Short Stirling
VX275,
A small clarification if I may. The Stirling could not operate with the Hamilcar glider. This required the Lancaster or Halifax and as the former were not released for airborne forces tasks, it was the Halifax which towed the Hamilcar to war, mainly the Mark III version with Hercules engines.
By this stage, the tugs and gliders operated from the same bases and the working relationships which built up between the crews was impressive.
After Arnhem and the very heavy losses of glider pilots, 1200 RAF pilots were trained and seconded to the Glider Pilot Regiment and formed about half the glider pilots who flew on Op VARSITY - the Rhine Crossings.
Post war, later versions of the Halifax - A7 and A9 continued in the airborne forces support role until the arrival of the Hastings.
Old Duffer
A small clarification if I may. The Stirling could not operate with the Hamilcar glider. This required the Lancaster or Halifax and as the former were not released for airborne forces tasks, it was the Halifax which towed the Hamilcar to war, mainly the Mark III version with Hercules engines.
By this stage, the tugs and gliders operated from the same bases and the working relationships which built up between the crews was impressive.
After Arnhem and the very heavy losses of glider pilots, 1200 RAF pilots were trained and seconded to the Glider Pilot Regiment and formed about half the glider pilots who flew on Op VARSITY - the Rhine Crossings.
Post war, later versions of the Halifax - A7 and A9 continued in the airborne forces support role until the arrival of the Hastings.
Old Duffer
Hi H.H.
This fascinates me. The Halifax lingered on ( Met flying and parachute testing) until around. c.1954.
The reason I wonder, is that both of these H.P. aircraft had undercarriages " Hewn from the living rock" and to a small boy would have seemed gigantic.
Can you remember anything more ?-(or can anyone else chip in on this one?)
Cheers,
Haraka
This fascinates me. The Halifax lingered on ( Met flying and parachute testing) until around. c.1954.
The reason I wonder, is that both of these H.P. aircraft had undercarriages " Hewn from the living rock" and to a small boy would have seemed gigantic.
Can you remember anything more ?-(or can anyone else chip in on this one?)
Cheers,
Haraka
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Hi Haraka. Me again. My mother also told me it was a Stirling at Cosford. She was a bit of an aircraft-nut, and anyway there was probably a sign in front of it. As you say, puzzling. It seems Cosford at the time was home to No. 2 School of Technical Training, so an instructional airframe may make sense.
Last edited by Herod; 6th Jan 2015 at 16:10. Reason: Added No 2 SoTT
I'll agree that the Stirling wasn't used to tow Hamilcars operationally but the Stirling was capable of towing the Hamilcar. I'm fortunate to have a number of original AFEE reports and the two numbered T12 and T13 cover the trials of a Stirling Mk1 towing the Hamilcar whilst T32 covers the trials and recommendations for the Stirling Mk IV towing a Hamilcar, what the services did with them after that was their problem.
I'm glad you mentioned the Lancaster in the role of glider tug (it was also cleared for paradropping but not with as many troops as the Stirling could carry).
I'm glad you mentioned the Lancaster in the role of glider tug (it was also cleared for paradropping but not with as many troops as the Stirling could carry).
raf north creake -stirling base - now a B&B
i have just stayed at a wonderful B&B at the old control tower at RAF north creake in norfolk near wells next the sea
The Control Tower B&B. The Control Tower - old North Creake Airfield
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-C...8171932?ref=hl
it was a stirling base and was instrumental in 'window' and mandrel' countermeasures
http://shop.controltowerstays.com/pr...y-booklet.aspx
a wonderful and unique insight into WW2 bases and the stirling
they sell this book too which i have yet to read
The Control Tower B&B. Let Tyrants Tremble - The War Diaries of 199 Squadron
The Control Tower B&B. The Control Tower - old North Creake Airfield
https://www.facebook.com/pages/The-C...8171932?ref=hl
it was a stirling base and was instrumental in 'window' and mandrel' countermeasures
http://shop.controltowerstays.com/pr...y-booklet.aspx
a wonderful and unique insight into WW2 bases and the stirling
they sell this book too which i have yet to read
The Control Tower B&B. Let Tyrants Tremble - The War Diaries of 199 Squadron
Last edited by rog747; 7th Jan 2015 at 10:10.
