Canberra or RB57
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By gee, you guys must have a better pic than the one I'm getting.
All I can see of the Boeing on the hardstand is the left wing outboard of #2 engine.
As for those aircraft behind the C131, identification is difficult from the best image I've got.
Well then, Haraka, the provenance of the 504, Spad and Flyer is going to be interesting.
EDIT: OK treadi, I'll grant you a B50 with the dark tail behind the C131, but the tail on the one behind the C119 doesn't look B50 - more B29, if anything.
Also, the reason for my thinking the Boeing on the hardstand is a B50/C97 is because of the engine intakes.
.
All I can see of the Boeing on the hardstand is the left wing outboard of #2 engine.
As for those aircraft behind the C131, identification is difficult from the best image I've got.
Well then, Haraka, the provenance of the 504, Spad and Flyer is going to be interesting.
EDIT: OK treadi, I'll grant you a B50 with the dark tail behind the C131, but the tail on the one behind the C119 doesn't look B50 - more B29, if anything.
Also, the reason for my thinking the Boeing on the hardstand is a B50/C97 is because of the engine intakes.
.
Last edited by Stanwell; 1st Feb 2015 at 07:01.
Evening Stanwell.
Mate, I think others are looking waaay in the background at the other B-29/tanker left of the odd-looking tailed (to my eyes) Fairchild...
I was thinking of water behind those trees? Selfridge AFB?
Wherever it is, it would have been nice to be there that day. Fascinating aircraft with few people about.
All I can see of the Boeing on the hardstand is the left wing outboard of #2 engine.
I was thinking of water behind those trees? Selfridge AFB?
Wherever it is, it would have been nice to be there that day. Fascinating aircraft with few people about.
From Wickie
In 1951, Roosevelt Field closed and plans were laid for a vast shopping center to be built on the site. Accordingly the World War I aircraft were put up for sale. The Smithsonian had already acquired three of the aircraft so Cole quickly bid his life savings for the remainder. Soon thereafter he found himself the proud owner of a SPAD XIII, Avro 504K, Curtiss Jenny, Standard J-l, Aeromarine 39B and Sopwith Snipe. He was given just thirty days to remove the aircraft from Roosevelt Field, which required nine 200-mile round trips to the family home where they were stored in abandoned chicken coops.
If the Pusher replica is the one subsequently built by Palen, then that probably puts the picture as no later than 1957. when he "crashed it at an air show". ( Where?).
In 1951, Roosevelt Field closed and plans were laid for a vast shopping center to be built on the site. Accordingly the World War I aircraft were put up for sale. The Smithsonian had already acquired three of the aircraft so Cole quickly bid his life savings for the remainder. Soon thereafter he found himself the proud owner of a SPAD XIII, Avro 504K, Curtiss Jenny, Standard J-l, Aeromarine 39B and Sopwith Snipe. He was given just thirty days to remove the aircraft from Roosevelt Field, which required nine 200-mile round trips to the family home where they were stored in abandoned chicken coops.
If the Pusher replica is the one subsequently built by Palen, then that probably puts the picture as no later than 1957. when he "crashed it at an air show". ( Where?).
Last edited by Haraka; 1st Feb 2015 at 07:12.
Morning Hakara.
Cole Palen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reading that site, do you get the impression his aircraft were stored in those chicken-coops - until 1959?
Is it possible that the three biplanes in this photo are unrelated to Palen and his future aerodrome?
Cole Palen - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reading that site, do you get the impression his aircraft were stored in those chicken-coops - until 1959?
Is it possible that the three biplanes in this photo are unrelated to Palen and his future aerodrome?
Hard to tell, but does the Curtiss look kinda small?
Tallman owned a 3/4 scale replica Curtiss, under the US Civil Air Register known as a JP-1 Pruett Pusher (see Aerofiles).
But that would make this thread's photo at least 1960.
