Westland Whirlwind Fighter
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Welkin (Janes All The Worlds) a high altitude fighter designed to combat possible stratospheric raids by the Luftwaffe over England at heights beyond the range of existing fighters. The entire emphasis was on attaining the highest possible ceiling, maximum possible speed and carry four 20mm cannon. Aircraft seriously handicapped by compressibility problems exacerbated by its long but thick wings. Production ended with 101 airframes, of which final 26 delivered less engines, and all but a handful going to MUs for ultimate disposal. Did not see operational service. Two models of a two seat version were built.
(Allied Aircraft Piston Engines by Graham White) The Peregrine was a promising engine by WWII standards based on the Kestrel (same bore, stroke, capacity) and was often described as a “Merlinized Kestrel” because of Merlin features incorporated into its design. Even with a high specific power of 885 HP it was inadequate for the demands of WWII combat. Numerous problems during its brief service life earned it the unflattering nickname “Pesky Peregrine”. Overheating seemed to be the main problem due to the nature of the installation in the Whirlwind. In certain flap configurations the airflow through the leading edge radiators (similar to Mosquito) was reduced. Innovations abounded in the Whirlwind such as leading edge radiators, bubble canopy and T tail. (Beags – I have faint recollection that it also had fuel tank inerting via the exhaust, the exhaust itself being dumped via the typical Merlin shrouded system.)
The Vulture was a totally new design, although often described as a doubled up Kestrel or Peregrine due to all three having the same bore and stroke.
(Bill Gunston) As WWII became increasingly likely the Royal Air Force determined that it was deficient in a powerfully armed aircraft that could undertake long-range escort duties and night-fighter operations. A requirement (F.37/35) not all that different from the German's Messerschmitt Bf-110. From a specification drawn up in 1937 came the Westland Whirlwind, a heavily armed escort fighter. It had some teething problems related to the Rolls Royce Peregrine engine (an unhappy outgrowth of the reliable Kestrel) and the fact that it's landing speed was 80 mph, which meant that it could not use the standard (short) grass field of a British aerodrome. The type was a stable and pleasant aircraft to fly and had a formidable amount of firepower for the time (four 20-mm cannons). It showed some promise in combat, however, like its German counterpart it was not agile enough to successfully combat enemy fighters. The speed quickly garnered it the nick-name Crikey, meaning "my god!" or more accurately "Christ's keys".
After some deliberation the RAF purchased only 112 and equipped only two squadrons, No.s 137 and 263, with the aircraft. After initial use as an escort fighter, it was relegated to convoy patrols and eventually as a "Whirlybomber" flying low-level "rhubarbs" with bombs and cannons against targets of opportunity in France. It was phased out of use in 1942 as better aircraft (primarily the Typhoon and Beaufighter) were being put into service that would outperform it at a lower cost. The Typhoon could carry the same armament with a single engine, and the Beaufighter was even more powerfully armed and used Bristol radial engines that were in greater supply. Also, Rolls Royce dropped the Peregine engine to focus on producing the Merlin.
(Allied Aircraft Piston Engines by Graham White) The Peregrine was a promising engine by WWII standards based on the Kestrel (same bore, stroke, capacity) and was often described as a “Merlinized Kestrel” because of Merlin features incorporated into its design. Even with a high specific power of 885 HP it was inadequate for the demands of WWII combat. Numerous problems during its brief service life earned it the unflattering nickname “Pesky Peregrine”. Overheating seemed to be the main problem due to the nature of the installation in the Whirlwind. In certain flap configurations the airflow through the leading edge radiators (similar to Mosquito) was reduced. Innovations abounded in the Whirlwind such as leading edge radiators, bubble canopy and T tail. (Beags – I have faint recollection that it also had fuel tank inerting via the exhaust, the exhaust itself being dumped via the typical Merlin shrouded system.)
The Vulture was a totally new design, although often described as a doubled up Kestrel or Peregrine due to all three having the same bore and stroke.
(Bill Gunston) As WWII became increasingly likely the Royal Air Force determined that it was deficient in a powerfully armed aircraft that could undertake long-range escort duties and night-fighter operations. A requirement (F.37/35) not all that different from the German's Messerschmitt Bf-110. From a specification drawn up in 1937 came the Westland Whirlwind, a heavily armed escort fighter. It had some teething problems related to the Rolls Royce Peregrine engine (an unhappy outgrowth of the reliable Kestrel) and the fact that it's landing speed was 80 mph, which meant that it could not use the standard (short) grass field of a British aerodrome. The type was a stable and pleasant aircraft to fly and had a formidable amount of firepower for the time (four 20-mm cannons). It showed some promise in combat, however, like its German counterpart it was not agile enough to successfully combat enemy fighters. The speed quickly garnered it the nick-name Crikey, meaning "my god!" or more accurately "Christ's keys".
