Short Belfast-why?

[JW411]

ExAscoteer:

Sorry, I was not aware that the RAF had any Hercules C.3s in 1976.

Herod:

Yes, we all had our bad days. I can remember one of our better times. We set up a slip pattern to reinforce Belize in November, 1975. Not a single Belfast went u/s. I personally did:

05.11.75 XR362 Brize - Gander (Slip)
08.11.75 XR365 Gander - Nassau (Slip)
09.11.75 XR371 Nassau - Belize - Nassau (Slip)
10.11.75 XR362 Nassau - Belize - Nassau (Slip)
12.11.75 XR366 Nassau - Bermuda - Brize (Home)

The loads consisted mainly of helicopters, ferret scout cars and (I think) a Harrier on its special cradle (fuselage with the one-piece wing set at an angle alongside).

You will be astonished to learn that Gander and Nassau were covered in sick C130s.

C'est la guerre!

[Herod]

JW,

Not surprised at all. I did a tour as an Ops Controller at Thorney, when it housed the Herc OCU. Too many times: cold, snowy winter's night. Call from Comcen ref priority message. Get dressed, de-ice car, drive to Comcen. C-130 tech down route, spares and delivery to organise. The galling thing was that the message usually ended "Captain contactable Castle Harbour Hotel, Bermuda"

[Fareastdriver]

There was a portable radar in Belize which came out in a Belfast. I don't know what happened to it when the Belfasts went because it was too big to go in a Hercules.

[Shackman]

There was a portable radar in Belize which came out in a Belfast. I don't know what happened to it when the Belfasts went because it was too big to go in a Hercules.

Was that No 1ACC - air portable so long as you had 16 Argosies (or may be just 1 Belfast) available. However, as it required so many air assets that when it was deployed in UK it (all) went by road from its base in East Anglia. I really would like to thank the planning team that sent it to Lossiemouth in the mid '70's on a Sunday at the start of the summer holidays. The (very long) convoy of Queen Mary's seemed to have a top speed of 20 mph - by the time it reached Aviemore going up the A9, which in those days was a fairly windy single carriage road, the traffic jam was back to Perth. It took me just over 14 hours to get back to Lossie as opposed to the normal 3 to 4 hours; I reached the front of the traffic jam, or the back of the rearmost Queen Mary, about 10 miles out from Lossie!

[Blacksheep]

particularly as they were scorned so widely in their RAF time.

As an example of the kind of thing that gave rise to the scorn of maintenance staff. The Belfast carried a spare battery. Because it wasn't used it had to be returned to the battery shop at one month intervals for topping charge and re-certification. The main batteries, being connected to the bus, received in-service charging so they were removed only once every three months. To replace the spare battery you had to remove the main batteries to get access.

That's just one example of the lack of attention to detail: there are hundreds more. Every aeroplane has its bad points, but despite its size and luxurious crew accommodations, the Belfast seemed to suffer from far more than its fair share of reliability and inaccessibility problems.

[Herod]

Hi Jenkins,
No you're right. A bit of old man's poetic licence perhaps. Cold though, and when woken at Xam it certainly felt snowy. Compared to Bermuda.

[wub]

Shackman: I think the radar deployed to Belize was a mobile AR1. There was one at Chivenor in the 70s, which I helped load into Belfast ‘Canopus’ on deployment to Germany.

[Downwind.Maddl-Land]

As an ex-OC Butcher Radar I can confirm that Belize's radar was an AR-1 (AT) for Air Transportable. However, it was pressed into service as an AD asset for compiling a Recognised Air Picture, conducting PIs and, on occasion, intercepting a certain DC-6 that would cut the corner of Belize's airspace to 'make a point'. We had 2 FCs on establishment to undertake these tasks.

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by wub

Shackman: I think the radar deployed to Belize was a mobile AR1. There was one at Chivenor in the 70s, which I helped load into Belfast ‘Canopus’ on deployment to Germany.

I don't recall a Belfast named Canopus - the RAF's had legendary names: Samson, Goliath, Pallas, Hector, Atlas, Heracles, Theseus, Spartacus, Ajax and Enceladus.

It was the Britannias that were named after heavenly bodies.

[brakedwell]

None of the RAF Britannias were called Canopus.

[Yellow Sun]

Canopus was the Boscombe Comet.

YS

[brakedwell]

Doesn’t count

[DaveReidUK]

Originally Posted by brakedwell

None of the RAF Britannias were called Canopus.

Wrong.

[Brian 48nav]

Just had a look at my copy of David Berry's book, 'The Whispering Giant in Uniform' and XN404 was given the name 'Canopus'.

[brakedwell]

Apologies, my error, 404 is missing from the XM496 website list. XN398 and XN404 were C2’s ordered by the Ministry of Supply, but transferred to the RAF instead of being leased to Charter Airlines for trooping contracts. I should have known that as I flew an awful lot of East and West Meds in those two.

[WIDN62]

Brakedwell.

There were 3 Mark 2 Britannias - XN392 was the other one.

[brakedwell]

Originally Posted by WIDN62

Brakedwell.

There were 3 Mark 2 Britannias - XN392 was the other one.

Of course, I must be getting old

[wub]

Originally Posted by brakedwell

None of the RAF Britannias were called Canopus.

I must be getting old too

[dixi188]

DaveReidUK
Is that photo of XN404 at Hurn?
I think it might be outside Shackleton Aviation's hangar with the ex Zambian Airways DC-8 behind, about 1976.

[brakedwell]

Originally Posted by ICM

Evidence of how overall performance remained on the edge can be seen in the fact that Bahrain - Akrotiri, essentially an airways route, was accepted at the time as a valid Nav Route Check route. The two major issues I recall were, first, making net Safety Height on climb-out by the time one got to the mountains in Southern Iran, across the Gulf; and, later, dealing with a simulated three-engine driftdown and diversion once over Eastern Turkey. An entry in my Cat Card for 17 Jun 70 tells me I must have cracked it that day! (I only flew the fastback aircraft, doing the first or second OCU course once training was resumed in 1969, and I shudder to think how things had been beforehand.)

Thanks for explaining why our Britannia was able to carry the combined loads of two pre-GT Belfasts from Bahrain to Akrotiri. It would have been too complicated for my tiny (pilot's) mind.