celebrate Gustav? NO.
To the Wrights? YES.

Did the apollo astronauts take a piece of Gustav's plane to the moon ? No...but the Wrights were so honored.

This gustav thing is someone's idea of making money, not correcting the wrongs of history.

If you put an engine, a prop, a fuel tank on a barn door it will probably jump up into the air. But you can't make it really fly .

and if you want to really say who was first in flight, wasn't it Dadelus?

IF there was an aeronautical mount rushmore, Wilbur, Orville, Charles Lindbergh and James Doolittle would be on it. NO GUSTAV
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Old 12th Jun 2015, 08:04
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megan, nice bit about FAI but the FAI didn't get going until two years after the Wright Brothers' first flights and a few more years after Gustave's alleged flights.
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