After some deliberation the RAF purchased only 112 and equipped only two squadrons, No.s 137 and 263, with the aircraft. After initial use as an escort fighter, it was relegated to convoy patrols and eventually as a "Whirlybomber" flying low-level "rhubarbs" with bombs and cannons against targets of opportunity in France. It was phased out of use in 1942 as better aircraft (primarily the Typhoon and Beaufighter) were being put into service that would outperform it at a lower cost. The Typhoon could carry the same armament with a single engine, and the Beaufighter was even more powerfully armed and used Bristol radial engines that were in greater supply. Also, Rolls Royce dropped the Peregine engine to focus on producing the Merlin.
One of my old friends, the late Gp Capt John Wray DFC, flew Whirlwinds on 137 Squadron and had many super photographs of them in his album. He told me of ground attack missions in France mounted from Manston and reckoned that the aircraft was an excellent GA aircraft and a good gun platform.
He reckoned that the unavailability of RR Peregrines was the problem since the government had decided to concentrate on the mass production of RR Merlins and Bristol Hercules engines.
He reckoned that the unavailability of RR Peregrines was the problem since the government had decided to concentrate on the mass production of RR Merlins and Bristol Hercules engines.
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Conan my dear chap, please do not resurrect old threads when there one on the same subject already running. Ta!
Conan
Chris Royle:
You are a lucky chap! I have just got my latest issue of "Aeroplane Monthly" and it is chock-full of Westland Whirlwinds.
I note that Dr Alfred Price talked to Sqn Ldr John Wray DFC and confirms what John always told me about how good a platform the Whirlwind was.
John retired as Gp Capt John Wray and later earned a CBE as a result of his activity in the Conservative Party Central Office.
Can anyone tell me why it is that my latest issue of Aeroplane Monthly is marked "May, 2006" and it isn't even April yet!
You are a lucky chap! I have just got my latest issue of "Aeroplane Monthly" and it is chock-full of Westland Whirlwinds.
I note that Dr Alfred Price talked to Sqn Ldr John Wray DFC and confirms what John always told me about how good a platform the Whirlwind was.
John retired as Gp Capt John Wray and later earned a CBE as a result of his activity in the Conservative Party Central Office.
Can anyone tell me why it is that my latest issue of Aeroplane Monthly is marked "May, 2006" and it isn't even April yet!
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JW411, can't tell you why, but it has irritated me for a long time. Pilot's Christmas Quiz was in the January issue, available in late November...
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Dear contributors to this thread,
Just a short note to say thanks to you all.
I have passed all information on to Jim Munro, whose father flew Whirlwinds.
I also e mailed Niaga Dessip, who contributed to the 2002 Westland Whirlwind thread, but so far, I have not received a reply. Does anyone know if he's still around?
Best wishes,
Chris Royle
Just a short note to say thanks to you all.
I have passed all information on to Jim Munro, whose father flew Whirlwinds.
I also e mailed Niaga Dessip, who contributed to the 2002 Westland Whirlwind thread, but so far, I have not received a reply. Does anyone know if he's still around?
Best wishes,
Chris Royle
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Originally Posted by Chris Royle
And the fate of the one example that went to the USA for evaluation.
All contributions gratefully received,
Best wishes,
Chris Royle
All contributions gratefully received,
Best wishes,
Chris Royle
I think you need to ask Peter Twiss (The 1000mph Man) the question about the Whirlwind in the USA.
The extract below is from an email between myself and another Whirlwind fan from 2003
I lost contact with him shortly after this.
I was at the Shoreham aerojumble rummaging as one does, when I saw a signall books signed by peter twiss today,
So I loitered whilst this elderly gent signed a book, yep peter twiss !!!
So plucking up courage, are you peter twiss
Yes came the reply,
I wonder do you recall being at a pilots conference in Florida in '44 ?
yes, I was in America for some time, I flew a seafire and some other types at a conference.
Do you recall a whirlwind ?
Yes, lovely aeroplane to fly, twin engined , there is a story to that,
I had to pick up the a/c , can't remember where , and fly it down to the gulf of Mexico somewhere, It had short range, so there was a need to refuel on the way, I took off and shortly afterwards the compass needle fell off , so there I was in a undistinquishable environment, with no compass, but it was a lovely day , so I put the nose down and shortly found a railway line and followed it and eventually came to an airfield where I landed and borrowed a compass, and continued the flight.
( I think he said ) I later flew it to Grumman's, it was strange this little a/c in amongst all the large Grumman a/c,
The a/c was eventually laid up and the engines removed and placed in the station commanders boat !!! ( forgot the name he told me ), don't know what happened to the shell probably dumped.
I said do you recall the dates ?
Not without looking at my logbook !!!!!!!,
Can I write to you , and he gave me his address.
