Short Stirling
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Short Stirling
My late stepfather served half a tour on 7 Sqn Stirlings (previously flying in Wimpies) He then spent a rest tour helping evaluate the B17C for RAF service before heading back on ops. He was always adamant that the early Stirlings though plagued by u/c and throttle problems were far better aircraft than we now allow for he was convinced that the first production batch climbed higher faster and flew further than any of the subsequent machines.
Cookies take on this was that he thought that after Rochester had been bombed by the Luftwaffe all subsequent production a/c were built with the wing incidence slightly out and no one noticed.
Anyone out there with there have a better theory? Just down the road from out house stands a memorial to a Stirling Crew who fell to earth in 1944
Cookies take on this was that he thought that after Rochester had been bombed by the Luftwaffe all subsequent production a/c were built with the wing incidence slightly out and no one noticed.
Anyone out there with there have a better theory? Just down the road from out house stands a memorial to a Stirling Crew who fell to earth in 1944
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I am not too sure about higher and faster, but it was reported that it was much more maneuverable than the Lancaster and Halifax and was able to out turn a Hurricane in fighter affiliation exercises.
There was too little wingspan for the size of the aircraft due to the RAF's insistence that it fitted into the 100' wide hangars. That is a well known fact.
I have too heard the tale that an empty one - because of that - was really rather manouverable for an aircraft of that size.
I have too heard the tale that an empty one - because of that - was really rather manouverable for an aircraft of that size.
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Short Stirling
I have never read a single account of Stirlings flying higher, and lots of it being below the other heavies, and having to navigate through the Alps on the raids against Turin...
Specification for "Short Stirling".
Air Ministry Specification B.12/36 called for the design and development of a strategic four-engined heavy bomber that could quickly is placed into production, giving the RAF Bomber Command a high-speed aircraft capable of delivering a large bombload at long ranges. It was to be crewed by seven or eight men with defensive armament consisting of multi-gunned nose, ventral and tail turrets. The initial maximum take-off weight had to be between 48,000 lbs (21769 kg) and 53,000 lbs (24036 kg), but with the capability of that figure being increased to around 65,000 lbs (29478 kg). The weapons bays also had to be compatible with all standard RAF bomb ordnance in use at that time. The specification also demanded that the aircraft be capable of lifting off a 500 ft (152.4 m) runway and is able to clear 50 ft (15.2 m) trees at the end, with the wingspan not exceeding 100 ft (30.48 m).
It was only a couple of years ago that I noticed the Stirling had twin tailwheels. Does anyone know why?
Here's my favourite Stirling picture with Joan Hughes for scale:
Here's my favourite Stirling picture with Joan Hughes for scale:
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I am sure that TV prog about the Women Aux Pilots who flew new aircraft all over the UK to bases also mentioned they flew the Sterlings and Lancasters as well well as more mundane everyday things like Spits and Mustangs.
Peter R-B
Peter R-B
Isn't it true that the Stirling was the 1st a/c that Short's built with an undercarriage?
Includes the Silver Streak of 1920, all duralumin and claimed ( erroneously) by some sources as being the first all metal aircraft , The Springbok,Gurnard series, the Scylla airliner( bit like an H.P.42) plus various other types that had land/sea alternatives.
But I think it's fair to say that it is the flying boats and seaplanes that come first to mind.
Last edited by Haraka; 29th Dec 2014 at 09:15.
The specification also demanded that the aircraft be capable of lifting off a 500 ft (152.4 m) runway and is able to clear 50 ft (15.2 m) trees at the end, with the wingspan not exceeding 100 ft (30.48 m).
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To to the second trick it would have to get airborne in three wingspans. A Feisler Storch coudn't do that.
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That makes actually one common detail between the Halifax and the Saab Draken: Twin tailwheels :-o
http://www.flugzeuginfo.net/acimages..._karldrage.jpg ;-)
http://www.flugzeuginfo.net/acimages..._karldrage.jpg ;-)
om15,
Thanks. I wasn't aware that they were retractable.
