Netherlands Naval fatalities in Cheshire
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cheshire, California, Geneva, and Paris
Age: 67
Posts: 867
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Netherlands Naval fatalities in Cheshire
I was visiting a local cemetery in Appleton Thorn in Cheshire recently and saw there was two Dutch pilots buried there who were killed in March 1944 in a mid-air collision between two Fairey Barracudas and apparently they crashed into or near to Great Budworth Mere near to Northwich.
Does anyone know how I might find out more about the accident or the two pilots concerned?
Does anyone know how I might find out more about the accident or the two pilots concerned?
"A lasting memorial to HMS Blackcap and those who served there can be found in the graveyard at St Cross Church, Appleton, being the graves of personnel who were killed at Blackcap whilst serving there. It includes two graves of two young Free Dutch Naval Officers serving in the Fleet Air Arm, killed when their planes collided over Budworth Mere whilst practicing for the D Day Landings.
There is a lovely story attached to these two graves, for on every Remembrance Day there appears two crosses of Poppies on their graves with a handwritten note pf condolence in Flemish, although it is known that they have no living relatives, somebody places the crosses there."
See New Page 1
The Dutch war graves commission lists only one grave at St Cross: Petrus Johannes Huijer, and the 15 March 1944 date fits, but the record shows he was killed in Hellcat JV161 at Stretton (also a mid-air, with JV166 of the same unit, 1840 Sqn, flown by Alexander Joseph Smith who is also buried at Appleton Thorn, but born in Java and so presumably not a Dutch national).
So unless there were two mid-airs involving Dutch pilots in the same month, the reference to Barracudas sounds suspect.
OGS slachtofferregister
Dutch FAA aviators killed or missing
There is a lovely story attached to these two graves, for on every Remembrance Day there appears two crosses of Poppies on their graves with a handwritten note pf condolence in Flemish, although it is known that they have no living relatives, somebody places the crosses there."
See New Page 1
The Dutch war graves commission lists only one grave at St Cross: Petrus Johannes Huijer, and the 15 March 1944 date fits, but the record shows he was killed in Hellcat JV161 at Stretton (also a mid-air, with JV166 of the same unit, 1840 Sqn, flown by Alexander Joseph Smith who is also buried at Appleton Thorn, but born in Java and so presumably not a Dutch national).
So unless there were two mid-airs involving Dutch pilots in the same month, the reference to Barracudas sounds suspect.
OGS slachtofferregister
Dutch FAA aviators killed or missing
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: England
Age: 65
Posts: 303
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Java was part of the Dutch colonies, (Dutch East Indies), much the same as India to us.
We had many 'Englishmen' born in India and the it's highly likely that someone with a Dutch name born in Java pre-war was was a Dutch National.
We had many 'Englishmen' born in India and the it's highly likely that someone with a Dutch name born in Java pre-war was was a Dutch National.
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: UK
Posts: 3,325
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just in case anyone doesn't know, HMS Blackcap was RNAS Stretton. When the M56 motorway was built it cut through the airfield, but there is still an extensive length of runway left, not used regularly by aeroplanes for many decades. What a waste in a heavily-populated area with a dire lack of GA airfields.
it's highly likely that someone with a Dutch name born in Java pre-war was was a Dutch National
OGS slachtofferregister
Here are their graves:
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Cheshire, California, Geneva, and Paris
Age: 67
Posts: 867
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gents.
Thanks for all your help.
The area around Great Budworth mere is beautiful and attracts many people to the local Country Park on the southern shore of the mere and if the crash was at the mere and particularly if these two young men have no descendants I think it is right that their sacrifice should be acknowledged by the erection of a memorial to them and their comrades.
It is my intention to write to the local newspaper to see if there were any eyewitnesses to the accident but I wondered if there would be a more authoritative source that would identify the actual site and how I would access it?
Thanks for all your help.
The area around Great Budworth mere is beautiful and attracts many people to the local Country Park on the southern shore of the mere and if the crash was at the mere and particularly if these two young men have no descendants I think it is right that their sacrifice should be acknowledged by the erection of a memorial to them and their comrades.
It is my intention to write to the local newspaper to see if there were any eyewitnesses to the accident but I wondered if there would be a more authoritative source that would identify the actual site and how I would access it?
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: UK
Age: 68
Posts: 736
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The Fleet Air Arm might be worth contacting, they probably have a records department.
My Dad's final training was in Barracudas and he was waiting in port for an aircraft carrier to take him to the Pacific when they up and ended the war.
When diving to a practice target he enjoyed standing up and looking over the pilot's head.