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Actually it was closer to 2/3. My Late Father being one of the RAF Glider Pilots who took part in VARSITY.
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brokenlink
Re Russian Stirling
The Stirling Project used to have newsletters and No 10 which on its front page had a picture of a painting of a Stirling from XV Squadron returning from Turin by Philip West 04/02/43 ( which my father was also on ) had on its second page wholly devoted to this supposed Russian Stirling.
Unfortunately all these newsletters went off line when they changed website which was a pity.
The final note was from Andy Vernon Aug 2008 who as Air Attache was leaving Moscow and due to bad relations with Russia at that time ( what's new there ) said his replacement had been refused a visa. He also mentioned it was beyond the authority of the Russian Air Force to investigate. It needed to go further up the political chain.
Guess nothing more has transpired??
Re Russian Stirling
The Stirling Project used to have newsletters and No 10 which on its front page had a picture of a painting of a Stirling from XV Squadron returning from Turin by Philip West 04/02/43 ( which my father was also on ) had on its second page wholly devoted to this supposed Russian Stirling.
Unfortunately all these newsletters went off line when they changed website which was a pity.
The final note was from Andy Vernon Aug 2008 who as Air Attache was leaving Moscow and due to bad relations with Russia at that time ( what's new there ) said his replacement had been refused a visa. He also mentioned it was beyond the authority of the Russian Air Force to investigate. It needed to go further up the political chain.
Guess nothing more has transpired??
Bob Rutter
My great friend Bob Rutter was on Stirlings during the war on SOE ops. He always said that the long undercarriage was as a result of the 100 ft wingspan limitation. Seems odd if that was not in fact needed? Long u/c then caused problems on takeoff and landing (gyro effect etc. if my long-ago QFI training recalls correctly). This apparently lead to some spectacular crashes in inexperienced hands. Anyway I have some of Bob's memoirs if anybody is interested in Stirlings at war. Switches -- CONTACT.
Four Turbo,
very interested but perhaps IMHO it may be of more interest on 'Gaining a Pilot's brevet in WW2' over on the Military site. Deapite the title this Prince of threads is very wide ranging.
very interested but perhaps IMHO it may be of more interest on 'Gaining a Pilot's brevet in WW2' over on the Military site. Deapite the title this Prince of threads is very wide ranging.
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Stirlings were also built at the Metropolitan - Cammell works at Elmdon airport,Birmingham. Used to wheel them across the railway line.. via a bridge... to the airfield and then fly them away to where ever.
I had a close friend who worked there as did his Mom and Dad and future Wife. He also, at times, used to ride to work at Castle Bromwich in company with Alex Henshaw, both by bicycle.
I had a close friend who worked there as did his Mom and Dad and future Wife. He also, at times, used to ride to work at Castle Bromwich in company with Alex Henshaw, both by bicycle.
Much is made about the width of the hangars and the Stirlings wingspan. If you compare with the Lancaster and Halifax there is not much in it. I would venture that the long undercarriage has more to do with the much larger physical size of the Stirling, particularly its length, which dictates the undercarriage length to obtain the desired ground attitude.
Megan
Thanks for posting that fascinating diagram. I must admit I had no idea the Stirling was so much bigger than the Lanc or how dramatic that kind of 747 style nose compared to the squatter Halifax and Lanc. for looks I always liked the Halifax best but never seen any except the BBMF Lanc for real as too young for that (if not much else) . Be interesting to see how the B17 compares too actually.
the Lancaster with it mighty payload really was a flying bomb bay wasn't it , highlighting a terrific design job to get the weight carried with as little airframe as possible.
Thanks again
Thanks for posting that fascinating diagram. I must admit I had no idea the Stirling was so much bigger than the Lanc or how dramatic that kind of 747 style nose compared to the squatter Halifax and Lanc. for looks I always liked the Halifax best but never seen any except the BBMF Lanc for real as too young for that (if not much else) . Be interesting to see how the B17 compares too actually.
the Lancaster with it mighty payload really was a flying bomb bay wasn't it , highlighting a terrific design job to get the weight carried with as little airframe as possible.
Thanks again