The British Aircraft Corporation TSR-2 - Excellent Documentary
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These are the books that I have on my bookshelf.
Murder of TSR-2 by Stephen Hastings
TSR-2 with Hindsight by RAF Historical Society
Phoenix into Ashes by Roland Beamont
Tarnish 6 by Frank Barnett-Jones
TSR-2 Phoenix or Folly by Frank Barnett-Jones
All of these arrive at the same conclusions.
So all of these folk are wrong and you are right?
People who were personally involved with the project are all wrong?
And a politician has never told a lie?
Controversy sells books?
Murder of TSR-2 by Stephen Hastings
TSR-2 with Hindsight by RAF Historical Society
Phoenix into Ashes by Roland Beamont
Tarnish 6 by Frank Barnett-Jones
TSR-2 Phoenix or Folly by Frank Barnett-Jones
All of these arrive at the same conclusions.
So all of these folk are wrong and you are right?
People who were personally involved with the project are all wrong?
And a politician has never told a lie?
Controversy sells books?
Last edited by ian.whalley; 12th Sep 2013 at 20:52.
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In short:-
AtomKraft - yes that's the one
Ian.whalley - Frank Barnett-Jones was indeed wrong in some respects and yes, Beamont made some assertions that were rather wide of the truth, as I've already said. Hastings was patently wrong in some respects and (as I've also said) he had a political axe to grind.
As for "TSR2 with Hindsight" that isn't a book, nor does it make any wild claims, as it's not that sort of document.
Oh, and as for politicians telling lies, we all know that they lie compulsively. But you also have to recognise that politicians always have a motive for their lies. Jenkins and Healey had no motive whatsoever, in fact I got the impression from Healey's comments that he was tired of the whole sad saga!
You're right though, controversy does sell books and that seems to be what has made TSR2 so popular for so long. But rest assured I have no interest in creating any new controversy by pointing-out the flaws in the old stories. I was paid for writing the book when it was published many moons ago, and that's it as far as I'm concerned. I have no motive in promoting it at all - I'm just keen to allow as many people as possible to learn that they've been fed a lot of nonsense on this subject for far too long
AtomKraft - yes that's the one
Ian.whalley - Frank Barnett-Jones was indeed wrong in some respects and yes, Beamont made some assertions that were rather wide of the truth, as I've already said. Hastings was patently wrong in some respects and (as I've also said) he had a political axe to grind.
As for "TSR2 with Hindsight" that isn't a book, nor does it make any wild claims, as it's not that sort of document.
Oh, and as for politicians telling lies, we all know that they lie compulsively. But you also have to recognise that politicians always have a motive for their lies. Jenkins and Healey had no motive whatsoever, in fact I got the impression from Healey's comments that he was tired of the whole sad saga!
You're right though, controversy does sell books and that seems to be what has made TSR2 so popular for so long. But rest assured I have no interest in creating any new controversy by pointing-out the flaws in the old stories. I was paid for writing the book when it was published many moons ago, and that's it as far as I'm concerned. I have no motive in promoting it at all - I'm just keen to allow as many people as possible to learn that they've been fed a lot of nonsense on this subject for far too long
Last edited by WH904; 12th Sep 2013 at 21:17.
Just two cents from this corner, but Sir George Edwards was not the type to leave a dead project lying about. When the Vickers 1000 was cancelled he was quick to order the unfinished prototype be taken apart and the jigs scrapped. That's clearly stated in his biography 'From Bouncing Bombs to Concorde'. I wouldn't be surprised if he took the same measures upon TSR-2's cancellation. That last bit is just my opinion of course 
Quick addition:
No offence, but some of those are a bit dated by now. Both the book written by WH904 and the Crowood book by Damien Burke have been extensively researched in recent years which provides for a less coloured view of the affair. My view is that with a book written in 1966 you have to take into account that it was based on the political and world views of that day. It takes more time before you can create a truly unbiased account of such an episode. Also, as stated before, a book often includes an author's opinion while with good research you can go back to primary sources, such as interviews or original documents, as WH904 has done.
Murder of TSR-2 by Stephen Hastings - 1966
TSR-2 with Hindsight by RAF Historical Society - 1998
Phoenix into Ashes by Roland Beamont - 1968
Tarnish 6 by Frank Barnett-Jones - 2008
TSR-2 Phoenix or Folly by Frank Barnett-Jones - 1994
TSR-2 with Hindsight by RAF Historical Society - 1998
Phoenix into Ashes by Roland Beamont - 1968
Tarnish 6 by Frank Barnett-Jones - 2008
TSR-2 Phoenix or Folly by Frank Barnett-Jones - 1994
Well I think it's time then to start a completely new conspiracy theory - spies from North American broke into the British design offices and photographed everything, tweaked it a little and produced their own TSR-2...
Wait a minute, maybe that's not new - didn't the Israelis do something like that with the French?
Wait a minute, maybe that's not new - didn't the Israelis do something like that with the French?
“maybe that's not new - didn't the Israelis do something like that with the French?”
No, the French did that from the British … FD2 – Mirage.
And the French were not interested in the TSR2 because they were looking to the Mirage 4.
No, the French did that from the British … FD2 – Mirage.
And the French were not interested in the TSR2 because they were looking to the Mirage 4.