There are some remains of a Barracuda at the Fleet Air Arm Museum in Yeovilton.
My Dad's final training was in Barracudas and he was waiting in port for an aircraft carrier to take him to the Pacific when they up and ended the war.
When diving to a practice target he enjoyed standing up and looking over the pilot's head.
There are some remains of a Barracuda at the Fleet Air Arm Museum in Yeovilton.
but I wondered if there would be a more authoritative source that would identify the actual site and how I would access it?
Having said that, the mid-air was probably at a relatively low altitude, as reportedly Huijer was killed after bailing out too close to the ground. Smith, on the other hand, died in his burning Hellcat.
My immediately family is local to that area. I asked around but no one knows anything about this event, however my Mum did come up with this...
HMS Blackcap
Lots of photos old and new.
HMS Blackcap
Lots of photos old and new.
Another anecdote from someone who was there.
This was from a distant friend of a family friend who now lives in Essex.
When the aircraft crashed on the field at the end of the avenue, a number of people from the village (including me) went to the crash site, we stood around the crater watching it burn, we heard a hissing noise, someone shouted get down on the grass, every one fell to the ground not knowing what was going on, there was a loud bang, it was thought to have been a tyre bursting. Shortly after the crash a twin engined aircraft landed in the field, maybe to see if the pilot had survived. This pilot was found in the wreckage, the other pilot bailed out, but was too low for his parachute to open.
This is the memory of a 7 year old boy at the time. Now I can't remember what happened last week.
I did know a pilot who had flown Hawker Sea Fury’s from HMS Blackcap, this was after the war.
This is the memory of a 7 year old boy at the time. Now I can't remember what happened last week.
I did know a pilot who had flown Hawker Sea Fury’s from HMS Blackcap, this was after the war.
Harry *******, who worked in our department in London was a FAA pilot at HMS Blackcap at the end of the war and I passed the booklets on to him, unfortunately I don’t think that he is still alive. Harry told me that as well as the FAA squadrons based at Stretton or those waiting to fly out to aircraft carriers there was also a Ferry squadron which Harry belonged to. American aircraft destined for the FAA would be shipped across the Atlantic in crates to Liverpool and then transferred to Burtonwood where they would be assembled and test flown. Pilots from the Ferry squadron would then collect the aircraft from Burtonwood and fly them to the FAA base where they were required. A small amphibian Sea Otter, similar to a Walrus but without the pusher engine, was usually used to move the Ferry pilots around.
I've lived in Northwich all my life and this is the first I've heard of this incident. I'll ask around.
Far more common in local WWII parlance are the Luftwaffe aircraft that came down near the old Octel factory. The story goes that some of the surviving crew had to be rescued from locals armed with pitchforks!
I'm also aware of an aircraft (RAF training flight?) that crashed into land opposite Hartford shops. This land is currently being developed for houses and there was some recent controversy as to its safety due to the crash, probably unfounded.
Far more common in local WWII parlance are the Luftwaffe aircraft that came down near the old Octel factory. The story goes that some of the surviving crew had to be rescued from locals armed with pitchforks!
I'm also aware of an aircraft (RAF training flight?) that crashed into land opposite Hartford shops. This land is currently being developed for houses and there was some recent controversy as to its safety due to the crash, probably unfounded.
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Berkshire
Age: 80
Posts: 118
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Gentlemen
Would you consider this site with the 2 graves as a "war memorial"
If so is it listed as such ?
If not, I am a volunteer for War Memorials Archive and given as much information as possible, will register it.
It then will appear in the National Inventory of war memorials which we are updating all the time.
Would you consider this site with the 2 graves as a "war memorial"
If so is it listed as such ?
If not, I am a volunteer for War Memorials Archive and given as much information as possible, will register it.
It then will appear in the National Inventory of war memorials which we are updating all the time.
Quote:
The story goes that some of the surviving crew had to be rescued from locals armed with pitchforks!
Nothing much changed in Northwich, then.
The story goes that some of the surviving crew had to be rescued from locals armed with pitchforks!
Nothing much changed in Northwich, then.
Quote:
Nothing much changed in Northwich, then.
Could be worse, they could've come down in Winsford
Nothing much changed in Northwich, then.
Could be worse, they could've come down in Winsford
DC 10:
Try the Northwich Guardian. There are plenty of people who seem to pop up when ever information on past times is requested - good luck!
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Winsford
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As the person who has adopted the war grave of Alexander Joseph Smith I am happy to tell you more if you wish to know more. My dad has also adopted the grave right next to mine, he was a dutchman so decided to adopt it.