Thanks. I wasn't aware that they were retractable.
The specification also demanded that the aircraft be capable of lifting off a 500 ft (152.4 m) runway and is able to clear 50 ft (15.2 m) trees at the end,
Dunno why they plant trees at the end of a runway, but the Stirling came up 'Short' meeting that part of the specification as I have at 57,400 lbs it took 1,160 yards to clear that big tree and at 70,000 lbs 1,380 yards.
RAF's insistence that it fitted into the 100' wide hangars.
Isn't it true that the Stirling was the 1st a/c that Short's built with an undercarriage?
And from elsewhere on the net I found this. Harris was no fan of Oswald or the Stirling?...
Harris wrote a fantastic letter to Sinclair, Secretary of State for Air, in which his opinion of the Stirling, and the Short management, and the Halifax and Handley Page are made very clear indeed.
"I understand that the Stirling is to go in favour of the Lancaster as fast as the changeover can be achieved. But it will not be fast, or achieved at all with goodwill and good intent, as long as His Majesty's Government balk at the issue of taking the Stirling management away from the incompetent drunk who at present holds our fate in his hands. The Stirling Group has now virtually collapsed. They make no worthwhile contribution to our war effort in return for their overheads."
"I understand that the Stirling is to go in favour of the Lancaster as fast as the changeover can be achieved. But it will not be fast, or achieved at all with goodwill and good intent, as long as His Majesty's Government balk at the issue of taking the Stirling management away from the incompetent drunk who at present holds our fate in his hands. The Stirling Group has now virtually collapsed. They make no worthwhile contribution to our war effort in return for their overheads."
Last edited by Noyade; 29th Dec 2014 at 20:46. Reason: Because it's easy and fun.
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Towers Senior was also 149 Squadron - arrived to Wimpeys and OCU training over to the Stirling initially at Mildenhall and later around the local satellite fields.
His ops covered everything from the earliest 1000 bomber raids through to later 'gardening' missions at low level over French rivers and estuaries which he found by far the most stressful.
It was the very earliest missions where he mentioned performance most critically. Over the Alps to bomb Northern Italy's manufacturing base.
Return fuel? Nominated bomb load? He claimed they never made the equivalent of MSA once outbound over the Alps and they never got within 30 knots of projected airspeed.
Hospitalised twice - ditching off the East Anglian coast and rescued by the Southwold lifeboat and later a delayed takeoff, overheated engines, crash after take off with bomb load blowing up. Spent a very long time at Ely after that.
Rob
His ops covered everything from the earliest 1000 bomber raids through to later 'gardening' missions at low level over French rivers and estuaries which he found by far the most stressful.
It was the very earliest missions where he mentioned performance most critically. Over the Alps to bomb Northern Italy's manufacturing base.
Return fuel? Nominated bomb load? He claimed they never made the equivalent of MSA once outbound over the Alps and they never got within 30 knots of projected airspeed.
Hospitalised twice - ditching off the East Anglian coast and rescued by the Southwold lifeboat and later a delayed takeoff, overheated engines, crash after take off with bomb load blowing up. Spent a very long time at Ely after that.
Rob
Thread Starter
Stirling Again
Hi prune towers. Possible that stepfather Flt Lt Horace Cooke DFC and your relative served together. Cookie went from 149 to 7 in late 1940. Finished the tour and wandered to I think 90 evaluating the B17 before coming back to ops on 156 where he was signals leader. Don Bennett finally threw him out after 68 ops sending him to Canada to cross train as a pilot. His verdict on the B17 was marvellous aeroplane but a lousy bomber.
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Afraid I can't check up Prangster - my dad is no longer with us and his log book went during a move across the Atlantic. Spent hour after hour poring through them but that was all before the age of 10.
Rob
Rob
His verdict on the B17 was marvellous aeroplane but a lousy bomber.