So end of a eventful day !!
I will be writing the letter this weekend.
Hopefully he will have the dates and descriptions of the flights in his logbook !! I will ask him about the paint scheme.
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Westlands flew a Whirlwind as a hack for a little while shortly after the war. It was registered G-AGOI and it was painted light blue with white lettering, IIRC.
Originally Posted by My Dad's Little Boy
Westlands flew a Whirlwind as a hack for a little while shortly after the war. It was registered G-AGOI and it was painted light blue with white lettering, IIRC.
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Originally Posted by Mycroft
The real problem with the Peregrine was the development of the Merlin, which rapidly took over all the facilities at Derby and other RR plants, and as the Whirlwind was the only Peregrine-engined production a/c it was decided to cease production in 1942 after production of 301. With a the exception of a couple of development prototypes all Vulture production (538 in all) was used for the Manchester. The Vulture at 1,800 hp was comparable to the slightly later Griffin II but was much bulkier and had teething problems with the coolant system (it was treated as two seperate systems for the the cylinder blocks, but as the sytems were interconnected there could be cavitation problems).
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There's a feature on the Whirlwind in this month's 'Aeroplane' mag.
It also explains the 'crikey' nickname as being taken from an advert for err, something car-related of the time (senile at 30 , OMG. I only read it yesterday!)
It also explains the 'crikey' nickname as being taken from an advert for err, something car-related of the time (senile at 30 , OMG. I only read it yesterday!)
Gnome de PPRuNe
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You wait until you get to the grand old age of 42 - you don't even remember that there is an article on the Whirlwind in this month's AM, let alone what it says! Not till you reminded me anyway...
Not till you reminded me anyway...
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Westland Whirlwind Fighter P.R.O. Files...
Have any of the Whirly buffs out there seen or have in their possession the following files and if they do, can they tell me weather they would contain information/drawings that would be useful to build an accurate 3D CG Flying Model.
I already have the complete AP1709A Vol's and the Roll-Royce ‘Peregrine’ AP from R-R Derby.
This is some of the information I need:
Performance charts & tables (speed, climb, maneuver etc) for 87 Octane and 100 Octane fuel & with bombloads.
Whirlybomber payload data. What sort of bombs etc.
Cockpit Blueprints and Photo’s, Instruments used etc. (Important must have...
)
Aircraft Production Drawings… (Another must have... )
If you have/know of any file that contain some of the above, could you let me know their source and file number/ref so I might obtain them.
If you already have some of the data I need and would be willing to let me have scanned copies I would be willing to pay for them within reason.
Thank you for any help.
Here you go:
Ministry of Aircraft Production and predecessor and successors: Registered Files AVIA 15/317 AIRCRAFT: Design and Development: Fighters and Fighter-Bombers (Code 6/3): Proposals for development of Westland Whirlwind fighter . AIRCRAFT: Design and Development: Fighters and Fighter-Bombers (Code 6/3): Proposals for development of Westland WhirlwindDate: 1940.
Ministry of Defence and predecessors: Air Publications and Reports AIR 10/2643 The Whirlwind I Aeroplane: Two Peregrine I Engines . The Whirlwind I Aeroplane: Two Peregrine I Engines Ministry of Defence and predecessors: Air Publications and Reports The National Archives, KewDate: 1940.
Ministry of Supply: Establishment, Registered Files (Series 1) AVIA 46/122 Westland Whirlwind . Westland Whirlwind Ministry of Supply: Establishment, Registered Files (Series 1) The National Archives, KewDate range: 1935 - 1943.
(This I have already ordered )
Air Ministry and successors: Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment: Reports and Notes AVIA 18/691 Whirlwind aircraft: performance and handling trials . Whirlwind aircraft: performance and handling trials Air Ministry and successors: Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment: Reports and Notes The National Archives, KewDate range: 1940 - 1942.
(Not sure of exactly what Photo’s it contains?
)
Ministry of Information and Central Office of Information: Publications Division: Photographs INF 14/8 Whirlwind . Whirlwind Ministry of Information and Central Office of Information: Publications Division: Photographs The National Archives, KewDate range: 1939 - 1979.
Air Ministry: Fighter Command: Registered Files AIR 16/326 Westland P9 Whirlwind aircraft . Westland P9 Whirlwind aircraft Air Ministry: Fighter Command: Registered Files The National Archives, KewDate range: 1939 - 1942.
Air Ministry and Ministry of Defence: Registered Files AIR 2/2821 AIRCRAFT: Fighter (Code B, 5/6): Whirlwind single-engined single seater day and night fighter: specification F37/35 . AIRCRAFT: Fighter (Code B, 5/6): Whirlwind single-engined single seater day and night fighter: specification F37/35 Air Ministry andDate range: 1935 - 1944.