Frank Tallman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Tallman owned a 3/4 scale replica Curtiss, under the US Civil Air Register known as a JP-1 Pruett Pusher (see Aerofiles).
But that would make this thread's photo at least 1960.
Frank Tallman - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Hi Noyade,
It's a good point and certainly there has been more than one Curtiss Pusher replica over the years.
If ,following on from the Wicki reference , you look up "Lafayette Escadrille" you will see that it was released in March 1958, so probably it was filmed in 1957.
Palen made some money by hiring some of his aircraft out for that film ( The SPAD seems to fit there) so in 1957 at least some of them weren't packed up in "chicken coops."
I think the balance of probability (and the rareness of types like the 504 in the USA) leans towards the likelihood of these being Palen's.
P.S. According to IMDB,
Shooting took place October 19 to December 8, 1956
I've now just realised , reading about the Bleriot "Penguins " built by Paul Mantz, that I saw this film in U.K. as a lad with my father. under the title "Hell Bent For Glory"
(In those days films for me usually fell in to two categories. (i) Films about aeroplanes and (ii) Films that I wasn't allowed to see .
)
It's a good point and certainly there has been more than one Curtiss Pusher replica over the years.
If ,following on from the Wicki reference , you look up "Lafayette Escadrille" you will see that it was released in March 1958, so probably it was filmed in 1957.
Palen made some money by hiring some of his aircraft out for that film ( The SPAD seems to fit there) so in 1957 at least some of them weren't packed up in "chicken coops."
I think the balance of probability (and the rareness of types like the 504 in the USA) leans towards the likelihood of these being Palen's.
P.S. According to IMDB,
Shooting took place October 19 to December 8, 1956
I've now just realised , reading about the Bleriot "Penguins " built by Paul Mantz, that I saw this film in U.K. as a lad with my father. under the title "Hell Bent For Glory"
(In those days films for me usually fell in to two categories. (i) Films about aeroplanes and (ii) Films that I wasn't allowed to see .
)
Last edited by Haraka; 1st Feb 2015 at 09:21.
I think the balance of probability (and the rareness of types like the 504 in the USA) leans towards the likelihood of these being Palen's.
Just noticed on that site another image has been uploaded, most likely from the same day, this time a Bleriot!...
Just seems strange to me that more isn't known about this event. It would have been a BIG day for Palen, no?
Cheers!
If the Pusher replica is the one subsequently built by Palen
The Dyess F-100C is actually 54-1752 painted as 54-1753. The real 54-1753, formerly at the USAF Museum, is now on display at the Southern Museum of Flight, Birmingham AL, looking distinctly tattier:
Gnome de PPRuNe
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Stanwell, agreed B-29, hadn't realised how tall the B-50's fin is!
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Off Thread
The 'enhancements' that I have done to the photo's on this thread were done with some FREE s/w called Ifranview.
It is available here: IrfanView - Official Homepage - one of the most popular viewers worldwide
I have a copy of Mike Vines book 'Return to Rhinebeck', if anyone wants scans from it, PM me.
Further Old Rhinebeck, if you are ever in the area on a Sunday in season GO!
It was the best day out I ever had in the USA.
It is available here: IrfanView - Official Homepage - one of the most popular viewers worldwide
I have a copy of Mike Vines book 'Return to Rhinebeck', if anyone wants scans from it, PM me.
Further Old Rhinebeck, if you are ever in the area on a Sunday in season GO!
It was the best day out I ever had in the USA.
The Facebook thread mentioned above suggests Stewart AFB which is near Old Rheinbeck.
Stewart is 15nm from Poughkeepsie and 30nm from Old Rheinbeck, so a manageable cross-country distance for Cole's aircraft.
Hi Noyade,
I noted your comment,
Rough and ready but should be O.K. to tell the difference :
Enlarge the image around it to also include the F 100C.
The sun is fairly high so the shadows are pretty representative.