I already have the complete AP1709A Vol's and the Roll-Royce ‘Peregrine’ AP from R-R Derby.
This is some of the information I need:
Performance charts & tables (speed, climb, maneuver etc) for 87 Octane and 100 Octane fuel & with bombloads.
Whirlybomber payload data. What sort of bombs etc.
Cockpit Blueprints and Photo’s, Instruments used etc. (Important must have...
)Aircraft Production Drawings… (Another must have...
)If you have/know of any file that contain some of the above, could you let me know their source and file number/ref so I might obtain them.
If you already have some of the data I need and would be willing to let me have scanned copies I would be willing to pay for them within reason.
Thank you for any help.
Here you go:
Ministry of Aircraft Production and predecessor and successors: Registered Files AVIA 15/317 AIRCRAFT: Design and Development: Fighters and Fighter-Bombers (Code 6/3): Proposals for development of Westland Whirlwind fighter . AIRCRAFT: Design and Development: Fighters and Fighter-Bombers (Code 6/3): Proposals for development of Westland WhirlwindDate: 1940.
Ministry of Defence and predecessors: Air Publications and Reports AIR 10/2643 The Whirlwind I Aeroplane: Two Peregrine I Engines . The Whirlwind I Aeroplane: Two Peregrine I Engines Ministry of Defence and predecessors: Air Publications and Reports The National Archives, KewDate: 1940.
Ministry of Supply: Establishment, Registered Files (Series 1) AVIA 46/122 Westland Whirlwind . Westland Whirlwind Ministry of Supply: Establishment, Registered Files (Series 1) The National Archives, KewDate range: 1935 - 1943.
(This I have already ordered
)Air Ministry and successors: Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment: Reports and Notes AVIA 18/691 Whirlwind aircraft: performance and handling trials . Whirlwind aircraft: performance and handling trials Air Ministry and successors: Aeroplane and Armament Experimental Establishment: Reports and Notes The National Archives, KewDate range: 1940 - 1942.
(Not sure of exactly what Photo’s it contains?
)Ministry of Information and Central Office of Information: Publications Division: Photographs INF 14/8 Whirlwind . Whirlwind Ministry of Information and Central Office of Information: Publications Division: Photographs The National Archives, KewDate range: 1939 - 1979.
Air Ministry: Fighter Command: Registered Files AIR 16/326 Westland P9 Whirlwind aircraft . Westland P9 Whirlwind aircraft Air Ministry: Fighter Command: Registered Files The National Archives, KewDate range: 1939 - 1942.
Air Ministry and Ministry of Defence: Registered Files AIR 2/2821 AIRCRAFT: Fighter (Code B, 5/6): Whirlwind single-engined single seater day and night fighter: specification F37/35 . AIRCRAFT: Fighter (Code B, 5/6): Whirlwind single-engined single seater day and night fighter: specification F37/35 Air Ministry andDate range: 1935 - 1944.
Last edited by Mr BlueSky; 15th May 2006 at 22:11.
Gnome de PPRuNe
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Blimey, give them a chance Mr Bluesky! (Hello, Mr Blue, we're so glad to be with you, look around see what you do...! Sorry, I used to share a school dorm with an ELO fan - I have an aversion to ELO, he finds Pink Floyd irritating, what can I say... Tim, is that you?!! 
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Originally Posted by treadigraph
Blimey, give them a chance Mr Bluesky! (Hello, Mr Blue, we're so glad to be with you, look around see what you do...! Sorry, I used to share a school dorm with an ELO fan - I have an aversion to ELO, he finds Pink Floyd irritating, what can I say... Tim, is that you?!!
and MrBlueSky is the only ELO song that I ever liked... Give me Pink Floyd any day. ALTHOUGH... I was quite taken by Genesis and their 'A Trick of the Tail' Album... 
Then there was ELP and not forgetting Cat Stevens... 
Those were the days... Nope, shout, shout and shout again...
That's the only way to get things done...
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Westland Whirlwind Fighter Voltmeter identification needed…
A small group of us are trying to get as much information as we can to make an accurate (Photo realistic) 3D model of the Whirlwind cockpit. At present we’ve positively identified around 70% of the cockpits gauges, switches & controls, but because of the poor quality of existing photographic material some are proving difficult…
The two pictures below are the only images of the 40v Voltmeter used in the Whirlwind, we need to identify exactly what the type, make and AM Serial was... A clear photo/drawing of same would also be nice. c
Can anyone help us please…
In this Pilot's Note's Image the Voltmeter is to the right.
Regards
Mr BlueSky
The two pictures below are the only images of the 40v Voltmeter used in the Whirlwind, we need to identify exactly what the type, make and AM Serial was... A clear photo/drawing of same would also be nice. c
Can anyone help us please…
In this Pilot's Note's Image the Voltmeter is to the right.
Regards
Mr BlueSky