Note the the aircraft are parked almost orthogonally to the line of folks on crowd line.
Take a ruler.
Look in to an estimated mid -fuselage shadow of the Hun and use it as an end point. ( You can't see the entire wing shadow unfortunately) . Now track along to the right parallel to the crowd line until you intersect an imaginary line coming forward from the wingtip at 90 deg to that line ( the concrete slab lines closely approximate this). Multiply this measurement by two to get full span.
Then measure the length of the shadow of the Pusher wing on the tarmac.
The Span of a Hun is around 38.75 ft - the pusher about the same if it is a full size replica : Around 28.5 ft for a 75 % item
.
P.S. Ian 16th :I have just checked out Irfan view with a designer mate in the imagery enhancement business. His comments:
Irfanview is an excellent standard tool. It has also been officially recognized by the EXIF community as a reference for EXIF metadata handling. A brilliant tool!
Many thanks Ian , I shall be downloading it .
I noted your comment,
Hard to tell, but does the Curtiss look kinda small?
Enlarge the image around it to also include the F 100C.
The sun is fairly high so the shadows are pretty representative.
Note the the aircraft are parked almost orthogonally to the line of folks on crowd line.
Take a ruler.
Look in to an estimated mid -fuselage shadow of the Hun and use it as an end point. ( You can't see the entire wing shadow unfortunately) . Now track along to the right parallel to the crowd line until you intersect an imaginary line coming forward from the wingtip at 90 deg to that line ( the concrete slab lines closely approximate this). Multiply this measurement by two to get full span.
Then measure the length of the shadow of the Pusher wing on the tarmac.
The Span of a Hun is around 38.75 ft - the pusher about the same if it is a full size replica : Around 28.5 ft for a 75 % item
.
P.S. Ian 16th :I have just checked out Irfan view with a designer mate in the imagery enhancement business. His comments:
Irfanview is an excellent standard tool. It has also been officially recognized by the EXIF community as a reference for EXIF metadata handling. A brilliant tool!
Many thanks Ian , I shall be downloading it .
The Facebook thread mentioned above suggests Stewart AFB
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Shadow measuring
Haraka:
Without actual measuring the shadows it's easy to see that the center of the F-100 fuselage shadow lies just as much to the left of a line between the concrete-slabs as the shadow of it's port wingtip does to the next line.
With other words, it's wingspan is equal to two concrete slabs.
The pusher is parked in a way as it is easy to tell that the port wingtip is about a yard on the inside of such line and the starboard wingtip more likely two yards inside the contemporary line - In other words: The pusher is 3 yards less wide than the Super Sabre!
Matches fine with Your estimate of about 10 feet in difference for a 75% replica!
Without actual measuring the shadows it's easy to see that the center of the F-100 fuselage shadow lies just as much to the left of a line between the concrete-slabs as the shadow of it's port wingtip does to the next line.
With other words, it's wingspan is equal to two concrete slabs.
The pusher is parked in a way as it is easy to tell that the port wingtip is about a yard on the inside of such line and the starboard wingtip more likely two yards inside the contemporary line - In other words: The pusher is 3 yards less wide than the Super Sabre!
Matches fine with Your estimate of about 10 feet in difference for a 75% replica!
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Irfan View
Irfan Wiev have been my companion since my earliest connection to the web.
It's actual less than ten days since I told my daughter about it for simple picture handling as her Open Office couldn't do the simple task of rotating pictures and scale them down to only neccesary size to able a document with several pictures to be E-mailed:-o
Sadly it's not available for the Ipad on wich the majority of my IT-work is done these days, but at least the original picture program have the most common features.
It's actual less than ten days since I told my daughter about it for simple picture handling as her Open Office couldn't do the simple task of rotating pictures and scale them down to only neccesary size to able a document with several pictures to be E-mailed:-o
Sadly it's not available for the Ipad on wich the majority of my IT-work is done these days, but at least the original picture program have the most common features.